Toward a MANLY Spirituality

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Fidelis

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A recent thread on Fr. Richard Rohr and his (literally) touchly-feely approach to men’s spirituality got me thinking. I know this was the topic of a thread long ago, but I thought it worth bringing up again.

What can we as Catholics do to make the Faith more appealing to Catholic men? How do we get them to Mass on Sunday and become more active in parish ministries where mostly women (God bless them!) have taken on the lion’s share of the work? How can we end the cycle of children (especially boys) not seeing their father’s taking a leadership role in passing on the Faith, and thus not practicing or passing on the Faith when they become parents themselves?
 
Fidelis said:
What can we as Catholics do to make the Faith more appealing to Catholic men? How do we get them to Mass on Sunday and become more active in parish ministries where mostly women (God bless them!) have taken on the lion’s share of the work? How can we end the cycle of children (especially boys) not seeing their father’s taking a leadership role in passing on the Faith, and thus not practicing or passing on the Faith when they become parents themselves?
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As I mentioned before, check out catholicmensresources.org. It seems to answer some of your (our) questions.

:blessyou:
 
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Fidelis:
What can we as Catholics do to make the Faith more appealing to Catholic men?

Stop the “obligatory” hand-holding during the Our Father.

Allow any music by OCP or GIA to find it’s way to the burning barrel. (Parish BBQ!!!) Bring back the hymns with profound lyrics (and get an organist who doesn’t play so slow or lifeless that you wonder if they’re about to die)

Form a men’s schola.

Start a parish bowling league. Maybe in the warmer months, someone could get a group of men from the parish to play men’s softball once a month or something.

At parish organization meetings, sit classroom style rather than in a circle- men tend to prefer to observe things from a distance, and will share when they are comfortable and feel they have something to say. Certain seating arrangements are uncomfortable because they force participation.

Either eliminate the sign of peace, or somehow make people understand that a polite handshake is enough.

Become priests and deacons who preach on the tough stuff (this one applies to men only).

Bring back Holy Name Societies, and other sodalities- and make them stand for what they are supposed to stand for.

Promote the Knights of Columbus (not councils that involve little more than drinking, cussing and telling dirty jokes- we do NOT need those, but councils that actively promote the Faith, and strengthen the faith of the members). Preferably, KofC councils should be parish-based.

Work to have men’s retreats established both on the parish and the diocesan level (multiple times).

How do we get them to Mass on Sunday and become more active in parish ministries where mostly women (God bless them!) have taken on the lion’s share of the work?

Regularly have men’s bible studies, prayer breakfasts, and other spiritual formation groups for men.

Befriend other men in the parish.
How can we end the cycle of children (especially boys) not seeing their father’s taking a leadership role in passing on the Faith, and thus not practicing or passing on the Faith when they become parents themselves?
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Be strong in your faith. Don’t just follow the catechism or the rubrics of the Mass (of course follow them, but don’t stop there)- make your faith- the part of your faith that no theologian can teach you- the center of who you are.
 
I agree with the above poster. So much of the Liturgical music I’ve experienced seems geared toward a white, middle class, middle age, feminine aesthetic. I sing along with the hymns for the sake of unity, but I struggle, and often find myself internally wincing and externally blushing at how cheesy the music can be. I think it keeps a lot of guys my age away because it fails to express the gravity and the seriousness of what is mystically happening during the Holy Mass.
 
So much of the Liturgical music I’ve experienced seems geared toward a white, middle class, middle age, feminine aesthetic.
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Well, speaking as a white, middle class, middle aged female, I loathe and detest much of the “contemporary” music of which you speak.

Bleach. (where’s the vomit smiley when I need it?) And before you flame, I said “much” not “all.”

IMO, the music is actually written by white, middle class, middle aged “alan alda of the 1970s feminism” girlie-men and is meant to be seen as diverse, classless (in the sense of transcending class though certainly it is classless in the other sense too 😃 ), ageless, and genderless.

It’s fake and phony and that’s why it grates. Putting in ‘ethnic’ words or rhythms, forcing an equality that doesn’t and shouldn’t exist, etc. and pandering to what was felt ‘relevant’ in the glory days of the 60s and trying to force it down as being “church music”. . .still doesn’t make it sacred.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Well, speaking as a white, middle class, middle aged female, I loathe and detest much of the “contemporary” music of which you speak.

Bleach. (where’s the vomit smiley when I need it?) And before you flame, I said “much” not “all.”

IMO, the music is actually written by white, middle class, middle aged “alan alda of the 1970s feminism” girlie-men and is meant to be seen as diverse, classless (in the sense of transcending class though certainly it is classless in the other sense too 😃 ), ageless, and genderless.

It’s fake and phony and that’s why it grates. Putting in ‘ethnic’ words or rhythms, forcing an equality that doesn’t and shouldn’t exist, etc. and pandering to what was felt ‘relevant’ in the glory days of the 60s and trying to force it down as being “church music”. . .still doesn’t make it sacred.
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You’re right. I’m sorry, my statement did come across as sexist and racist. Forgive my insensitive blanket statement. I didn’t intend it that way.

Also, I didn’t mean to say “all” the music either. But in my case I would definitely say “most”. :o
 
Actually, I didn’t see the statement as sexist or racist. 🙂

Indeed, it is quite possible that many of the people in the 70s (especially women) were dissatisfied with themselves and felt angsty guilt and thus wanted to prove that they were ‘inclusive’. I know people who were that age and younger in that era and who went all out to deny themselves. White, but wearing corn rows and decorating “African”; or middle class and being the first to tear down anything old or beautiful as being “snobby” or “western” or “privileged” and pretending that cheap flannel or crayon stick figure drawings were more acceptable in worship as being more ‘real’ . Hee-Haw meets the sanctuary . . .

This whole thing was played into by the “liturgists” and especially by the musicians. Honestly, the only difference between the protest songs/folk songs of the 60s and most of the liturgical songs of the past 3 decades is that fewer people have heard the folk songs and more people feel free to dislike the folk songs! (And sadly, a lot of the folk songs were better written and certainly better sung).
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Actually, I didn’t see the statement as sexist or racist. 🙂

Indeed, it is quite possible that many of the people in the 70s (especially women) were dissatisfied with themselves and felt angsty guilt and thus wanted to prove that they were ‘inclusive’. I know people who were that age and younger in that era and who went all out to deny themselves. White, but wearing corn rows and decorating “African”; or middle class and being the first to tear down anything old or beautiful as being “snobby” or “western” or “privileged” and pretending that cheap flannel or crayon stick figure drawings were more acceptable in worship as being more ‘real’ . Hee-Haw meets the sanctuary . . .

This whole thing was played into by the “liturgists” and especially by the musicians. Honestly, the only difference between the protest songs/folk songs of the 60s and most of the liturgical songs of the past 3 decades is that fewer people have heard the folk songs and more people feel free to dislike the folk songs! (And sadly, a lot of the folk songs were better written and certainly better sung).
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Thanks for your insights. Let’s just keep praying things will change further.
😉
 
We can pass the word on to men that they poses much of the responsibilty of the eternal life of thier children.

Any loving father would gladly fight a lion barehanded to keep thier children from feeling any pain. Yet they only think of the infintesimally small period of time thier children are on earth and not thier childrens eternity.

Fact is very few people think of eternal life outside when they are directly faced with it by the passing of a loved one. Once the wake and funeral are over it’s back to business as usual.

This FACT (can’t emphasize it enough, it is a fact…the people who visit these forums are the vast minority) I must admit hinders my own faith a great deal.

If there is a God, why, does the vast majority of people not care? Why does God allow it?
 
I surfed into this article by ‘accident’ & immediately thought of this thread.
It’s lengthy, but worth a read for those interested in the topic.

Friendship: The Key to the Evangelization of Men by Fr. John McCloskey
…Suddenly, as I reflected on my observations, there came to my mind a suspicion that there is a heretofore-undiagnosed disease common among American men–a disease that could be responsible in part for some of our societal ills, and could even be a grave deterrent to an effective new evangelization in our country. I have named this disease the Friendship Deficit Syndrome (FDS).

The purpose of this essay is twofold. Firsts I mean to describe some of the causes and symptoms of the syndrome, and offer some possible therapy. Second, I hope to offer some background on the importance of friendship, both human and supernatural, as a principal means of spreading the Gospel of Christ. We need to work out a new and better approach to developing friendships in America: an approach that is precisely American and respects the strength of American culture. This article is meant to provoke the reader to offer his own suggestions and solutions, because I believe we Americans are all facing a serious problem…
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Wow. I totally agree with much of what has been said so far. After all, manly priests will surely attract manly men.

In my opinion, Gregorian chant could actually be viewed as a very masculine type of music. The style and so forth definitely makes one think of monks and giant beautiful cathedrals. But I’m just not quite sure *why *chant seems so masculine…
 
Ace86 said:
Wow. I totally agree with much of what has been said so far. After all, manly priests will surely attract manly men.

In my opinion, Gregorian chant could actually be viewed as a very masculine type of music. The style and so forth definitely makes one think of monks and giant beautiful cathedrals. But I’m just not quite sure *why *chant seems so masculine…
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Because Jesus Christ is masculine, and chant (when done well), raises one’s thoughts to Him and the solemnity of His mysteries.

Solemnity is the key to manly spirituality, NOT sappiness!
 
For starters, show a little respect to men. if a man speaks up from a manly perspective, don’t put him down or marginalize what he has to offer. Too often I think men don’t say or do things because they know well that they’ll essentially just get scolded to “sit down and shut up!” If men don’t believe that what they have to offer is going to be respected, then they won’t bother or feel comfortable doing what they inately know ought be done.

Not that it would solve any problems, but I’d really like to see the Church take up this issue at some sort of high level; whether that be national bishops’ conferences or even the papal synods. Can’t we at least admit to the problem and recognize the concerns at play rather than just ignoring them and whining that “men don’t do faith”? It isn’t true. It’s just that the Church in our time too often doesn’t seem to want true “men of faith”.
 
I love this thread! My poor husband has tried so hard to sing along at mass but the music is horrid and so high pitched to boot. I can’t sing alot of it either because I am an alto. Recently our parish got more men to join the choir and this forced the choir director to move onto music more suited for male voices and that has helped a bit… long way to go yet though. I found that men that join K of C in parishes that are very active tend to hang together and if one becomes a lector…more follow. This goes for Extrordinary Ministers of the Eucharist, ushers, etc. We are lucky that in our parish we have alot of opportunties for the men to do things together. We are now trying to foster this in the boys with the Squires. Unfortunately, they have good years then bad, then good… membership is very up and down. I wish we could figure it out because at one point we had the largest group of squires in the midwest.

I also wish we had less women volunteer for some of these things. The pastor doesn’t want to turn anyone down for service so he allows all who volunteer to serve. How do you get men back into the majority? One man at a time I guess.

Most of our K of C men are buddies. They hang together at church functions, but they also socialize on their own. My theory is that these men have more in common than their own co-workers. With all the secular anti christian sentiment in the work place, I think men are more willing to make friends from a group like this than hang with their co-workers. My husband gets really discouraged at work functions or parties because alot of the guys there are so hedonistic it bugs him. He would rather hang out with the husbands of my gf’s (kid’s friends moms) than with most other males he knows, at least they have more in common…Catholic, family men, have kids the same ages…

I think in society women are the socializers, they are the ones that keep in touch with family more, maintain the social calendar for the couple. But this may put men in a position where they feel like their male bonding has to take a backseat to other social obligations the wife has made. If women kept this in mind, maybe we could schedule more activities with men that our husbands can identify with… strong Catholic family men.
 
DesertBrother said:
I agree with the above poster. So much of the Liturgical music I’ve experienced seems geared toward a white, middle class, middle age, feminine aesthetic. I sing along with the hymns for the sake of unity, but I struggle, and often find myself internally wincing and externally blushing at how cheesy the music can be. I think it keeps a lot of guys my age away because it fails to express the gravity and the seriousness of what is mystically happening during the Holy Mass.
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Agreed. I’d rather have something loud and majestic, or awesome like the “Otche Nash/Pater Noster” sung by The Sixteen (directed by Harry Christophers…if you have iTunes access or can find the CD, BUY THE SONG!!) It is sooooo amazing!!! You just want to fall on your knees in worship!
 
One thing I’ve long thought would be beneficial is to have a parish-based conference or seminar which teaches men --SHOWS men – how to be spiritual heads of their families. Let’s face it – men have been MIA for so long, we don’t have any idea on what it even looks like, let alone how to be one.

Some things that could be covered might be how to:
  • Lead grace before meals
  • Leading the family in devotions, especially the Rosary
  • Working with the wife to establish familiy religious traditions special to their family.
  • Taking the initiative to get the family to Mass every Sunday, and prepare for the Sacraments, including Confession.
  • Teach the children the basics of the Faith, including love of the Scriptures. Provide some catechetical models and recommended materials.
  • Being a model of Christian manliness, including the importance of personal holiness, selflessness, and integrity.
The home is the domestic Church. If children don’t learn it there, it’s likely they’ll never learn it. If Dad is a slacker in this area, so will the kids. Both girls and boys need to see this model – boys how to be a spiritual head of the familiy, and girls to be able to know one when she sees one.
 
Try bringing Christ Renews His Parish to your parish for men and women. It begins with a weekend retreat (single sex) given by a team of lay people with masses and confessions by the priest. It continues with weekly meetings for history and faith sharing and more spiritual formation. Participants have a spiritual director who guides the team. They go through a discernment process to find their ministries. The team then gives the next retreat 6 months later to continue the process.

Our parish has a huge number of active men who participate and start ministries, serve at and attend Sunday and daily masses (sometimes with their CRHP brothers), etc. I think men enjoy the team nature of CRHP. They get to bond with a group of 19-36 men (depending on the size of the parish) in a non-threatening atmosphere (no women to impress or worry about and confidentiality for all that is shared).

We have had this formation process for over 10 years, so there is also the allure of what seems almost like a cool “secret” club with matching team shirts. Believe it or not that is what draws some men to the initial retreat. Some have also been cajoled or “dragged” into attending with a more spiritual brother-in-law or friend. Whatever works to get them there IMO. The goal of CRHP is to kick start a person’s spiritual life, help them discern their gifts and then get them active to “renew” their parish (or their own family).

We have men who have become more active in their spiritual life (and hence the church) by participating in less spiritually oriented things at the parish like our annual carnival or our many softball teams. The more men you get active for whatever reason, the more “manly” the life of the parish becomes without conscious effort.
 
Our diocese has an annual “Catholic Mens Conference.”
It started out with some grumbling from various individuals, but it grew to be so large, they had to rent a large convention center.

I’ve never been, because I’m on retreat that week-end, but the men in my parish go and started a men’s club, which seems to benefit many of the men of our parish.

Also, I’ve been going on annual men’s retreats for over 25 years. It’s a great place to go for fellowship with men.

However, I’m a member of the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites, and for many years, I was the only man in our community, other than the spiritual assistant who is an OCD priest. I’ve not had a real issue because for me, spirituality is not gender specific IMHO.

Jim
 
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