Trade Unionism

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Good afternoon!

What is the teaching of the Church with regards to trade unionism? From my ill-educated position I can see good and bad- the original idea is very positive, a form of subsidiarity, but certainly in Britain the unions seem rampantly secular.

Should a Catholic join a trade union, or does this depend entirely on the union in question? If it does depend on the union, then what are the tests that should be applied before joining?
 
The Church teaches that workers should have the right to organize for thier protection and to avoid exploitation. So in that way, the Church is “pro” union.

On the other hand, the Church teaches that all people need to avoid material cooperation with evil. In the US, many of the big unions are also involved in social engineering activism and have unsavory associations - the teachers unions with Planned Parenthood, for example. Those should be avoided to the extent that they have gone beyond their role of protecting workers.
 
In the US, many of the big unions are also involved in social engineering activism and have unsavory associations - the teachers unions with Planned Parenthood, for example. Those should be avoided to the extent that they have gone beyond their role of protecting workers.
I am a brand new teacher in TX. Are there any organizations for pro life teachers? It just seems like such a contradiction that teachers would support organizations that seek to destroy their future students! I don’t plan on joining the union for that reason, but I am already getting pressure from other teachers. Any suggestions on how to diplomatically explain my reasons? Maybe adding a little bit in order to plant a seed in others?
 
The Church teaches that workers should have the right to organize for thier protection and to avoid exploitation. So in that way, the Church is “pro” union.

On the other hand, the Church teaches that all people need to avoid material cooperation with evil. In the US, many of the big unions are also involved in social engineering activism and have unsavory associations - the teachers unions with Planned Parenthood, for example. Those should be avoided to the extent that they have gone beyond their role of protecting workers.
That makes a lot of sense, thank you. Is there any definitive way to be sure if a particular union is acceptable? I would imagine these links are sometimes not that obvious.
 
Many years ago I was part of a company that unionized. At one point in the process I was vice-president, chief steward and negotiator all at the same time. We had our own local and unlike many other unions, we at the local level were in the driver’s seat. The business agent made it clear that the national union would back us up, whatever we decided at the local level as well as back us financially as we got started.

When we negotiated our first contract it was apparent to everyone that we had the power to put the employer (a private company) out of business. This also meant that we had the power to put ourselves out of work. This, to my mind, was the proper balance. Part of that balance was also the fact that our company was one of many in the same business. Any strike would be against the employer and not against any innocent bystander.

Philosophically we had to be able to accept that merit was out of the equation in a collective agreement, and we even began to police ourselves to some extent while in negotiations. In general meetings I remember appealing to the body of workers to take pride in themselves and their own work, not for the sake of the company, but for the sake of being able to hold their own heads up, as union members, as part of a brotherhood of men good at what they do and deserving of decent wages for it.

But it took some severe blows and cuts in pay for us to initially have the numbers to form the union, and the balance in the minds of the majority had to be that the sacrifice of individual merit and freedom for the collective was worth it. And that always has to be the calculation.

To some extent, there is a parallel between the necessity of unions and the necessity of something like the death penalty. What I mean is this. Unions are more of a last resort in impossible circumstances. There was a time when they was a widespread need for them, at the height of the industrial revolution. Because they fill a need to protect people who have very little power on their own, the Church teaches that there should be that right to organize. But like the Church teaches about capital punishment, I believe there is less and less need for unions, particularly in the private sector, as employers competing with each other for employees have become enlightened in large measure as to how to treat their people without being forced into it. And to give the unions their due, in large measure it was they that brought about the enlightenment.

The public sector is another matter altogether. Insofar as the government holds a monopoly on the services it provides to the public, there should be no legal right to strike for public sector unions. If it is law that kids must go to school, then teachers should have no right to shut that school down. If it is law that everyone should have a license plate on their vehicle, then emplyees at the DMV should not have the right to shut down that service. And so on. And in private sector companies that have been granted a monopoly by the government to provide a service, there should also be no right to strike.

Unless there is some financial or other price to pay for the kind of attitude I have seen in many unions (I’ve been to General Motors plants) then the balance is not there, and a union becomes no more than an extortion gang. That is why GM should have been allowed to fold a long time ago. There has to be a price to pay for the work ethic I have witnessed, in this case from the union shop right up through the management. They all created the mess and they all should have to bear the cost of it, not the general taxpayer. But we need to bear in mind that this situation was also enabled by a distortion in credit availability such that outrageous prices for cars did not stop the general public from buying and therefore efficiency was unnecessary in production. A direct parallel to the housing bubble.

In certain states, to take a particular job you must join the union. That does not mean that you are responsible for the organizations and causes that union supports. Feeding your family comes first and if taking the work means paying dues, Catholic moral teaching does not hold you responsible, unless there is a real choice of jobs available. Some unions in some jurisdictions allow you to direct your dues to a charity, instead of the union, if you object to that union’s use of your money. But in that case, if you find yourself behind the eight-ball, so to speak, don’t expect the union to come to your defence.

Sorry for rambling away from your question. Bottom line, where there is local control of the union, there is a better opportunity to change the local union. Where the national and international unions control everything that goes on, the local is just a pawn in the bigger game, just as it is in the case of governments. I’ve personally known people who have been threatened and had threats against their families for rocking the boat in the local union, against the wishes of the corrupt national union. That particular union I won’t name but it was renowned at that time for its corruption.
 
The Papal Encyclicals have endorsed the right to unionize, and I support their position on it.

However, it must be recognized that the decline of unionism in the U.S. has occurred in the face of the legal ability of workers to organize. So one has to give some credence to the possibility that the workers, who could vote for a union in secret balloting, often do not feel it is in their best interests to do so.

In Rerum Novarum, Pope Leo XIII urged the ready access of individuals to ownership of family farms. While there can still be some good to that, the time when any significant number of people could do with any decree of success it has diminished due to technological change. I doubt Pope Leo would now force people onto small farms, and Pope John Paul II acknowledged that other means of ownership of productive assets would now need to be considered, precisely because economies and agriculture have changed.

So, have unions seen the day pass when they really served a useful purpose for most? Seemingly it has, or more people would vote them in.

The current administration appears to want to eliminate secret balloting; a measure that would allow union organizers to harrass those who opposed unionization. To me, that would be like forcing half or more of the labor force onto 40 acre farms. The time in which either was the widespread answer has passed, and little good can come from trying to turn the clock back.
 
I am a college educated, professional woman, who has never belonged to a union in my life.

But I stand on the shoulders of men and women who organized and brought education and professionalism to their children. And we have the concept of a 40-hour-work-week and the reality of a weekend – work five days and take two off – thanks to unions. And we had the seeds of the modern civil rights movement sown thanks to workers like A. Philip Randolph who led the Pullman porters in their union. And we shut down sweatshops and passed child labor laws thanks to unions. And there are health benefits and sick days and medical leave, thanks to unions.

I have absolutely no illusions about the corruption and violence and problems and political stances that come with some unions. But my daddy poured concrete for a living so I could live the life I do – and it was a labor union that made it come to pass. So I don’t cross anyone’s picket line. Ever.
 
I am a college educated, professional woman, who has never belonged to a union in my life.

But I stand on the shoulders of men and women who organized and brought education and professionalism to their children. And we have the concept of a 40-hour-work-week and the reality of a weekend – work five days and take two off – thanks to unions. And we had the seeds of the modern civil rights movement sown thanks to workers like A. Philip Randolph who led the Pullman porters in their union. And we shut down sweatshops and passed child labor laws thanks to unions. And there are health benefits and sick days and medical leave, thanks to unions.

I have absolutely no illusions about the corruption and violence and problems and political stances that come with some unions. But my daddy poured concrete for a living so I could live the life I do – and it was a labor union that made it come to pass. So I don’t cross anyone’s picket line. Ever.
Well, my grandfather was a member of the Brotherhood of Railroad Engineers and I don’t doubt that union was a good thing in its time.

But you know, my mother was a teacher, non-union, and she had a 40 hour work week too. When I was growing up, no country school teachers were unionized and, if anything, their work-year was less burdensome than now. And, those jobs were some of the best paying jobs people could get at the time.

I do think unions were a very good thing in their heyday. I am not persuaded that they are now. I think perhaps unions were instrumental in getting a lot of labor laws passed. But I also think a lot of those laws now take the place of what the unions used to do.
 
Unions hurt their employees today. They harrass and intimidate their members if you dare question them. I am in a union in Chicago for 18 years.
 
Unions hurt their employees today. They harrass and intimidate their members if you dare question them. I am in a union in Chicago for 18 years.
Let’s not forget where the union dues go…in many cases they subsidize liberal candidates who support and push their liberal agendas, including gay marriage and abortion!
 
Let’s not forget where the union dues go…in many cases they subsidize liberal candidates who support and push their liberal agendas, including gay marriage and abortion!
Yeah! Excellent point Nancit!
 
The current administration appears to want to eliminate secret balloting; a measure that would allow union organizers to harass those who opposed unionization.
I think you are referring to the “Card Check” Bill, actually the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA), which will be going before Congress. The wording you are utilizing would be indicative of a Big Business or Corporate perspective. I stumbled upon a site that gives the Labor or Worker perspective:

organized-labor.webs.com/

I found the rebuttal to a mass mailing on this topic sent by Senator Jim DeMint on behalf of the National Right To Work Committee (NRTWC) very amusing:

organized-labor.webs.com/themailing.htm

God Bless
 
The Papal Encyclicals have endorsed the right to unionize, and I support their position on it.

However, it must be recognized that the decline of unionism in the U.S. has occurred in the face of the legal ability of workers to organize. So one has to give some credence to the possibility that the workers, who could vote for a union in secret balloting, often do not feel it is in their best interests to do so.

So, have unions seen the day pass when they really served a useful purpose for most? Seemingly it has, or more people would vote them in.
That, methinks, is the key question.

I guess the answer lies in whether or not, if one is deciding to joining a union, one is willing to participate in union activities that border on or are blatently immoral. Not to say all unions engage in corrupt activities at the level of the individual union member, but many do.

I was temporarily a member of a union while on a job on a break over school. The wages were pretty good. However, my job was to “guard” a locked, chained door at a convention. Not guard it from bad guys. Guard it from people trying to get into the convention rather than going through the other door. A hung curtain or a potted plant could have done my job. I felt like I was stealing. Other more experienced workers took way longer breaks than they were allowed. This was pretty much the norm.

I’m sure we’ve all heard about such gravy jobs or other ways that union employeed take advantage of their leverage as union members. Not that all do it or that all unions allow such behavior, but my point is to evaluate whether or not one wishes to take part is such things or be willing to be pressured to “go along” with such things if one is contemplating joining a union.

In our state, public school teachers are forbidden by law to strike. Yet they do it, with no consequeces. 🤷 They go to court, the judge says they have to go to work, and there’s not penalties. The kids lose out. The taxpayers lose out. 🤷
 
My wife works at a hospital and a local union is trying to unionize the workers there. We get promo materials all the time from the unionizing effort. Obviously, they know our name and address.

No way on earth should these people be given access to the results of my wife’s vote on the subject. That is pure gangster mentality. And this is not a “corporate America” outfit, it is a not for profit, faith based hospital system. This hospital system is quite alarmed about the push to remove secret balloting in unionizing votes. There is no legitimate reason to unionize there. Their pay is good and benefits are better than mine (though we don’t get those anymore since my wife now works small part time hours). Why would anyone in such circumstances vote ‘yea’ to giving up wages and losing the promotions based on performance system in favor of mere seniority??
 
My wife works at a hospital and a local union is trying to unionize the workers there. We get promo materials all the time from the unionizing effort. Obviously, they know our name and address.

No way on earth should these people be given access to the results of my wife’s vote on the subject. That is pure gangster mentality. And this is not a “corporate America” outfit, it is a not for profit, faith based hospital system. This hospital system is quite alarmed about the push to remove secret balloting in unionizing votes. There is no legitimate reason to unionize there. Their pay is good and benefits are better than mine (though we don’t get those anymore since my wife now works small part time hours). Why would anyone in such circumstances vote ‘yea’ to giving up wages and losing the promotions based on performance system in favor of mere seniority??
I agree.

The loss of the secrecy of the balloting screams intimidation and corruption. There is no reasonable argument for removing such secrecy.
 
I am a college educated, professional woman, who has never belonged to a union in my life.

But I stand on the shoulders of men and women who organized and brought education and professionalism to their children. And we have the concept of a 40-hour-work-week and the reality of a weekend – work five days and take two off – thanks to unions. And we had the seeds of the modern civil rights movement sown thanks to workers like A. Philip Randolph who led the Pullman porters in their union. And we shut down sweatshops and passed child labor laws thanks to unions. And there are health benefits and sick days and medical leave, thanks to unions.

I have absolutely no illusions about the corruption and violence and problems and political stances that come with some unions. But my daddy poured concrete for a living so I could live the life I do – and it was a labor union that made it come to pass. So I don’t cross anyone’s picket line. Ever.
Amen! My daddy worked on the automobile assembly lines in Detroit. Almost every accomplishment I have made in my life has its roots in my dad’s life as a union man. It was the union that made it possible for many of my cousins, aunts, uncles etc. to move from subsistence farming to a solid middle class way of life.Some of usin the next generation even got to go to college.
 
I don’t understand the mentality of “unions were good for grandpa, so they are good for me.”

Things change. Organizations change. Situations change. In the 1930’s I’d have been a died in the wool Democratic voter. My grandfolks sure were. Somewhere about 1973 they switched from being the party that championed the weak and the helpless to the party that considers killing the weak and helpless a “safe and legal choice.”

Don’t let the example become a tangent. My point is that while a group may have served a vital role in the past, you need to evaluate the value of the group based on its CURRENT behavior and principles.

Unions most likely still fulfill an important role in some industries. But they should only be valued when they serve the true interests of the workers. When and if they begin to shift to serve and protect the interests of the union bosses, they become outright harmful. Open your eyes and discern the difference TODAY, not in Grandpa’s age.
 
I am a brand new teacher in TX. Are there any organizations for pro life teachers? It just seems like such a contradiction that teachers would support organizations that seek to destroy their future students! I don’t plan on joining the union for that reason, but I am already getting pressure from other teachers. Any suggestions on how to diplomatically explain my reasons? Maybe adding a little bit in order to plant a seed in others?
I sympathize with your conundrum. I’m the union rep at my school. My union has saved my hind end on an occasion or two when parents make OUTRAGEOUS accusations by kids with mental problems, etc. Your union might save your job someday. And they are the ones going to bat fighting like mad to save your benefits and increase your pay. We need unions.

However, I agree that most teachers unions, because they are affiliated by and large with the NEA, are terribly pro-choice in their political contributions. They are also sympathetic to the gay ‘marriage’ agenda. This all sickens me. It’s a tough road. I think it’s healthy to join the union and make your voice heard at union meetings, when talking with your local leadership, writing to the magazines and literature editorial sections of your state union, and making it known to NEA, etc. that you’re pro-life and don’t like their endorsements.

But the fact remains that most unions are generally pro-Democrat because Dems are friendlier to unions than Republicans. That’s a no-brainer. But the moral side is where things are shoved to the side. I hate that. I understand their penchants for Dems but not their earnest and zealous desires to get gay marriages and planned parenthood’s purses lined? Makes me sick.

I totally understand your situation!! Fellow teacher here, sixth grade!👍
 
Good afternoon!

What is the teaching of the Church with regards to trade unionism? From my ill-educated position I can see good and bad- the original idea is very positive, a form of subsidiarity, but certainly in Britain the unions seem rampantly secular.

Should a Catholic join a trade union, or does this depend entirely on the union in question? If it does depend on the union, then what are the tests that should be applied before joining?
"http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0900492.htm
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POPE-LABOR Feb-2-2009 (320 words) xxxi

Pope says labor unions important in resolving financial crisis
 
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