Traditional ***AND*** Contemporary Music?

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SMHW

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OK, forgive me. I’m feeling a bit contentious. But I’m still curious.

But are there folks out there that are willing to admit they like BOTH traditional hymns and contemporary church music?

My parish choir has a repertoire that includes various types of music. We sing Mozart, Palestrina, Bach, and Handel. We also sing plenty of OCP and GIA contemporary music. And at the risk of sounding vain, we sing both types of music extremely well!

I’ll admit that I really don’t like chant that much. I personally think chant is the hardest type of music to sing well. If it is done exceptionally well it can sound beautiful. But I find anything less than exceptionally well to be tedious.
 
You didn’t know that you have to only like one or the other?

I tend to like both forms of music, I think that when you look at the entirety of the treasure trove of liturgical music you find some wonderful stuff…you also find some not so good stuff.

The problem I have is with people who make it sound like no music worth singing at mass has been written since 1950, and that there should be no syncopation in worship.
 
The problem really isn’t about contemporary vs. traditional or one form of music over another. It is all about the Mass.

Is what is being played and sung appropriate for the Mass?

Does it engender reverence?

Does it help us keep our minds on the readings and not on ourselves?

Does it bring attention to the altar and the Sacrifice being offered there?

Does it help us be properly disposed to receive Christ’s body and blood, soul and divinity?

Does it aid worship or only make us think of the music?

These are the sorts of questions every choir director/music director ought to be asking, not whether or not people will like it or how it will make people feel.
 
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Della:
Is what is being played and sung appropriate for the Mass?

Does it engender reverence?

Does it help us keep our minds on the readings and not on ourselves?

Does it bring attention to the altar and the Sacrifice being offered there?

Does it help us be properly disposed to receive Christ’s body and blood, soul and divinity?

Does it aid worship or only make us think of the music?
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Those are good questions. I have heard modern music, played with non-traditional instruments, for which all of those questions could be answered “Yes”. So in my opinion, music for Mass doesn’t have to have been written before 1950, and it doesn’t have to be chant. 🙂

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frommi:
You didn’t know that you have to only like one or the other?

I tend to like both forms of music, I think that when you look at the entirety of the treasure trove of liturgical music you find some wonderful stuff…you also find some not so good stuff.

The problem I have is with people who make it sound like no music worth singing at mass has been written since 1950, and that there should be no syncopation in worship.
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Of course the problem is that the music written since 1950 that is any good is never chosen. Just the dreck. That the 70’s gave us both leisure suits and contemporary Catholic liturgical music should surprise no one.
 
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Della:
The problem really isn’t about contemporary vs. traditional or one form of music over another. It is all about the Mass.

Is what is being played and sung appropriate for the Mass?

Does it engender reverence?

Does it help us keep our minds on the readings and not on ourselves?

Does it bring attention to the altar and the Sacrifice being offered there?

Does it help us be properly disposed to receive Christ’s body and blood, soul and divinity?

Does it aid worship or only make us think of the music?

These are the sorts of questions every choir director/music director ought to be asking, not whether or not people will like it or how it will make people feel.
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But therin lies the rub…are we supposed to take a survey and find out how songs fall on people’s ears?

For example…chant does nothing to help me prepare to receive the Eucharist…but frankly, a well sung communion processional like a “Taste and See” does…but I would bet it doesn’t do that for a lot of people.

And as soon as we say does it engender “reverence”…we set up a moving target that no song can hit.
 
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johnnykins:
Of course the problem is that the music written since 1950 that is any good is never chosen. Just the dreck. That the 70’s gave us both leisure suits and contemporary Catholic liturgical music should surprise no one.
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Again, that’s a personal opinion…

Whether you like it or not…songs like Here I Am Lord, and On Eagle’s Wings have found their way into the hearts of many a Catholic…they get sung a good number of the funerals I play (personally I’m sick of them)…but both are products of the 70s…

I think the people of God decide what music works for them and what doesn’t…the unsingable gets washed out over time.
 
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frommi:
But therin lies the rub…are we supposed to take a survey and find out how songs fall on people’s ears?

For example…chant does nothing to help me prepare to receive the Eucharist…but frankly, a well sung communion processional like a “Taste and See” does…but I would bet it doesn’t do that for a lot of people.

And as soon as we say does it engender “reverence”…we set up a moving target that no song can hit.
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Come on, Rome - Vatican II no less, has said that chant should have the place of honor. How many Catholic Churches reallly honor that? Be honest and you know it’s very few. So the Church has given its guidance on this - you just don’t want to listen to it.
 
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johnnykins:
Come on, Rome - Vatican II no less, has said that chant should have the place of honor. How many Catholic Churches reallly honor that? Be honest and you know it’s very few. So the Church has given its guidance on this - you just don’t want to listen to it.
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OK…fine…give chant a place of honor…but what exactly does that mean? Once a week, once a year…what?

There is NOTHING wrong with chant…but you have to integrate it with the music of a particular culture.
 
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frommi:
Again, that’s a personal opinion…

Whether you like it or not…songs like Here I Am Lord, and On Eagle’s Wings have found their way into the hearts of many a Catholic…they get sung a good number of the funerals I play (personally I’m sick of them)…but both are products of the 70s…

I think the people of God decide what music works for them and what doesn’t…the unsingable gets washed out over time.
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Not “just personal” see the post above. It’s you that have taken the personal tack by insisting on the continued - and general - use of those songs.

Yes, I am well aware that they are both products of the 70s. Are they terrible - absolutely. QED.
 
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Della:
The problem really isn’t about contemporary vs. traditional or one form of music over another. It is all about the Mass.

Is what is being played and sung appropriate for the Mass?

Does it engender reverence?

Does it help us keep our minds on the readings and not on ourselves?

Does it bring attention to the altar and the Sacrifice being offered there?

Does it help us be properly disposed to receive Christ’s body and blood, soul and divinity?

Does it aid worship or only make us think of the music?

These are the sorts of questions every choir director/music director ought to be asking, not whether or not people will like it or how it will make people feel.
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Spot on! There are some contemporary songs that are very appropriate for the Holy Sacrifice. Unfortunately, Oregon Catholic Press doesn’t like any of *those. *And they go into contortions to try and diddle the language of some of the traditional hymns.
 
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frommi:
OK…fine…give chant a place of honor…but what exactly does that mean? Once a week, once a year…what?

There is NOTHING wrong with chant…but you have to integrate it with the music of a particular culture.
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and hence you open the door to whatever you want. American culture is WESTERN CULTURE. More than 2x every 40 years would be nice. You know those who argue your position rarely if ever voluntarily in the past 40 years used chant. Otherwise why has it so rarely been performed. That is not a personal opinion - that is the experience of millions of Catholics.
 
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frommi:
But therin lies the rub…are we supposed to take a survey and find out how songs fall on people’s ears?

For example…chant does nothing to help me prepare to receive the Eucharist…but frankly, a well sung communion processional like a “Taste and See” does…but I would bet it doesn’t do that for a lot of people.

And as soon as we say does it engender “reverence”…we set up a moving target that no song can hit.
Click to expand...
The criteria I listed is not a secret nor a mystery to be solved. The Church has said what music is appropriate and which isn’t. It’s up to our priests, music directors, and liturgists to implement what the Church as asked be used for the Mass, not our personal preferences.
 
I personally (note the qualification of “personally”) feel that the problem with the current state of music in the Church is that we’re stuck in a time warp. Lots of clergy and liturgists bought into the “spirit” of Vatican II/the 60’s and 70’s/whatever and in an effort to make the Church, the Gospel, and the Mass more “relevant,” they started doing all this folksy music. But that’s the problem with trying to be “relevant:” relevance changes in the popular mind. “This” might be relevant today, but “that” will be tomorrow. It we really wanted to be “relevant,” we’d have rave Masses, hip-hop Masses, gangsta rap Masses (“yo, Dog, God’s gonna bust a cap in yo ***** you dis His Directives”). The Church, however, apart from some of her clergy and liturgists, understands that “relevance” isn’t the Church’s mission, really. She’s supposed to be counter-cultural, she’s supposed to to proclaim the Gospel and lift up Christ crucified (“If I be lifted up, I shall draw all men unto me”). That’s how she IS relevant!

(Dismounting soap box)
 
I have no problem with writing new hymns. Just becuase they were written post Vat-II does not make them neccessarly wrong. The problem lies in that it seems that we threw out a treasure trove of litrugical music just to replace it was ‘songs’ that were rolled out just for the sake of having new music. 90% of the new stuff is unfit for proper liturgical worship. I most certrainly do not agree with Protestant music being used at mass. If you find it to be uplifiting thats fine but songs written by schismatics should not be used for our celebration of the Eucharist and perfect Communion with Christ.

And who do I have to french kiss for a tantum ergo, panis angelicus, holy god we praise thy name, holy holy holy, ect?
 
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SMHW:
But are there folks out there that are willing to admit they like BOTH traditional hymns and contemporary church music?
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Yeah, I’ll fess up to that.

I like chant. I like praise and worship. I like traditional hymns. I like some of what has now come to be called “OCP” and “GIA” tunes. I even like some of the grand orchestral settings by classical composers. Anyway, I’ve experienced much of this stuff used well and also employed poorly. Everything in it’s proper place.
 
I Like both. I have been singing all my life and I find it benifitial to sing both well. I was remembering going to a music liturgy meeting at a new church and suggesting songs like “On Eagles Wings” and some John Micheal Talbot songs because they were appropriate with the readings for a certain week. Some older ladies (I am in my 20’s and these ladies were in their 80’s) got all bent out of shape because On Eagles wings was too contemporary! It was written in the 60’s!!! 40 years ago!!! I guess everything is relative!
 
I like both! I must saying growing up the songs most frequently sang would probably be: “Holy God We Praise Thy Name”, “On Eagle’s Wings”, “Gift of Finest Wheat”, “Holy Holy Holy”, “Joyful Joyful” ect…then as a teen we had a priest who went to all Latin–ALL LATIN which was fine with me at the time because I was in choir at school and we sang latin a lot and I like singing the different parts (Generally soprano 2 or alto 1). However we had people leave the parish like flies (not saying they should have though)…

Then I left my hometown and came to a church with guitar and piano and drum kit and brass…wow what is this–are we protestants! I was appalled–then slowing but surely I realized I liked this music even more than the “holy holy holy” years and the latin…this music made me actually THINK! It made me cry at times…

Anyways that’s just the thoughts of a 23 yr old who has heard most Catholic songs out there…
 
I view John Rutter as a contemporary composer who writes exceptional music. I am not a fan of Haugen, Haas, Glory and Praise or the Gather hymnals and a good bit of the GIA compositions. Although I am on hiatus, I sang in a catheral choir for 18 years. We sang traditional chant, polyphony and traditional music for all Masses except diocesan. So this Wednesday for the Chrism Mass, it would be contemporary GIA, Haugen, Haas type of music. Same thing goes for ordinations. We sing the music with the same professonalism that we sing the traditional but from a chorister’s point of view, our hearts aren’t in it. I can’t remember the composer but it is a GIA publication for the Chrism Mass “Forever I will sing the goodness of the Lord”. It’s just too, too…over the top. Or the GIA publication for ordinations, “I will go up” - a translation of the Introibo ad altare Dei. I admit we were bad but when we first learned to sing this for an ordination (in practice) the choir jumped up and threw their hands in the air on “I will go UP”. One choir director called it sacro-pop. I labled it Muppet Music because I could see the muppets singing it. But yet, GIA can publish some really good contemporary music such as the “Choral Fanfare for Christ the King”.
Now as for Protestant music…hmmm…there’s protestant music and protestant music. When a local Episcopalian church wanted to get rid of their 1940 Hymnal they gave them to us. St. Patrick’s Breastplate! And before we were allowed to actually sing the sequences in Latin, we used the lovely poetic translations in that hymnal. Even in a cathedral parish, it has been a years long effort to gradually go back to Latin with English used. For example, we sing the Pange Lingua on Holy Thursday using Latin first and then the English translation (from the 1940 hymnal).

And there is something to be said for Taize as a contemporary. I love their setting of Veni Sancti Spriitus for Pentacost. We used a few others over the years as well.
 
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brotherhrolf:
I view John Rutter as a contemporary composer who writes exceptional music. I am not a fan of Haugen, Haas, Glory and Praise or the Gather hymnals and a good bit of the GIA compositions. Although I am on hiatus, I sang in a catheral choir for 18 years. We sang traditional chant, polyphony and traditional music for all Masses except diocesan. So this Wednesday for the Chrism Mass, it would be contemporary GIA, Haugen, Haas type of music. Same thing goes for ordinations. We sing the music with the same professonalism that we sing the traditional but from a chorister’s point of view, our hearts aren’t in it. I can’t remember the composer but it is a GIA publication for the Chrism Mass “Forever I will sing the goodness of the Lord”. It’s just too, too…over the top. Or the GIA publication for ordinations, “I will go up” - a translation of the Introibo ad altare Dei. I admit we were bad but when we first learned to sing this for an ordination (in practice) the choir jumped up and threw their hands in the air on “I will go UP”. One choir director called it sacro-pop. I labled it Muppet Music because I could see the muppets singing it. But yet, GIA can publish some really good contemporary music such as the “Choral Fanfare for Christ the King”.
Now as for Protestant music…hmmm…there’s protestant music and protestant music. When a local Episcopalian church wanted to get rid of their 1940 Hymnal they gave them to us. St. Patrick’s Breastplate! And before we were allowed to actually sing the sequences in Latin, we used the lovely poetic translations in that hymnal. Even in a cathedral parish, it has been a years long effort to gradually go back to Latin with English used. For example, we sing the Pange Lingua on Holy Thursday using Latin first and then the English translation (from the 1940 hymnal).

And there is something to be said for Taize as a contemporary. I love their setting of Veni Sancti Spriitus for Pentacost. We used a few others over the years as well.
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wonderful post
 
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