Tradition, Reform of the Reform, and Hispanic Catholics

[newyorkcatholic]

We are hearing wonderful news about the ever-increasing ability of the Extraordinary Form, and every day we hear of more parishes that are returning to tradition within the ordinary form (greater use of Latin, Gregorian Chant) – you know what I’m talking about.

So why does it seem none of this is happening at Masses in Spanish? (Or for the EF, Masses in which the homily is in Spanish etc.)?

Is it really that no Hispanic Catholics have an interest in Pope Benedict’s plan for a return to tradition? Or is there some sort of general feeling in some circles that less advantaged, immigrant populations aren’t a priority in this movement?

I love my Reform of the Reform parish (which has no masses in Spanish), but I also have strong ties to the Hispanic Community, and it saddens me that these two groups of people seem so far apart.

Even in New York City, I haven’t found one parish with a Mass for the Hispanic Community that also shows some sense of a return to tradition.

 

[tbtcom1213]

The Latin Mass is a great channel of faith which retains our faith, traditions, in one hour on Sunday. The Spanish Translation of the Liturgy is more accurate than the current english missal. However, my point is that Mass is Mass! Whether it be in sumerian, slavonic, ambrosian et cetera the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is there! Hoc est enim meum corpus et sanguinis calix! Jesus made himself available to us to save us to sanctify us and so on. Traditionalists aren’t better than those who attend Novus Ordo Mass. We are all Catholics and we all believe in Jesus and his bride the Church. In my opinion the Tridentine Mass and Pauline Mass (and other rome approved liturgies) are perfectly valid. As Christians we must stop sowing seeds of dissent and establish unity among one another. We must bring non-believers and lapsed believers into the church. Moving forward. As long as Catholics are at Mass they are okay. That is the problem. And it can be solved somehow… “Save the Liturgy…Save the World”

Introibo ad altare Dei ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam

 

[archangel04]

I attend spanish mass only because my family does. I would rather go to English especially if they use the organ. No matter what the main focus to be at mass is to be near our Lord. The style, music, and prayes are second to our Lord’s precense.

 

[peary]

We are hearing wonderful news about the ever-increasing ability of the Extraordinary Form, and every day we hear of more parishes that are returning to tradition within the ordinary form (greater use of Latin, Gregorian Chant) – you know what I’m talking about.

So why does it seem none of this is happening at Masses in Spanish? (Or for the EF, Masses in which the homily is in Spanish etc.)?

Is it really that no Hispanic Catholics have an interest in Pope Benedict’s plan for a return to tradition? Or is there some sort of general feeling in some circles that less advantaged, immigrant populations aren’t a priority in this movement?

I love my Reform of the Reform parish (which has no masses in Spanish), but I also have strong ties to the Hispanic Community, and it saddens me that these two groups of people seem so far apart.

Even in New York City, I haven’t found one parish with a Mass for the Hispanic Community that also shows some sense of a return to tradition.

Although hardly anyone goes to church in Europe anymore, in those communities that have members, there is a return to a traditional approach to the Liturgy, even in Spain.
I think it would be quite difficult to return to what was always understood as tradition in the Hispanic community in the Americas because of the bias against European ways. That is an historical fact. Once the Novus Ordo was launched in the Americas, they pretty much ended up developing their own style of worship without the albatross of Europe around the liturgical neck. What could happen is a return of kneeling and a balance between reception of the Eucharist on the tongue and in the hand. As for Latin or Gregorian chant, I don’t see that happening for quite awhile, if ever.

 

[Alex_Luciano]

newyorkcatholic
Tradition, Reform of the Reform, and Hispanic Catholics
We are hearing wonderful news about the ever-increasing ability of the Extraordinary Form, and every day we hear of more parishes that are returning to tradition within the ordinary form (greater use of Latin, Gregorian Chant) – you know what I’m talking about.

So why does it seem none of this is happening at Masses in Spanish? (Or for the EF, Masses in which the homily is in Spanish etc.)?

Is it really that no Hispanic Catholics have an interest in Pope Benedict’s plan for a return to tradition? Or is there some sort of general feeling in some circles that less advantaged, immigrant populations aren’t a priority in this movement?

I love my Reform of the Reform parish (which has no masses in Spanish), but I also have strong ties to the Hispanic Community, and it saddens me that these two groups of people seem so far apart.

Even in New York City, I haven’t found one parish with a Mass for the Hispanic Community that also shows some sense of a return to tradition.

I have, for some time, wondered the exact same thing. It seems like the movement for the EF is more prevalent in the U.S. and France than almost anywhere else. There are very few EF masses in Latin American or Spain so I would imagine that most immigrants from those countries aren’t even aware of its’ availability. I do have to say that Mass in Latin American countries tend to be more reverent and less “experimental” like they are here. That being said, the proliferation of Protestant sects within Hispanics, here and at home, has been so great that Hispanic Catholics have been assimilating pentecostal and evangelical forms of worship in their masses. I’m Hispanic, born and raised, but I prefer mass in English. I haven’t been to one Hispanic mass here in the U.S. that doesn’t seem more Protestant than Catholic. Hispanics have produced great saints and enriched the Church with devotions, art, literature, architecture, etc like few other cultures. It is up there with Italy and France. I can’t understand what happened to Hispanic Catholicism in our country, it’s like they forget centuries of Tradition as soon as they get here. Very sad.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I went to the Spanish mass in a neighboring parish at 7:00 tonight and it didn’t seem one bit protestant to me. I go there about twice a month. Except for the priest and myself, most of the people there are from Guatemala, Mexico, and El Salvador.

“Hispanic Catholics have been assimilating pentecostal and evangelical forms of worship in their masses” This has not been my experience. I don’t know what you mean by this but the masses in Spanish that I’ve attended have been much like the OF masses in my parish except, as has been said, the translation seems a bit better. I think the music (I mean the wording of many of the songs that we sing) is better than some of the English songs. I do notice, however, that in the English masses we sometimes sing or say the Agnus Dei and the Kyrie in Latin (and Greek) but I’ve never been to a Spanish mass where this was done.

Now that I’ve begun to ponder the question, is this desire to pray the EF mass more of an American or English-language phenomenon? What about in the English and French speaking parts of Canada? And in other countries. It would be interesting to find out.

 

[RosaryCrusader]

There is a TLM in Phoenix, AZ (St. Catherine of Sienna) that does the sermon in spanish only due to the high hispanic population.

 

[Alex_Luciano]

I went to the Spanish mass in a neighboring parish at 7:00 tonight and it didn’t seem one bit protestant to me. I go there about twice a month. Except for the priest and myself, most of the people there are from Guatemala, Mexico, and El Salvador.

“Hispanic Catholics have been assimilating pentecostal and evangelical forms of worship in their masses” This has not been my experience. I don’t know what you mean by this but the masses in Spanish that I’ve attended have been much like the OF masses in my parish except, as has been said, the translation seems a bit better. I think the music (I mean the wording of many of the songs that we sing) is better than some of the English songs. I do notice, however, that in the English masses we sometimes sing or say the Agnus Dei and the Kyrie in Latin (and Greek) but I’ve never been to a Spanish mass where this was done.

Now that I’ve begun to ponder the question, is this desire to pray the EF mass more of an American or English-language phenomenon? What about in the English and French speaking parts of Canada? And in other countries. It would be interesting to find out.

It is probably different by region and the national procedence of Hispanics. I would think that Mexican/Central American parishes would be more traditional. I’m in Florida, Orlando specifically, and the majority of Hispanics are from Puerto Rico and other Carribbean regions. These regions have a more “fragile” Catholicism. Not as rich in tradition as the Church in Mexico, Perú or Colombia. What I mean by evangelical styles of worship is that many songs are taken from evangelical/pentecostal sources and the Mass is celebrated with the hype and exuberance of “cultos pentecostales”. I’ve been to them and can see the influence and parallels. I have also attended Hispanic masses in California and although they might be dubbed as more traditional it is my impression that Hispanic Catholocism is not as vibrant here as it should be.And the lack of appropiate catechesis has left our community very susceptible to Protestant influence. Here in Orlando there are like three or four Hispanic mega-churches and Catholic activities are poorly attended. Maybe its just Orlando but what i’ve been able to see elsewhere leads me to think that in a few generations Hispanics will no longer be majority Catholics. Right now its like 65%-35%. Just my observation, hopefully I’m very wrong.