Tradition without the Immaculate is not tradition

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How I wish that all of us who debate so much about tradition on both sides of the aisle would stop the debate just for one day and place our frustrations, suspicions, fears, and anger in the hands of the Immaculate.

No one is more loving, more understanding, and more knowledgeable of her Son’s will for us than she is. Rather than struggle and argue to defend and reject, what would it be like to simply rest on a mother’s lap and ask her to guide us as we learn to walk through these difficult times in human history as she taught the young Jesus to walk while in exile in Egypt.

Today is our Egypt. We can argue or we can hold on to our Mother’s hand as Jesus did.
 
JReducation said:
How I wish that all of us who debate so much about tradition on both sides of the aisle would stop the debate just for one day and place our frustrations, suspicions, fears, and anger in the hands of the Immaculate.

No one is more loving, more understanding, and more knowledgeable of her Son’s will for us than she is. Rather than struggle and argue to defend and reject, what would it be like to simply rest on a mother’s lap and ask her to guide us as we learn to walk through these difficult times in human history as she taught the young Jesus to walk while in exile in Egypt.

Today is our Egypt. We can argue or we can hold on to our Mother’s hand as Jesus did.
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I like the intent. How about this, that no one is more understanding and more knowledgeable and more willing to take us thru our “Egypt”, to put the debate aside and rest in the One who sticks closer than a brother, and has the very hairs on our head numbered, whose heart yearns for us ?
 
pocohombre said:
I like the intent. How about this, that no one is more understanding and more knowledgeable and more willing to take us thru our “Egypt”, to put the debate aside and rest in the One who sticks closer than a brother, and has the very hairs on our head numbered, whose heart yearns for us ?
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Who better to lead us to Jesus than Mary?
 
pocohombre said:
The Father.
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Isn’t it the other way around? Isn’t Jesus who will lead us to the Father?

John 14 said:
[6]
Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me. [7] If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him, and you have seen him. [8] Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us. [9] Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, shew us the Father? [10] Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works.
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pocohombre said:
I like the intent. How about this, that no one is more understanding and more knowledgeable and more willing to take us thru our “Egypt”, to put the debate aside and rest in the One who sticks closer than a brother, and has the very hairs on our head numbered, whose heart yearns for us ?
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zab said:
Who better to lead us to Jesus than Mary?
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pocohombre said:
The Father.
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This forum is not the place to inquire about or dispute our Catholic beliefs. What you have written is like me going into your house and insulting your mother.
 
What we have to understand about the Immaculate and her place in the moment that we’re living is quite simple really.

She is the mother of God. If we go back to Sacred Scripture we find that the king’s mother is always an advocate for the king’s subjects. This comes out very clearly in John’s Gospel at the wedding in Cana.

If we look at the early Fathers of the Church, the Eastern Fathers used a term to speak about the Immaculate that made perfect sense, the Theotokos (God-Bearer). In Greek this does not mean to bear as in labor and delivery. It goes beyond that. Theotokos means “the one who brings God to us”. This is a very singular place in human history and a singular honor in human history. The Eastern Fathers were very clear of this. They received this from the first generation Christians. It became part of Christianity to venerate the person whom God honored in this way and to entrust to this person one’s requests for the king, just as is the case in the scriptures.

There was a reason why the Eastern Fathers referred to the Immaculate as the God-Bearer. What they had received from Luke and Matthew was that 40 days after Jesus was born, Mary went to the temple to fulfill her duty and at that moment, the God-Man is revealed to the Jews as evidenced by the response given by Ana and Simeon. About a year later, the Wise Men from the East arrive and they find the God-Man with his mother and he is then revealed to the Gentiles. In each case, it is the mother who is bearing God’s self-disclosure to Jews and Gentiles.

The early Church works this both ways. The Immaculate is the God-Bearer who brings to us He who is God’s self-disclosure and brings us to Him as it is said in the Gospel of John, “Do whatever he tells you.”

Only the Prince of Peace can bring peace that will endure. The person whom he loves the most is His mother as evidenced by how He honors her. It stands to reason that anything that she asks of Him, he will not deny. He fulfills the 4th commandment to perfection. He honors his father and mother with limitless love and obedience. Because he is perfection itself. He is the perfect son.
 
Nothing is more traditional than what Brother is saying.

It goes to the heart of Sacred Tradition. It is part of the essence of revealed truth from the very first chapters of Genesis, through the exodus, through the kingdom of David, into and back from Exile, through Christ and right up to the present moment and beyond.

People want to talk about Catholic culture, what sets us apart from other Christians, etc. The only thing more in line with our traditional practices, custom’s, beliefs and culture than what Brother is saying is the Eucharist itself.

-Tim-
 
choliks said:
Isn’t it the other way around? Isn’t Jesus who will lead us to the Father?
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Yes, no one goes to the father except thru Son, but…John 6;44-: “No man cometh to me except the Father which hath sent me draw him”.
 
zab said:
This forum is not the place to inquire about or dispute our Catholic beliefs. What you have written is like me going into your house and insulting your mother.
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Sorry. I thought you had devotions to the Sacred Heart also, to which I alluded to (the heart yearning?).
 
pocohombre said:
Sorry. I thought you had devotions to the Sacred Heart also, to which I alluded to (the heart yearning?).
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We do, but we don’t need to boot Mary out of the conversation or the equation to have such devotion. The two are not mutually exclusive.

The Sacred Heart loves no human being more than he loves his mother. The Immaculate Heart is a human heart who loves all human beings, because they are loved by her son. No one loves the Son like the mother. She teaches us how to love the Son.

The dynamic between Mother and Son is the exchange between the human and the divine. It reveals to us the true meaning of union of hearts, when the human heart beats in rhythm with the divine heart.

Until we take Mary’s example and love with her son those whom he loves and avoid the evil that he came to conquer, any peace agreement will be only Band-Aid.

You cannot have lasting peace if you do not have everlasting love in your heart.
 
Blessed Fulton J. Sheen Archbishop

That reminds me of a woman who came to see me one evening after instructions. She said: “I would never become Catholic. You say the same words in the Rosary, over and over again, and anyone who repeats the same words is never sincere. I would never believe such a person and neither would God.” I asked her who the man was who was with her. She said it was her fiance. I asked, “Does he love you?” “He told me.” “What did he say?” He said, “I love you.” “But never before?” “He tells me every night.” I said, “Do not believe him.” He is repeating; he is not sincere.” The beautiful truth, there is no repetition in “I love you.” Because there is a new moment of time, another point in space, the words do not mean the same as before. Love is never monotonous in the uniformity in the uniformity of its expression. The mind is infinitely variable in its language, but the heart is not. The heart of man in the face of the woman he loves is too poor to translate the infinity of his affection into different words. So the heart takes but one expression, “I love you” and in saying it over and over again, it never repeats. It is the only real news in the universe.

That is what we do when we say the Rosary. We are saying to the Holy Trinity, to the Incarnate Savior to the Blessed Mother, “I love you,” I love you, “I love you.”

archbishopfultonsheencentre.com/Mother_Mary.htm

Peace
 
… she is what God wanted us all to be, she speaks of herself as the Eternal blueprint in the Mind of God, the one whom God loved before she was a creature. She is even pictured as being with Him not only at creation but before creation. She existed in the Divine Mind as an Eternal Thought before there were any mothers. She is the Mother of mothers she is the world’s first love.

The World’s First Love, 1956: 11


Blessed Fulton J. Sheen

Peace
 
hazcompat said:
Blessed Fulton J. Sheen Archbishop

That reminds me of a woman who came to see me one evening after instructions. She said: “I would never become Catholic. You say the same words in the Rosary, over and over again, and anyone who repeats the same words is never sincere. I would never believe such a person and neither would God.” I asked her who the man was who was with her. She said it was her fiance. I asked, “Does he love you?” “He told me.” “What did he say?” He said, “I love you.” “But never before?” “He tells me every night.” I said, “Do not believe him.” He is repeating; he is not sincere.” The beautiful truth, there is no repetition in “I love you.” Because there is a new moment of time, another point in space, the words do not mean the same as before. Love is never monotonous in the uniformity in the uniformity of its expression. The mind is infinitely variable in its language, but the heart is not. The heart of man in the face of the woman he loves is too poor to translate the infinity of his affection into different words. So the heart takes but one expression, “I love you” and in saying it over and over again, it never repeats. It is the only real news in the universe.

That is what we do when we say the Rosary. We are saying to the Holy Trinity, to the Incarnate Savior to the Blessed Mother, “I love you,” I love you, “I love you.”

archbishopfultonsheencentre.com/Mother_Mary.htm

Peace
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Wow…
Bishop Sheen huh.
I need some more of that.
 
Excerpt from Sheen’s February 25, 1940 address:

Though men failed in this crisis [the Lord’s Passion], there is no instance of a single woman failing. In the four trials the voice heard in His defense was that of a woman, Claudia Procul the wife of Pontius Pilate, warning her husband not to do anything unjust to that just man…. On the way to Calvary, it is the woman who offers consolation, first Veronica wiping away the blood and sweat from His Sacred Face … then the holy women to whom the Prisoner turned suggesting that only such multiplied mercies and charities as their own could avert catastrophe for their children…. Again on Calvary it is woman who is fearless, for there are several of them at the foot of the Cross. Magdalene, among them as usual, is prostrate. But there is one whose courage and devotion was so remarkable that the Evangelist who was there indicated that she was “standing.” That woman was the Mother of the Man on the Central Cross.

littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/2013/03/fulton-sheen-part-iii-third-word-and.html

Peace
 
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