Toxic Parents of my GF

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I read a good bit of the other thread.

Maybe I missed it because I didn’t read every post, but do you love her? Do you respect her? It does not seem so.

I am not sure why you don’t break up. It’s really not supposed to be this difficult to meet, date, get engaged, and marry. The fact that it is for the two of you probably means that you are not meant for each other.
 
I read a good bit of the other thread.

**Maybe I missed it because I didn’t read every post, but do you love her? Do you respect her? It does not seem so.
**
I am not sure why you don’t break up. It’s really not supposed to be this difficult to meet, date, get engaged, and marry. The fact that it is for the two of you probably means that you are not meant for each other.
Yes.

You guys are not in some sort of endangered species breeding program. There are other nice Catholic people on the North American continent.

If you aren’t crazy about this young woman, let her go.
 
Also, don’t make the mistake of seeing DRAMA as true love.

Drama is drama.

You gotta lotta drama in this situation. Let it blow away and look at your actual relationship. Do you adore this woman? Does she adore you? Do you respect her? Does she respect you? If the answer to any of these questions is no, keep on walking.
 
I will remember that.

I know they’re imperfect, and I know people aren’t around forever.

But, ugly first and second impressions worry me. Perhaps a third is needed? It seems as though they’ve tried to make their message clear to me - don’t talk to us.
People say you marry the whole family and you do, but the relationship that ought to concern you most is that between you and the woman you are building a relationship with.

Don’t expect them to get better. This is a durable pattern of behavior. It is not isolated in time and it is not isolated towards you. They don’t do this nasty thing to prospective in-laws but then ease up. The way they are treating you now is what they do, they didn’t stop even when it cost them their relationship with another daughter, and the chances are the highest that their future will be like their past.

The bigger question is whether this woman you are courting puts a higher priority on maintaining a relationship with her parents that is toxic and does it at your expense. If she allows her parents to walk on her, even if she doesn’t allow them to walk on you, don’t accept that. Who could love her and who could even love her parents and accept that? *“If I have spoken wrongly, testify to the wrong; but if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?” *(John 18:23) Of course, you should expect that your spouse-to-be will defend you, too. Don’t negotiate on that out of some false humility. Accepting abuse without trying to correct it is not love. When someone expects you to take abuse with no prospect of seeking protection from you from it, that is not love, either. Marriage requires the capacity for mutual, exclusive, and sacrificial love. Don’t attempt marriage without it.
 
People say you marry the whole family and you do, but the relationship that ought to concern you most is that between you and the woman you are building a relationship with.

Don’t expect them to get better. This is a durable pattern of behavior. It is not isolated in time and it is not isolated towards you. They don’t do this nasty thing to prospective in-laws but then ease up. The way they are treating you now is what they do, they didn’t stop even when it cost them their relationship with another daughter, and the chances are the highest that their future will be like their past.

The bigger question is whether this woman you are courting puts a higher priority on maintaining a relationship with her parents that is toxic and does it at your expense. If she allows her parents to walk on her, even if she doesn’t allow them to walk on you, don’t accept that. Who could love her and who could even love her parents and accept that? *“If I have spoken wrongly, testify to the wrong; but if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?” *(John 18:23) Of course, you should expect that your spouse-to-be will defend you, too. Don’t negotiate on that out of some false humility. Accepting abuse without trying to correct it is not love. When someone expects you to take abuse with no prospect of seeking protection from you from it, that is not love, either. Marriage requires the capacity for mutual, exclusive, and sacrificial love. Don’t attempt marriage without it.
Thank you, EasterJoy, plus others for the replies.

My GF called her mother to speak with her twice about her behavior this past weekend.

Her mother would then produce an abrupt excuse and quickly get off the phone.

My girlfriend told me this late last night, in a very cheerful manner.
 
Thank you, EasterJoy, plus others for the replies.

My GF called her mother to speak with her twice about her behavior this past weekend.

Her mother would then produce an abrupt excuse and quickly get off the phone.

My girlfriend told me this late last night, in a very cheerful manner.
Good!
 
I don’t think that is good.

She calls her mother, who basically blows her off. Instead of her expressing anger, disappointment, resentment, or any number of other negative reactions, she is cheerful?

No, this is just not right. This girl does not really see that what her mother did to her is wrong either. The mom gets another free pass. It sounds like the only only reason she is saying anything at all to the mom is because the OP is so offended, not because **she ** is offended. Remember, initially, she was offended that he was offended.
 
Other people seem to know your other posts, whereas I’m not familiar with them, so perhaps I am missing some history. But as I read this post, I keep coming back to the fact that children tend to grow up to be like their parents. Obviously not carbon copies, and obviously there are exceptions. But it is the general rule from which exceptions vary. I have seen that happen in various ways in my own life. I grew up watching my own parents do or say things that I think they shouldn’t, and even into adulthood, I always maintained that it was wrong. And yet, multiple times I have found myself doing/saying the same things. The fact is that it is hard to abandon what we have been taught for all of our lives, even when we know we should. And by taught, I mean taught by example. When you recognize something as wrong, and serious, you are more likely to make every effort (and it might take a lot of effort) not to be that way yourself. If you are always excusing the bad behavior and are not all that critical of the character flaws, you might be more likely to slip into those behavior patterns yourself someday. So my question to you is: has your girlfriend shown evidence, and has she made you confident that it is important to her not to have these same faults and not to be like that herself? Because if she grew up in that environment, and if she is still not that bothered by it, I would be concerned about her own character - you can avoid her parents, but you won’t be able to avoid your wife, and I’m sure you want to have children grow up with parents who are loving and not toxic to them. Just another angle to consider. Are you looking into your future with her, when you look at her parents?
 
I don’t think that is good.

She calls her mother, who basically blows her off. Instead of her expressing anger, disappointment, resentment, or any number of other negative reactions, she is cheerful?

No, this is just not right. This girl does not really see that what her mother did to her is wrong either. The mom gets another free pass. It sounds like the only only reason she is saying anything at all to the mom is because the OP is so offended, not because **she ** is offended. Remember, initially, she was offended that he was offended.
There are different ways to cope with a parent like this. One is to interpret them differently than a normal person would. Sometimes, you have seen so much from one person that you just let it roll off of you. Some of the children may have learned the “you have to laugh, or you’ll cry” strategy. It isn’t as if walking out was an option when they were kids.
Other people seem to know your other posts, whereas I’m not familiar with them, so perhaps I am missing some history. But as I read this post, I keep coming back to the fact that children tend to grow up to be like their parents. Obviously not carbon copies, and obviously there are exceptions. But it is the general rule from which exceptions vary. I have seen that happen in various ways in my own life. I grew up watching my own parents do or say things that I think they shouldn’t, and even into adulthood, I always maintained that it was wrong. And yet, multiple times I have found myself doing/saying the same things. The fact is that it is hard to abandon what we have been taught for all of our lives, even when we know we should. And by taught, I mean taught by example. When you recognize something as wrong, and serious, you are more likely to make every effort (and it might take a lot of effort) not to be that way yourself. If you are always excusing the bad behavior and are not all that critical of the character flaws, you might be more likely to slip into those behavior patterns yourself someday. So my question to you is: has your girlfriend shown evidence, and has she made you confident that it is important to her not to have these same faults and not to be like that herself? Because if she grew up in that environment, and if she is still not that bothered by it, I would be concerned about her own character - you can avoid her parents, but you won’t be able to avoid your wife, and I’m sure you want to have children grow up with parents who are loving and not toxic to them. Just another angle to consider. Are you looking into your future with her, when you look at her parents?
Children do not necessarily grow up to be like their parents, but they usually do grow up to reflect the soil they grew up in. In my experience, the children in a family with a out-of-bounds parent do not all grow up to take on the same traits. One or two will do that, but the others will grow up with some coping mechanism as a result of the treatment. That might show up with being overly anxious to please, or else taking great pains to cover up bad behavior because of what other people will think because their parents never did, or else having an astonishing capacity to ignore bullies and the consequences they deal out for non-compliance, or else just not worrying one bit about people getting upset about anything.

I would guess that this girlfriend is on board with the “gallows humor, make a joke of it and let it pass” strategy. She needs to understand that this only works when you only have yourself to worry about. A woman who doesn’t enforce consequences when her mother abuses her boyfriend is not likely to enforce consequences when her mother does the same to her children or when other people inflict similar abuse on her family. It is the “what rain? we’re not made of sugar” defense.

Remember, she grew up not being able to defend herself from this directly. She couldn’t walk out. That wasn’t an option. She might have found, however, that her mother didn’t pick her as a target when she neither fought back nor ran. She may have found that if she didn’t give a reaction she wasn’t a very satisfying target for a drama queen. It would have made the dramas aimed at her shorter and less intense. That meant, however, she had to learn to accept the drama (abuse is what they call it at other people’s houses) being visited on someone else, provided it wasn’t aimed at her.

I’d suggest the boyfriend draw a line in the sand. Either her mother stop being nasty towards him, or he leaves. Period. Otherwise, he can explain, he can look forward to having her do the same to his children, and he’s not going to allow that. To be frank, he also needs a wife to look towards his welfare. She doesn’t have to slay the dragon, but she does need to keep others safe from it.

It is good that the girlfriend made the phone call, but I’m concerned that she’s made this one weak effort under the “I can tell you what she’ll do” rationalization. When Mom does what is predicted, that is proof that the confrontation wasn’t worthwhile. The acid test is whether the daughter will respond appropriately to her mothers totally inappropriate choices. Many bad answers, a few acceptable ones, and no really good one that solves all the problems in one fell swoop. Press for success, but give her a little time to get there.
 
You have to ask yourself how important this girl is to you and if you can deal with this sort of treatment indefinitely. My in-laws treated me horribly while my wife and I were dating. Their behavior varied from domineering and controlling, to hateful and vindictive, to despicable and threatening. They treated my wife far worse, especially when I wasn’t around. When we confronted them they’d back down for a short time but they’d always get back to their old tricks. My wife was sure things would get better once we were married. Then she was sure it would get better after our first daughter was born. Then she was sure it would get better after our next was born, etc. Just remember that a tiger never changes its stripes and decide whether this is a situation you’re comfortable with.
 
It isn’t loving to enable others in their sin, and though your girlfriend doesn’t realize that this is what she is in effect doing, it is. Not to judge her harshly for it; as others have pointed out, she seems to have adopted a coping strategy of flying under the radar, and has seemingly numbed her own feelings as a protection to feeling the true hurtfulness of what the parents sling at her. She blows it off, laughs inappropriately like it’s a joke, but it’s not the least bit funny. It’s one of the patterns denial can take.

And the most loving thing you might be able to do for her, would be to put her true need for spiritual and emotional growth above any of your own interests at this point. It would be a heroic sacrifice for you, and painful, but she needs to work this out for herself if at all possible, before going forth into true adulthood. If she could, whether the two of you are meant to be or not, it would be a great gift to give her the chance. Pray about it.

So sorry you both are in this position of suffering. I’ll pray for you both, and for her family’s conversion.
 
It isn’t loving to enable others in their sin, and though your girlfriend doesn’t realize that this is what she is in effect doing, it is. Not to judge her harshly for it; as others have pointed out, she seems to have adopted a coping strategy of flying under the radar, and has seemingly numbed her own feelings as a protection to feeling the true hurtfulness of what the parents sling at her. She blows it off, laughs inappropriately like it’s a joke, but it’s not the least bit funny. It’s one of the patterns denial can take.

And the most loving thing you might be able to do for her, would be to put her true need for spiritual and emotional growth above any of your own interests at this point. It would be a heroic sacrifice for you, and painful, but she needs to work this out for herself if at all possible, before going forth into true adulthood. If she could, whether the two of you are meant to be or not, it would be a great gift to give her the chance. Pray about it.

So sorry you both are in this position of suffering. I’ll pray for you both, and for her family’s conversion.
This is powerful. Thank you.

He family is Catholic and her parents attend mass daily as well.
 
One of the most uncharitable people I know is a lector at mass. One’s mass attendance is no guarantee that they aren’t a heel.
 
We all have our baggage that operates below the surface despite our best intentions. It’s part of our fallen human nature. Pray that through their attendance at Mass and receiving of Jesus in the Eucharist, somehow God’s grace will touch their hearts deeply and awaken the better part of their souls, and that they will be receptive to the grace and open to the wisdom of the Holy Spirit. What better time than between Ascension and Pentecost to pray this! :yup:
 
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