Traditional Catholics and Women Cardinals

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Now that we have gotten used to the notion of a Pope Emeritus Is there room within the traditional catholic mindset to be open to women cardinals as it is theoretically possible to name women as cardinals. Cardinals do not have to be priests. Would this rock the traditional catholic world?

Trickster
Bruce Ferguson
 
Unless the Pope reforms the Code of Canon law with regards to Cardinal eligibility I see no “theoretical” possibility to elect any lay people to that role.
And unless I am mistaken women cannot be ordained priests so that is a no go either.
Where do you get the notion that “Cardinals do not have to be priest”?
Can. 350 §1. The college of cardinals is divided into three orders: the episcopal order, to which belong cardinals to whom the Roman Pontiff assigns title of a suburbicarian church and Eastern patriarchs who have been brought into the college of cardinals; the presbyteral order and the diaconal order.
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Unless I am totally mistaken all 3 require the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

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trickster said:
Now that we have gotten used to the notion of a Pope Emeritus Is there room within the traditional catholic mindset to be open to women cardinals as it is theoretically possible to name women as cardinals. Cardinals do not have to be priests. Would this rock the traditional catholic world?

Trickster
Bruce Ferguson
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To answer your question, sort of, Pope Francis wont be appointing women cardinals, though he could.

catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=53058
 
It wouldn’t rock my world, but I would foresee a two-class system of cardinals in that case, cardinals who are clerics and those who are not. I don’t know if lay cardinals in the past were viewed as “less” than other cardinals, but because of modern communications, if this were to happen today I think that would also be the case.
 
Back in the Middle Ages, cardinals were judged based on their family’s influence and amount of money, not whether they could celebrate Mass. So usually, the status of cleric didn’t matter. 👍
 
JerryZ said:
He is the Law Giver.
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Yikes, don’t get too carried away with your defense… He should only be transmitting the Will of God like every other bishop - preservers of orthodoxy rather than innovators.

Anyway, I don’t think lay cardinals will be returned. In one of my college history classes there was an interesting section on princes and their roles in electing popes but I think secular cardinals are a concept that won’t return for various reasons.
 
From your point of view, should there be “room within the traditional catholic mindset to be open to women cardinals”? What benefits do you see?
 
JerryZ said:

Worse! He is the Law Giver. Read my first line.​

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Last I checked, only Moses was the Law Giver, and Christ, as the Son of God and one of the Trinity, was the new Law Giver. “Vicar of Christ” is a title, to watch over his flock until Christ returns. Surely you are not removing “Vicar of” in Francis of Rome’s title and leaving him with “Christ” are you?
 
trickster said:
Now that we have gotten used to the notion of a Pope Emeritus Is there room within the traditional catholic mindset to be open to women cardinals as it is theoretically possible to name women as cardinals. Cardinals do not have to be priests. Would this rock the traditional catholic world?

Trickster
Bruce Ferguson
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Actually Cardinals do have to be priest so women Cardinals isn’t possibles
 
Loving_disciple said:
Actually Cardinals do have to be priest so women Cardinals isn’t possibles
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Cardinals have to be ordained men (first); but that is only a matter of Canon law; it is not something intrinsic to priesthood.

And because it is part of Canon law and not a doctrinal matter, it is at least in theory possible that the law could be changed.

So it is correct that at least in theory, women could be made Cardinals. Which is another way of saying that it is possible; but only if the law were changed.
 
Loving_disciple said:
Actually Cardinals do have to be priest so women Cardinals isn’t possibles
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What is your source for that statement? Cause if that were the case, then it would not be theoretically possible to appoint women cardinals… and the church itself admits that theoretical potential…

Trickster
 
otjm said:
Cardinals have to be ordained men (first); but that is only a matter of Canon law; it is not something intrinsic to priesthood.

And because it is part of Canon law and not a doctrinal matter, it is at least in theory possible that the law could be changed.

So it is correct that at least in theory, women could be made Cardinals. Which is another way of saying that it is possible; but only if the law were changed.
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That is extremely helpful…thank you otjm
 
AlexPetrosPio said:
Last I checked, only Moses was the Law Giver, and Christ, as the Son of God and one of the Trinity, was the new Law Giver. “Vicar of Christ” is a title, to watch over his flock until Christ returns. Surely you are not removing “Vicar of” in Francis of Rome’s title and leaving him with “Christ” are you?
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But the Pope has the right to institute laws governing the Church not inconsistent with the moral law, that is, God’s laws direct. This right is, subject to those constraints, otherwise absolute, it seems. He can of course, further dispense from the laws, again, if a dispensation would not militate against the moral law.

So for example, the Pope could theoretically in a certain case dispense of the ordination requirement to make someone a cardinal. I doubt he would do it, but theroretically it’s possible.
 
AlexPetrosPio said:
Last I checked, only Moses was the Law Giver, and Christ, as the Son of God and one of the Trinity, was the new Law Giver. “Vicar of Christ” is a title, to watch over his flock until Christ returns. Surely you are not removing “Vicar of” in Francis of Rome’s title and leaving him with “Christ” are you?
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OK, maybe I needed to be clearer in my post, where I referenced the “Code of Canon Law” which in it’s present form requires that Cardinals be of the Holy Orders ranks. There are 3 types of Cardinals (Bishop, Priest, Deacon)

The Pope is the “Law Giver” since he is the sole authority that can modify the “Code of Canon Law”

I make no connection or referrals to “Law of Moses” the “Moral Law” or any other “Laws”.

For this discussion the only relevant law is the one I mentioned.
The Pope is also above the Law (Code of Canon Law), as he can at any time decide to make an exception to any article of the Canon that is not connected or affected by the other “laws”. What Catholics term as “Discipines of the Church”.
A perfect example: He can dispense a Priest from celibacy.
However as stated in my previous response, decisions are not taken in a vacuum, when they have repercussions in other affairs of the Church.
The College of Cardinals main task is to appoint a new Pope and the new Pope is selected from the College of Cardinal.
If a new type of Cardinal is needed allowing for lay members (including women) then a reform of the way Popes are elected is required.

While possible I won’t hold my breath over this. Pie in the sky scenarios is a waste of time in my mind, time which could be better spent figuring out how to better transmit Jesus message and how to become better Catholics, something that our current Pope is worried about.

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alwayslooking said:
If I’m not mistaken, the pope is above canon law.
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Yes and No. The Pope is bound by Divine Law, so those elements of Canon Law that are also Divine Law the Pope is subject to. That means no ordination of woman. That also means that while theoretically a woman can become a cardinal with the appropriate changes to Canon Law, the woman will not receive Holy Orders, nor be a Bishop, nor ever be a Pope.
 
TheWarriorMonk said:
Yes and No. The Pope is bound by Divine Law, so those elements of Canon Law that are also Divine Law the Pope is subject to. That means no ordination of woman. That also means that while theoretically a woman can become a cardinal with the appropriate changes to Canon Law, the woman will not receive Holy Orders, nor be a Bishop, nor ever be a Pope.
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Right. It would render the woman able to elect the Pope and impose on her the duty of rendering advice to the Pope when called upon, but could neither be ordained, or be elected Pope.

Of course, this is, as I have said before, unlikely to even be an issue.
 
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