Traditional Anglican Community Wants Unity

[Hesychios]

This conservative Anglican group, which is seperate from the mainstream Anglican/Episcopal Church and rejects ordination of women, is seeking reunion with Rome.

It is also comparatively small. I really have no idea what their actual numbers are, but they might be smaller than the SSPX. I am sure their membership would grow by leaps if Roman Catholics were allowed to commune there.

Conservative Anglicanism (over most of the world, probably) is now dominated by Evangelicals, who really have more in common with Methodists than Roman Catholics. Anglo-Catholics are as likely to be liberal as conservative, and it seems that the rainbow crowd is attracted to the high church aspects of liturgy, more so than the low-church.

It looks like the TAC would be more at home in Roman Catholicism than in the future Anglican Communion, however that shakes out. But if they don’t make some kind of move I would bet that they will fade into history eventually.

Michael

 

[Caesar]

The Traditional Anglican Community has valid orders via Old Catholic or Polish National Catholic bishops, I believe.

So long as that succession can be traced and confirmed beyond a doubt, I am happy for them. It just isnt a good thing to treat the issue of valid sacraments lightly.

 

[ravenonthecross]

I sure they don’t. I pray that whatever the condition the TradAngs may be in(that they be quietly ordained if their orders are found to be invalid.) and with speed and carefulness be accepted lovingly back into the arms of our blessed Savior Christ Jesus via his mystical body, the Holy Catholic Church.

 

[BobP123]

The Traditional Anglican Community has valid orders via Old Catholic or Polish National Catholic bishops, I believe.

Yes, but what did Pope Leo XIII say about their ordinations?

It is also comparatively small. I really have no idea what their actual numbers are, but they might be smaller than the SSPX.

I would think so too, being limited to the English-speaking countries if that much.

 

[twiztedseraph]

Will these Anglican clerics admit the invalidity of their orders though? To enter into full communion with Rome they would all have to actually recieve the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

So many confirmations and confessions to be re-done as well.

 

[stmaria]

This is wonderful news. The Traditional Anglicans have been indicating for some time now that they wanted to come back. This is true ecumenism, which will result in true unity.

timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2529027.ece

US bishop defects to Catholic Church in row over gays

“In the most high-profile American defection to date in the row over gays in the Anglican Church, a diocesan bishop has explained why he is to be received into the Roman Catholic Church.
The Bishop of Rio Grande, Jeffrey Steenson, who was educated at Oxford and is in the Anglican Catholic tradition of the Church, said that to remain in his post in the Episcopal Church may lead him "to a place apart from Scripture and tradition”.
In a statement to American bishops meeting in New Orleans in an attempt to avert schism, in which he requested permission to resign both from his post and his orders, the Bishop Steenson said: “I am concerned that if I do not listen to and act in accordance with conscience now, it will become harder and harder to hear God’s voice.”

 

[drafdog]

I don’t know why this has been so long in coming, after all the Oxford Movement dates from the 19th century.
On a further note, I am in favor of establishing an Anglican Rite within the Catholic Church. In this way we may preserve the tradition of the Anglican spirituality and liturgical practices. I would hate to lose these as they seem to be based on the Benedictine influence in the English church.

Matthew

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The Cahtolic Church has ordained a number of pastors who have come from the Anglican/Episcopal church, some for the Methodist, and one form the Presbyterians. But the only ones they have ordained who are married are converts; there is no one I know of who has been ordained while married except converts. So they come in knowing the rules (that is, those who are not or have not been pastors who convert are not able to be ordained).

Correct, except we need to change your use of “Catholic Church” with “Latin (or Roman) Catholic Church”.

The Byzantine Churches have and do ordain married men to the priesthood who are not converts.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I don’t know why this has been so long in coming, after all the Oxford Movement dates from the 19th century.
On a further note, I am in favor of establishing an Anglican Rite within the Catholic Church. In this way we may preserve the tradition of the Anglican spirituality and liturgical practices. I would hate to lose these as they seem to be based on the Benedictine influence in the English church.

Matthew

Anglican liturgical practices are preserved in the Anglican Use Liturgy.

What Anglican spirituality needs to be preserved that is different from Western Catholic spirituality with out being heresy?

 

[Hesychios]

Hello Brother David,

Anglican liturgical practices are preserved in the Anglican Use Liturgy.

What Anglican spirituality needs to be preserved that is different from Western Catholic spirituality with out being heresy?

Good points.

I suppose there may be some Anglican Divines we are not familiar with who may be worth a good study. Otherwise I would think the Anglican Use is merely a liturgical issue. I know that is very superficial of me to say, but theoretically that’s all it should be.

Unfortunately, the way it is currently applied, the Anglican Use is not a permanent fixture in Roman Catholicism. It is a transitional phase into the ‘standard’ Latin rite, and is calculated to disappear over time.

Most committed Anglicans would probably prefer something more permanent, I would think. They would need a structure.

Perhaps a Personal Prelature would serve the need. The idea has been floated before.

Michael

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hello Brother David, Good points.

I suppose there may be some Anglican Divines we are not familiar with who may be worth a good study. Otherwise I would think the Anglican Use is merely a liturgical issue. I know that is very superficial of me to say, but theoretically that’s all it should be.

Unfortunately, the way it is currently applied, the Anglican Use is not a permanent fixture in Roman Catholicism. It is a transitional phase into the ‘standard’ Latin rite, and is calculated to disappear over time.

Most committed Anglicans would probably prefer something more permanent, I would think. They would need a structure.

Perhaps a Personal Prelature would serve the need. The idea has been floated before.

Michael

I think raising the Use to a Rite that is available within the Latin Church should be good enough. Just as the Russian Byzantine Churches fall under the local Latin ordinary or the creation of parishes that celebrate the extraordinary form only.

 

[chrisb]

Grace and Peace,

I recently purchased a 1559 Book of Common Prayer and I was simply shocked at how faithful Cramner was in the translation of the Latin.

Peace and God Bless.

 

[SemperFidelis]

In my personal opinion, I think Rome should just give them their own Rite. They are just as big, if not bigger than a few of the Eastern Rites. Also this would go far in helping to convert Traditional Anglicans.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

In my personal opinion, I think Rome should just give them their own Rite. They are just as big, if not bigger than a few of the Eastern Rites. Also this would go far in helping to convert Traditional Anglicans.

Giving them their own Rite would not be a problem, but what differs with their Rite other than the Eucharistic Liturgy?

Giving them their own Rite does not mean that they will get their own Church sui iuris.

How could they be given such a thing when they will not have any bishops? Or are there any celibate bishops in the TAC?

 

[Caesar]

In my personal opinion, I think Rome should just give them their own Rite. They are just as big, if not bigger than a few of the Eastern Rites. Also this would go far in helping to convert Traditional Anglicans.

They already have their own Rite- the Anglican Use of the Roman Rite.

 

[SemperFidelis]

They already have their own Rite- the Anglican Use of the Roman Rite.

A Use is not techinically a Rite, correct? If so what is the difference between the two?

 

[Chatter163]

In my personal opinion, I think Rome should just give them their own Rite. They are just as big, if not bigger than a few of the Eastern Rites.

Huh? Please explain.

 

[Formosus]

Huh? Please explain.

The TAC is larger then some of the various eastern churches is what he was trying to say I beleive.

Pre-Reformation english catholicism was filled with a very interesting spirituality that was slightly different then the continental Latin Catholicism, though I am unsure if it is different enough to warrent it being raised to the status of a church. I think that the TAC though should be given some sort of special priviledge, such as their own seminaries to train priests specifically for their TAC congregations or perhaps a personal prelature like what some traditional Catholics desire for the TLM. What I would like to see is the Sarum Use liturgy restored if the TAC comes back, but I think that is hoping for too much lol.

 

[otjm]

Correct, except we need to change your use of “Catholic Church” with “Latin (or Roman) Catholic Church”.

The Byzantine Churches have and do ordain married men to the priesthood who are not converts.

I know better, but was in a hurry. And since it gripes me that so many thing the Church is the “Roman Catholic Church” there is no excuse.

 

[Hesychios]

In my personal opinion, I think Rome should just give them their own Rite. They are just as big, if not bigger than a few of the Eastern Rites.

Perhaps bigger than the Russian Catholic church, or the Bulgarian Catholic church.

Definitely bigger than the Georgian Catholic church.

But I don’t think that size alone justifies a separate ecclesiastical structure of that type. It has much more to do with the spirituality and practices.

I don’t see them as very different from Roman Catholics, and so far that is the official position of Rome.

Even the Mozarabic rite and the Milanese/Ambrosian rite are still considered fully Roman Catholic. They are remnants of ancient churches dying away and both have deep roots in the first centuries of Christianity as original churches. Anglicanism has no such claim to make, it’s roots in Britannic-Celtic Christianity disappeared long ago, and what’s left is a form of the Frankish-Latin church practice, very much the standard issue rite for the west.
*
Michael*