Tradition

[2nd_Adam]

Tradition

What are your views on tradition? I believe there are traditions that need to be received by all Christians. And there are traditions that need to be rejected by all Christians.

And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. - Galatians 1:14

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. - Colossians 2:8

… brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. - 2 Thessalonians 2:15

 

[Nominefili]

Tradition can be very valuable. From tradition came our wonderful, sincere Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian creeds, for example. However, tradition is only profitable insofar as it agrees with scripture. When it contradicts scripture and the ancient faith (i.e. indulgences), it is detrimental. Thus came the Reformation.

 

[Eucharisted]

We have one Tradition, the Apostolic Tradition, so called because it is from the Apostles, the Church’s first bishops, and is handed down to their successors in the office of bishop, and down throughout the ages, for it is the pastors of the Church who guard this Sacred Tradition.

And just as from ths Oral Tradition came the Sacred Scriptures, which the bishops of the Church compiled, so too from this same Tradition have come many traditions of men, many pious legends, which, like most legends, are untrue but tell us about certain truths.

For example, the legend that when Jesus’ Precious Blood touched the earth there bloomed flowers tells us the truth about Jesus’ life-giving Blood, the Precious River of Supernatural Life which renews in the soul its share in the Life of God, who out of love of man died on the Cross.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Tradition can be very valuable. From tradition came our wonderful, sincere Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian creeds, for example. However, tradition is only profitable insofar as it agrees with scripture. When it contradicts scripture and the ancient faith (i.e. indulgences), it is detrimental. Thus came the Reformation.

Indulgences do not contradict scripture.

Romans 12
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Col 1
Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

Romans 8:17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

2 Corinthians 1:5 For just as the sufferings of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ.

Philippians 2:17 But even if I am being poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I rejoice and share my joy with you all.

2 Timothy 2:10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Tradition can be very valuable. From tradition came our wonderful, sincere Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian creeds, for example. However, tradition is only profitable insofar as it agrees with scripture. When it contradicts scripture and the ancient faith (i.e. indulgences), it is detrimental. Thus came the Reformation.

I see tradition in the same way that you posted. Very nice post!

 

[Nominefili]

Indulgences do not contradict scripture.

Romans 12
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Col 1
Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

Romans 8:17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

2 Corinthians 1:5 For just as the sufferings of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ.

Philippians 2:17 But even if I am being poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I rejoice and share my joy with you all.

2 Timothy 2:10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory.

Could you elaborate? I don’t really see how those passages support the doctrine of indulgences.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Indulgences do not contradict scripture.

That’s debatable. Maybe indulgences based on traditon is false, and indulgences based on Tradition is true? Of course, I said maybe…

“As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs.” - Johann Tetzel

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/BRGPOD/158243.jpg

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Could you elaborate? I don’t really see how those passages support the doctrine of indulgences.

*1471 The doctrine and practice of indulgences in the Church are closely linked to the effects of the sacrament of Penance.

What is an indulgence?

"An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints."81

"An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin."82 The faithful can gain indulgences for themselves or apply them to the dead.NT *

What are the temporal punishments due to sin? Some would include guilt, inability to internalize God’s forgiveness, inability to reconcile with those who we have wronged or who have wronged us, etc.

Indulgences help us heal.

Let’s apply this to the scripture I posted:

Romans 12
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Paul is telling us that our sacrifices can help us discern God’s will.

Col 1
Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

Paul tells us that our suffering can be offered for the sake of his Church.

Romans 8:17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

2 Corinthians 1:5 For just as the sufferings of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ.

Philippians 2:17 But even if I am being poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I rejoice and share my joy with you all.

2 Timothy 2:10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory.

Paul tells us here that our sufferings can aid in the salvation of others.

Indulgences are the product of the Church’s guidance toward achieving these goals.

Here’s more:

catholic.com/library/Primer_on_Indulgences.asp

 

[Nominefili]

*1471 The doctrine and practice of indulgences in the Church are closely linked to the effects of the sacrament of Penance.

What is an indulgence?

"An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints."81

"An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin."82 The faithful can gain indulgences for themselves or apply them to the dead.NT *

Thanks for clarifying
What are the temporal punishments due to sin? Some would include guilt, inability to internalize God’s forgiveness, inability to reconcile with those who we have wronged or who have wronged us, etc.

Indulgences help us heal.

Let’s apply this to the scripture I posted:

Paul is telling us that our sacrifices can help us discern God’s will.

Paul tells us that our suffering can be offered for the sake of his Church.

Paul tells us here that our sufferings can aid in the salvation of others.

Indulgences are the product of the Church’s guidance toward achieving these goals.

 

[Nominefili]

Paul is telling us that our sacrifices can help us discern God’s will.

Paul tells us that our suffering can be offered for the sake of his Church.

Paul tells us here that our sufferings can aid in the salvation of others.

Indulgences are the product of the Church’s guidance toward achieving these goals.

Here’s more:

catholic.com/library/Primer_on_Indulgences.asp

Thank you very much for clarifying.

 

[2nd_Adam]

If we understand the difference between Tradition and tradition as Catholic and Protestant Christians, we will move forward toward unity.

 

[Ceil-1]

I love indulgences. It is a beautiful thing. If you don’t that is your loss. Nevertheless, the Church has the authority from God to grant them. If one does not acknowledge the residual negative effects of sin, he will not see the need of an indulgence.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

The Canon of Scripture is one of my favorite Traditions of the Church.

God bless

 

[2nd_Adam]

The Canon of Scripture is one of my favorite Traditions of the Church.

God bless

The Protestant Canon of Scripture is my favorite Traditions of the catholic church.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

The Protestant Canon of Scripture is my favorite Traditions of the catholic church.

I am glad you openly admit that the canon of scripture cannot be derived from the Scriptures them selves and that they are, in fact, a Tradition. I will keep this in mind if I ever catch you saying that you follow the Bible alone and nothing else and therefore follow no Traditions. npatrol:

God bless you

 

[2nd_Adam]

I am glad you openly admit that the canon of scripture cannot be derived from the Scriptures them selves and that they are, in fact, a Tradition. I will keep this in mind if I ever catch you saying that you follow the Bible alone and nothing else and therefore follow no Traditions. npatrol:

God bless you

Sola Sacred Tradition = 66 books

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Sola Sacred Tradition = 66 books

It doesn’t matter if you affirm 1 Traditions or a 1,000. By having even a single Tradition, in this case the Canon of Scripture (which you stated was your favorite Protestant Tradition), means that you do not follow the Bible alone. Like I said, I am glad you can openly admit this and I have book marked this comment just in case you may ever try to portray yourself as a Bible alone Christian

God bless

 

[2nd_Adam]

It doesn’t matter if you affirm 1 Traditions or a 1,000. By having even a single Tradition, in this case the Canon of Scripture (which you stated was your favorite Protestant Tradition), means that you do not follow the Bible alone. Like I said, I am glad you can openly admit this and I have book marked this comment just in case you may ever try to portray yourself as a Bible alone Christian

God bless

Oh, how we have a tendency to misunderstand each other since we all know in part.

monergism.com/directory/search.php?action=search_links_simple&search_kind=and&phrase=sola+scriptura&B1.x=28&B1.y=14

Tradition is good when it matches Special Revelation from above!

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

monergism.com/directory/link_category/Gospel/

Oh, how we have a tendency to misunderstand each other since we all know in part.

How am I misunderstanding you?

You said your favorite Tradition was the Protestant Canon of Scripture. Is this or is this not what you wanted to say… Because it is what you said:
2nd Adam:

The Protestant Canon of Scripture is my favorite Traditions of the catholic church.

Here is my understanding of what you wrote; your favorite Tradition is the Protestant Canon of the Bible. Please explain to me where I have misunderstood you.

God bless

 

[2nd_Adam]

How am I misunderstanding you?

You said your favorite Tradition was the Protestant Canon of Scripture. Is this or is this not what you wanted to say… Because it is what you said:

Here is my understanding of what you wrote; your favorite Tradition is the Protestant Canon of the Bible. Please explain to me where I have misunderstood you.

God bless

I forgot, what was your point in the first place?