Traditio website

[Adsum_Domini]

Pardon my ignorance in these matters, is this website in communion with Rome?

traditio.com/

I was reading thru it and I’m getting mixed signals?

I’m very interested in the Latin Mass but would I do not want to “break away” from the Vatican in the process.

 

[cam100]

Pardon my ignorance in these matters, is this website in communion with Rome?

traditio.com/

I was reading thru it and I’m getting mixed signals?

I’m very interested in the Latin Mass but would I do not want to “break away” from the Vatican in the process.

No, it is not in communion with Rome. It provides a directory of traditional latin masses that includes SSPX churches, sedevacantist churches, churches approved by the diocese, and others. The author’s viewpoint appears to be somewhat similar to the SSPX, although the website indicates that it not connected with the SSPX and does not agree with them in everything. If you are using the directory to locate a mass, you should be careful because the list doesn’t always indicate which churches are in communion with Rome and which are not. A better source for mass listings would be here: ecclesiadei.org/masses.cfm

 

[cathguy]

Pardon my ignorance in these matters, is this website in communion with Rome?

traditio.com/

I was reading thru it and I’m getting mixed signals?

I’m very interested in the Latin Mass but would I do not want to “break away” from the Vatican in the process.

I am a traditionalist who is as conservative as it gets.

AVOID this website. It has a deep schismatic spirit.

Thanks for posting your question!

 

[misterbee]

I would be wary while reading some parts of that site (particularly ‘Daily Commentary from the Fathers’) - the contributors to the site show a shocking lack of charity, indulge in calumny, and have a shocking disdain for the Vatican (‘Newchurch’ ‘Newrome’ ‘Newbishops’ ‘Newpope Benedict-Ratzinger’, etc.).

I’ve emailed them several times about a few items… they have completely made up stories - like Pope Benedict having his Gendarmerie chain nuns to a post - and sometimes just outright lie. They also have an unnatural fascination with Mel Gibson.

Read, but be wary.

 

[cathguy]

I would be wary while reading some parts of that site (particularly ‘Daily Commentary from the Fathers’) - the contributors to the site show a shocking lack of charity, indulge in calumny, and have a shocking disdain for the Vatican (‘Newchurch’ ‘Newrome’ ‘Newbishops’ ‘Newpope Benedict-Ratzinger’, etc.).

I’ve emailed them several times about a few items… they have completely made up stories - like Pope Benedict having his Gendarmerie chain nuns to a post - and sometimes just outright lie. They also have an unnatural fascination with Mel Gibson.

Read, but be wary.

First an apology, then a question:

First, I am hardly the sort of traditionalist who frequents SSPX chapels or denies the authority of Rome, but I have gotten beaten up pretty badly in these forums (although I am used to the tone people take with each other in here now).

SO, given the fact that you are a traditionalist, I want to first thank you for your zeal and apologize in advance if my question in any way offends.

However, my question is this: Given these SERIOUS problems with the website (which you recognize) why would you say “read and be wary” instead of “avoid?”

God bless!

 

[Adsum_Domini]

Thank you all for the quick replies. I did find the website to be a bit indirect and in some instances felt misguided. The reason I asked is that in my area, there’s a small church called St. Francis of Assisi (Van Nuys, CA) and they advertise that they only do the Latin Mass. In the end of their August newsletter found on their website, it states that they aren’t affiliated with the Archdiocese of Los Angeles and that’s where I started to ask questions. I’ve tried e-mailing them about their allegience but haven’t received a reply yet. This is their website:

www.sscr.org
or
www.saintfrancischapel.com

If you don’t mind looking at the website, I would appreciate your opinions.

Pax vobiscum.

 

[misterbee]

First an apology, then a question:

First, I am hardly the sort of traditionalist who frequents SSPX chapels or denies the authority of Rome, but I have gotten beaten up pretty badly in these forums (although I am used to the tone people take with each other in here now).

SO, given the fact that you are a traditionalist, I want to first thank you for your zeal and apologize in advance if my question in any way offends.

However, my question is this: Given these SERIOUS problems with the website (which you recognize) why would you say “read and be wary” instead of “avoid?”

God bless!

I say ‘read and be wary’ because I think it’s important that we, as humans, know all sides to issues - Fr. Moderator and his Traditio website is just another facet to the issue of Traditional Catholicism. A bad analogy (though apropos) would be that I, a staunch Conservative, read the dailykos.com and thinkprogress.org daily because I like to know what ‘the extremists’ are thinking.

However, if it leads you to sin (either through sedevacantist thinking or through an angry spirit), avoid it. I take breaks periodically when I start to get mad at what he says.

 

[cathguy]

Thank you all for the quick replies. I did find the website to be a bit indirect and in some instances felt misguided. The reason I asked is that in my area, there’s a small church called St. Francis of Assisi (Van Nuys, CA) and they advertise that they only do the Latin Mass. In the end of their August newsletter found on their website, it states that they aren’t affiliated with the Archdiocese of Los Angeles and that’s where I started to ask questions. I’ve tried e-mailing them about their allegience but haven’t received a reply yet. This is their website:

www.sscr.org
or
www.saintfrancischapel.com

If you don’t mind looking at the website, I would appreciate your opinions.

Pax vobiscum.

My opinion is that one ought to avoid any Catholic chapel that refers to itself as “independent.”

If it is SSPX you can fulfill your Sunday obligation there, but I would question the wisdom of this.

However, if it is sedevacantist you CANNOT and SHOULD not attend.

If it is EITHER sedevantist or SSPX, confessions heard there will be invalid, because to validly absolve a priest must have jurisdiction from the local ordinary.

No jurisdiction = no valid confessions and / or marriages.

If is sedevacantist you have NO WAY of knowing if the priest is even VALIDLY ORDAINED.

AVOID AVOID AVOID.

Let your pastor know that there is a “traditionalist” chapel in town that does NOT enjoy jurisdiction from Rome or the local ordinary. Explain the potential damage to traditional faithful and BEG for him to offer the TLM for the good of souls.

PRAY! This is serious stuff.

The website you mention says they are members of the society of Christ the King. I checked. This is NOT ICKSP! (Institute of Christ the King Supreme Priest… a traditional order in union with Rome. Nor are they FSSP, another traditional order in union with Rome.)

NOT GOOD.

 

[CTA1967]

If it is SSPX you can fulfill your Sunday obligation there, but I would question the wisdom of this.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=130857

 

[cathguy]

I say ‘read and be wary’ because I think it’s important that we, as humans, know all sides to issues - Fr. Moderator and his Traditio website is just another facet to the issue of Traditional Catholicism. A bad analogy (though apropos) would be that I, a staunch Conservative, read the dailykos.com and thinkprogress.org daily because I like to know what ‘the extremists’ are thinking.

However, if it leads you to sin (either through sedevacantist thinking or through an angry spirit), avoid it. I take breaks periodically when I start to get mad at what he says.

This is a very good explanation. Still… for me… I would find this too dangerous to read on more than one level.

I am prone to traditionalism (this is GOOD). However, I ONLY read faithful scholars who are loyal to Rome because I know that I would find schismatic traditionalist arguments attractive. This is especially true because, to be frank, there is a TON of ignorance out there from otherwise faithful Catholics who attack tradition. It is SO TEMPTING to just throw up one’s hands and walk away; join a group of like minded faithful behind the walls of a new ghetto.

The problem is, if such a course takes one away from the Bishop of Rome, that course will lead to error. (The SSPX’s arguments about a “spiritual Rome” are silly and find no support in the history of the Church)

If you can read that stuff without a) getting angry, and b) being tempted, then you are more man than I.

 

[cathguy]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=130857

To my understanding this link is incorrect. The issue has been examined recently by Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos and was examined on Fr. Z’s blog. Either Catholic Answers should update, or Cardinal Castrillon should clarify.

Oh… never mind…

The link the poster provided was just to another thread.

Still! I do NOT think it prudent to attend SSPX chapels. That should say it all.

God Bless!

 

[childofmary1143]

They also have an unnatural fascination with Mel Gibson.

I was directed to that sedevacantist website and this ‘fascination’ with Mel Gibson was something I observed too.

I think the fact that the Father(s) refuse to give their name speaks volumes.

 

[Adsum_Domini]

Hello,

Me again. I did get a return e-mail from www.sscr.org and this is what it says:

*Dear Sir:

Thank you for your kind e-mail. The Priestly Society of Christ the King (SSCR) is in full obedience to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, and His Holiness is prayed for in the Canon of each and every Holy Mass.

The canonical status of the Society (the clergy), not the faithful who attend Holy Mass, is in process with the Roman Congregations (which are currently on summer holiday until the fall). The lay faithful who attend Holy Mass at our Chapel (and other Mass Centres) indeed fulfil their Sunday obligation and are receiving legitimate and valid Sacraments.

If you have any additional questions, comments or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me - we can schedule a phone call or perhaps even a meeting. May Our Lord guide and bless you!

In Christ the King,

Monsignor +Thom JF Sebastian, sscr
Pastor*

…they seem sincere and I do really want to check this chapel out. But still, I wanted to see what you all think. Thanks again everyone!

AMDG

 

[misterbee]

From this website: end-times.com/conference.htm (I truncated part of the quote for space-sake).

'The Most Reverend Bishop Thom J.F. Sebastian, SSCR, is the Founder and Superior of the Priestly Society of Christ the King. The Society’s priest’s offer only the traditional (pre-Vatican II) Latin Mass… His Excellency accepted the burden of the Catholic Episcopacy and was Consecrated in Kent, England, on the Feast of Saint Matthew, 1997.

… It is his love of the Papacy and the true teachings of the Holy Fathers, the Popes, that fuel his courage to stand up against the modernist Bishops who claim to be Catholic, but who in reality have already entered into schism and formed the non-Catholic sect known as the “Vatican II Church.”’’

Also, search for ‘Thom Sebastion’ on this website: jloughnan.tripod.com/weave2.htm

And finally, just peruse some of the Google links to see what he says about himself and what others say about him: google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=Thom+JF+Sebastian%2C+sscr&btnG=Search

God bless!

 

[Adsum_Domini]

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I’m more confused now than ever because the Mosignor’s e-mail says his society is in full obedience to the Pope but looking on the internet, this person might also be schismatic. Usually confusion is a bad thing. hmmmm…

 

[GerardP]

Just a few points:

1) Traditio:

Traditio is outright hostile to the SSPX and virtually any good things that may come out of Rome. Fr. Moderator is not above stretching the truth to help his own cause for Independent Traditional Chapels. But he is not a sedevacantist.

**2) Sedevacantism: **

Sedevacantism is not a heresy. Until the Bishop of Rome declares it a heresy and condemns the teaching of St. Robt. Bellarmine and other great scholars, it’s not within the authority of any lay person, priest or bishop to declare it so.

**3) Schism: **

Schism is not disobedience. Schism is the refusal to acknowledge the fact of the Pope’s authority to govern the Church. It’s not saying, “He is the Pope, he does have the authority but I’m disobeying for this or that good or bad reason.” That is disobedience.

Schism is, “I’m not going to listen to the Pope because the Pope doesn’t have the authority to govern the Church.”

4) Confessions at SSPX or valid Independent Chapels:

Jurisdiction is required for the Church during the “normal” mode of the Church. We are not in the “normal” mode. We are in a time of emergency. Many people do not trust the pastoral advice or in some cases the validity of the orders of the priest, the form of absolution or any other number of factors that prevent the faithful from approaching their local diocesan Church.

Holy Mother Church provides the jurisdiction lacking in traditional priests who respond to the requests of the faithful in the emergency for their spiritual benefit. This reality is reflected in Canon Law. (Canon Law doesn’t grant the jurisdiction, it just describes the phenomena)

So one can go to the SSPX, SSPV or any validly ordained priest and request confession for their spiritual benefit.

 

[SenorSalsa]

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I’m more confused now than ever because the Mosignor’s e-mail says his society is in full obedience to the Pope but looking on the internet, this person might also be schismatic. Usually confusion is a bad thing. hmmmm…

I can’t rule on the status of that particular group, but I can say that even the SSPX like to claim how they pray for the Pope and his intentions at every Mass.

But then again, we also pray for the world leaders, and I certainly don’t feel any loyalty to most of them, nor do I agree with a lot of the stances most take.

My guess, because I am a trusting person, is that they probably are in an irregular stance right now, but like he said, they might be trying to regularize with the Vatican, much like the Transalpine Redemptorists/Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer recently did

 

[ProVobis]

My opinion is that one ought to avoid any Catholic chapel that refers to itself as “independent.”

In many cases, they (at least those listed on Fr Moderator’s list) do report to bishops who are in communion with Rome. The problem is that generally they run their chapels inside other bishops’ diocese and they generally aren’t given permission to hear confession or marry. You didn’t expect all bishops to get along with one another, did you?

 

[Mike_Searson]

Stay away from Traditio. There is strong doubt that Morrison is even a validly ordained priest.(if you were on his old mailing list, whenever someone asked that question…they were killfiled) I actually went to his “church” it’s a secular chapel in San Francisco where Buddhists, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus, or anyone can show up and worship (didn’t know he was so Eccumenical did you? ) , he has it locked down on Sunday mornings…or used to…I haven’t been in about 5 years. He has the Sede look down pat…ill-fitting Vestments bought at a thrift store or estate sale 40 years ago, unkempt hair, etc. (do all these Sedes avoid barbers as well?). He does have flawless Latin, though.

He’ll list indults from all over the country except the only Indult in the SF Bay Area because it would cost him half his “congregation” if they knew the truth.

 

[PrayforMallory]

Pardon my ignorance in these matters, is this website in communion with Rome?

traditio.com/

I was reading thru it and I’m getting mixed signals?

I’m very interested in the Latin Mass but would I do not want to “break away” from the Vatican in the process.

I ignore that site.

It’s almost providential the way things work out. The liberals have crazy puppet Masses to turn those with common sense away. The crazy traditional elements have weird takes on private revelation and other craziness that would drive out most sane people.