Traditional Calendar and US Feasts

[FrRJBoyd]

Today is the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, which is listed as a III class feast in the US according to the 1962 Calendar. However, since she has been declared the Secondary Patroness of the US and all the Americas, shouldn’t that raise her feast to II class?

January 4th and 5th are the feast days of St. Elizabeth Ann Seton and St John Neumann, respectively. The FSSP Ordo lists them as III class feasts for the US, but no 1962 (or '63 or '64) liturgical book that I own lists them. Bishop Neumann was beatified in 1963 and canonized in 1977; Mother Seton was beatified in 1963 and canonized in 1975. Hence, they could not have been on any 1962 Calendar. Does anyone know if their feasts were included by Ecclesia Dei or some other competent authority for the US? If I were to celebrate their feasts, where would the texts of the Mass and the Breviary come from? If, from the common, where would I take Lesson III for Matins?

Thanks and God bless,

Fr. Boyd

 

[newyorkcatholic]

Dear Father,

This questions (as it pertained to the propers for the celebration of the feast of St. John Neumann according to the 1962 Missal) was addressed on Father Z’s blog … it might be worth googling.

It’s very difficult (especially as I am a layman) to understand these things, but I try as I pray the Office (sometimes the traditional office) and often attend the EF and I like to study the propers before I attend Mass.

My perspective is that a society like the FSSP has solid credentials in terms of respecting the traditional calendar and also remaining loyal to Peter, and so if they list a feast not previously listed, or change a rank, or offer propers, I trust them. If they make a mistake I am hardly sinning by following their generally trustworthy guide, and I simply cannot navigate all the relevant texts/documents/pronouncements myself.

 

[bpbasilphx]

My understanding is that any Latin rite priest (EF or OF) may celebrate mass of ANY saint in the Roman Martyrology, either as a votive on a free day, or (barring a higher ranking feast) on the day of the saint’s commemoration in the Martyrology.

 

[newyorkcatholic]

bpbasilphx, I have never heard such a thing … usually the available ordos list exactly what to celebrate, at what level of solemnity, and what commemorations to make. Or for the ordinary form, what the choices are.

Do you remember where you read/saw that?

 

[Chatter163]

bpbasilphx, I have never heard such a thing … usually the available ordos list exactly what to celebrate, at what level of solemnity, and what commemorations to make. Or for the ordinary form, what the choices are.

Do you remember where you read/saw that?

This is an ancient custom, and is part of the reason for the common of saints section in the missal. As far back as Fortescue and O’Connell, the rubricalo commentators discussed this.

 

[FrRJBoyd]

My understanding is that any Latin rite priest (EF or OF) may celebrate mass of ANY saint in the Roman Martyrology, either as a votive on a free day, or (barring a higher ranking feast) on the day of the saint’s commemoration in the Martyrology.

Yes; on 4th class ferias (EF), or on weekdays in ordinary time that have no obligatory memorial, feast or solemnity assigned (OF), one may offer any votive Mass, including a votive for any saint in the Martyrology. On similar weekdays of the Easter season (OF), one may offer the Mass in honor any saint listed that day in the Roman Martyrology.

However, this does not address the issues listed in the original message. 2nd and 3rd class feasts are not votive Masses.

God bless,

Fr. Boyd

 

[bpbasilphx]

I would imagine that those who practice the Extraordinary Form who wish to honor newly-canonized saints would use the appropriate common from the Missal and Breviary.

Once in a Monastery, a day fell which the Greek and Russian saints were no more than mere names to us. But the calendar also listed St. Augustine of Canterbury, who had more immediate devotional interest for us.

So we used the Common of a Bishop for his office from the General Menaion (which corresponds to the Common of Saints).

 

[newyorkcatholic]

So when I pray the office, am I free to use the common and propers if available of any saint on any free day (weekdays in OT)?

And I guess on those times I could also pray the office of the dead?

Can I commemorate different saints during different hours?

this is new stuff to me! I always used to go by the Ordo

 

[AJV]

So when I pray the office, am I free to use the common and propers if available of any saint on any free day (weekdays in OT)?

If you are praying the Liturg of the Hours, or the revised Office after 1970, then you can. There is very liberal permission there for commemorating saints on weekdays.

In the 1961 breviary, this is not possible. It is possible for the Mass, where the “festive Mass” so called, or a votive Mass is celebrated “extra Ordinem Officii” (outside the order of the Office) but in the praying of the Hours, one has to observe the feria/saint/Sunday/other, and cannot commemorate or add saints. Votive Offices were removed by St. Pius X to avoid encroaching on the ferial days.

The Office of the Dead may be recited after the Office of the Day in the 1961 breviary. The 1970 rubrics are not very clear on this point, and the Liturgy of the Hours could suggest either way, after the office of the day, or replacing the office of the day.

 

[FrRJBoyd]

So when I pray the office, am I free to use the common and propers if available of any saint on any free day (weekdays in OT)?

And I guess on those times I could also pray the office of the dead?

Can I commemorate different saints during different hours?

this is new stuff to me! I always used to go by the Ordo

In the OF, on any free weekday in ordinary time you may indeed celebrate any saint of the day as you would an optional memorial, or even the external solemnity of a saint [cf. the GILH]. However, in the EF, you may not. Votive offices were abolished by 1962, and commemorations follow strict rules. For Mass, however, any priest may add a votive collect on a 4th class feria. The permission does not extend to the Office.

 

[AJV]

Today is the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, which is listed as a III class feast in the US according to the 1962 Calendar. However, since she has been declared the Secondary Patroness of the US and all the Americas, shouldn’t that raise her feast to II class?

January 4th and 5th are the feast days of St. Elizabeth Ann Seton and St John Neumann, respectively. The FSSP Ordo lists them as III class feasts for the US, but no 1962 (or '63 or '64) liturgical book that I own lists them. Bishop Neumann was beatified in 1963 and canonized in 1977; Mother Seton was beatified in 1963 and canonized in 1975. Hence, they could not have been on any 1962 Calendar. Does anyone know if their feasts were included by Ecclesia Dei or some other competent authority for the US? If I were to celebrate their feasts, where would the texts of the Mass and the Breviary come from? If, from the common, where would I take Lesson III for Matins?

Thanks and God bless,

Fr. Boyd

The third Lesson for Matins is the 4th lesson given in the respective Common. I would imagine that the quickest way to verify the listing is to contact the FSSP themselves.

 

[FrRJBoyd]

And I guess on those times I could also pray the office of the dead?

The Office of the Dead is always said in addition to, and not in place of, the Office of the Day. The only exception is November 2, where it is the Office of the Day.

 

[FrRJBoyd]

The third Lesson for Matins is the 4th lesson given in the respective Common. I would imagine that the quickest way to verify the listing is to contact the FSSP themselves.

Thanks; but I’m with the FSSP in Pequannock and there is still some ambiguity. The priest who originally compiled the Ordo for us several years ago is no longer with the FSSP, and we’re not sure where he obtained the listing for 3rd class feasts for the USA on January 4th and 5th. Ecclesia Dei had given sundry rulings that, to the best of my knowledge, are not compiled together in one place. It’s entirely possible Ecclesia Dei is the source.