Traditional Catholics are not representing the Catholic Faith

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I have to agree with the other posters, you should switch to another church that is in line with Catholic teachings and the faith. My husband and I are in a similar situation when we moved from a very conservative parish to our new one. We went to several churches and the Masses do not seem licit, and I know for a fact the priests do not teach solid Catholic beliefs. One priest told my sister it was okay to use birth control as long as she prayed about it! My husband and I called our old priest and he recommended some solid Churches. We are limited to one Church and the Mass is only at one time, so it’s a lot more “trouble,” but it’s worth it. I think it’s wrong to support a Church that is not solid and teaching the true Catholic faith.
 
I think you should look for a traditional parish. My husband and I were uncomfortable with the parishes in our area; they ranged from lukewarm to extremely progressive. He looked online & found a parish that offers Tridentine high and low, plus the Missa Normativa in Latin and English. We are delighted with this parish, and make the half hour to 45 minute trip each week. We are not the only ones; we’ve heard that people come from other states to attend Mass at this parish.

I’ve also found that this parish is the most active, friendly, vibrant parish I’ve ever seen. EVERYONE is very friendly, and they have a library and classes in Latin and Greek for adults; they even have a cafe, where you can socialize. Oh, and as for their “priest shortage”? They don’t have enough room for all of them!

IMO, these parishes will proliferate in years to come. The “Young Fogeys” are coming of age, and they will return the Church to Itself. The pews at my parish are full of young families with 4 and 5 and 6 children, who don’t look unhappy to be there.
 
Oh, and as for their “priest shortage”? They don’t have enough room for all of them!
QUOTE]

I’ve often thought the same thing. My husband read the book Goodbye, Good Men and it addressed this as well. In most of the liberal parishes, they can’t get priests, but in the conservative parishes, they have an abundance of priests. When a priest is “lukewarm” or liberal, it undermines Church teachings, and ultimately the parishoners feel the lack of commitment and devotion. Thus, the parishoners become “lukewarm” themselves.
 
This may sound very hostile and angry but , but this is the problem I have everyday with calling myself Catholic… it seems all we bicker about is ritual and pomp. " I dont like the way my priest does this or the way he said that" we should be ashamed of ourselves because our religion is about loving Jesus and God, in turn feeding the hungry, clothing the naked. You all get my point. Is not a poor dirt floor shanty church in a third world county as loved and holy as our gold adorned Cathedrals??? Jesus cared not about pamphlets, statuary and adornments.

Sorry to sound hostile and I know not many will agree with me but its just my two cents.
 
This may sound very hostile and angry but , but this is the problem I have everyday with calling myself Catholic… it seems all we bicker about is ritual and pomp. " I dont like the way my priest does this or the way he said that" we should be ashamed of ourselves because our religion is about loving Jesus and God, in turn feeding the hungry, clothing the naked. You all get my point. Is not a poor dirt floor shanty church in a third world county as loved and holy as our gold adorned Cathedrals??? Jesus cared not about pamphlets, statuary and adornments.

Sorry to sound hostile and I know not many will agree with me but its just my two cents.
This is from the OP:
The pastor doesn’t like confession, our associate believes woman should be priest, our DRE doesn’t even consider the “real presence” of Christ the most important thing at the Mass.
Is that about ritual and pomp?
 
This may sound very hostile and angry but , but this is the problem I have everyday with calling myself Catholic… it seems all we bicker about is ritual and pomp. " I dont like the way my priest does this or the way he said that" we should be ashamed of ourselves because our religion is about loving Jesus and God, in turn feeding the hungry, clothing the naked. You all get my point. Is not a poor dirt floor shanty church in a third world county as loved and holy as our gold adorned Cathedrals??? Jesus cared not about pamphlets, statuary and adornments.

Sorry to sound hostile and I know not many will agree with me but its just my two cents.

I am sad to say — you come across as a member of the Neocatechumenal Way. Don’t know whether you are or not – but by your post – it seems there has been Neocatechumenal “catechesis” along the —way. It is all about horizontalism --turning the Church sideways into just a social service institution and have no use for the “ritual and pomp” that conveys glory to God.
 
That just in itself doesnt sound like a Catholic Church. This should be reported to the Hierarchy as it is set in place to do. If she isnt up to the task of moving the mountain herself she should seek others who is responsible for these actions.
 
are there other parishes nearby, or are you stuck with this one? it sounds like you have made a huge, good-faith effort to try and inject actual catholicism into the parish life - and you were shot down. a friend of mine once told me, when it comes to church politics, you only have so many shots you can fire, so choose wisely. you may have fired all your shots, and now people will just write-off any future efforts to help this dying parish.

my vote would be to move on, if possible. you have done more than most, and god would be pleased with your efforts if they were done in a spirit of charity.

many parishes out there have totally missed the point of catholicism. it’s not to end unjust social structures that oppress the poor man (though that is a good thing to do), its primary purpose is to save souls from hell.
Yessss! 👍
 
This may sound very hostile and angry but , but this is the problem I have everyday with calling myself Catholic… it seems all we bicker about is ritual and pomp. " I dont like the way my priest does this or the way he said that" we should be ashamed of ourselves because our religion is about loving Jesus and God, in turn feeding the hungry, clothing the naked. You all get my point. Is not a poor dirt floor shanty church in a third world county as loved and holy as our gold adorned Cathedrals??? Jesus cared not about pamphlets, statuary and adornments.

Sorry to sound hostile and I know not many will agree with me but its just my two cents.
Unfortunately, that is a large percentage of what you will find at CAF. I agree one hundred percent with your comments.

I attended Mass in a small eastern Oklahoma parish last weekend. It would have made the cathedral-huggers cringe. But the people were sincere, and truly loved God. They didn’t have an organist, but they made do. While it wasn’t a “show”, it was nonetheless, MASS.

Participating at CAF often reminds me how Jesus loved to take on the Scribes and Pharisees, with all their pomp and rules. Whenever I get frustrated here, I go to the Gospels for a smile

👍
 
You may think this is sad but let see what John Paul II thinks about this train of thought…

LETTER “Ogniqualvolta”
OF HIS HOLINESS’ POPE JOHN PAUL II
TO BROTHER BISHOP PAUL JOSEF CORDES
August 30 th 1990

TO OUR VENERABLE BROTHER BISHOP
PAUL JOSEF CORDES VICE PRESIDENT
OF THE PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR THE LAITY
APPOINTED “AD PERSONAM” FOR THE APOSTOLATE
OF THE NEOCATECHUMENAL COMMUNITIES

Every time the Holy Spirit causes to germinate in the Church impulses for greater faithfulness to the Gospel, there flourish new charisms, which manifest these realities, and new institutions which put them into practice. Thus it was after the Council of Trent and after the Second Vatican Council.

Among the realities generated by the Spirit in our days, figure the Neocatechumenal Communities, initiated by Mr K Argüello and Ms C Hernandez (Madrid, Spain), the effectiveness of which for the renewal of Christian life was acclaimed by my predecessor, Paul VI, as a fruit of the Council: "How much joy and how much hope you give us by your presence and by your activity… To live and to promote this re-awakening is what you call a way “after baptism”, which will be able to renew in today’s christian communities those effects of maturity and deepening that, in the primitive Church, were realized by the period of preparation for Baptism (Paul VI to the Neocatechumenal Communities, General Audience, 8th May 1974, in NOTITIAE 96-96, 1974, 230).

I too, as Bishop of Rome, have been able to verify the copious fruits of personal conversion and fruitful missionary impulse in the many meetings I have had in the Roman parishes with the Neocatechumenal Communities and their Pastors, as well as in my apostolic journeys in many nations.

These Communities make visible in the parishes the sign of the missionary church and they strive to open a way for the evangelization of those who have almost abandoned the christian life, offering them an itinerary of a catechumenal type which goes through all those stages that the catechumens went through in the primitive church before receiving the sacrament of Baptism: it brings them back to the Church and to Christ (cf. `Postbaptismal Catechumenate’ in NOTITIAE 96-96, 1974, 229). The announcement of the Gospel, the witnessing in small communities and the eucharistic celebration in groups (cf. Notification on the celebration of groups of the Neocatechumenal Way in L’OSSERVATORE ROMANO - 24th December 1988) is that which enables the members to put themselves at the service of the renewal of the Church.

Many Brothers in the Episcopate have acknowledged the fruits of this “Way”. I want only to recall Mons. Casimiro Morcillo, the then Bishop of Madrid, in whose diocese and under whose government the Neocatechumenal Communities - which he welcomed with so much love - were born in the year 1964.

After over twenty years of the life of these communities, spread throughout the five continents:
  • taking into account the new vitality which animates the parishes, the missionary impulse and the fruits of conversion which spring from the dedication of the itinerants and, lately, from the work of the families which evangelize in dechristianised areas of Europe and of the whole world;
welcoming the request addressed to me, I acknowledge the Neocatechumenal Way as an itinerary of Catholic formation, valid for our society and for our times.

It is therefore my wish that the Brothers in the Episcopate - together with their presbyters - value and support this work for the new evangelization so that it may be implemented according to the lines proposed by its initiators, in the spirit of service to the local Ordinary and in communion with him in the context of the unity of the local church and the universal Church.

From the Vatican, 30th August 1990, 12th year of the Pontificate.

John Paul II
 
Unfortunately, that is a large percentage of what you will find at CAF. I agree one hundred percent with your comments.

I attended Mass in a small eastern Oklahoma parish last weekend. It would have made the cathedral-huggers cringe. But the people were sincere, and truly loved God. They didn’t have an organist, but they made do. While it wasn’t a “show”, it was nonetheless, MASS.

Participating at CAF often reminds me how Jesus loved to take on the Scribes and Pharisees, with all their pomp and rules. Whenever I get frustrated here, I go to the Gospels for a smile

👍
Please see post #45.
 
I don’t understand the arguement. If a Mass is legitimate then what matter is it how it is done.:confused:
 
are there other parishes nearby, or are you stuck with this one? it sounds like you have made a huge, good-faith effort to try and inject actual catholicism into the parish life - and you were shot down. a friend of mine once told me, when it comes to church politics, you only have so many shots you can fire, so choose wisely. you may have fired all your shots, and now people will just write-off any future efforts to help this dying parish.

my vote would be to move on, if possible. you have done more than most, and god would be pleased with your efforts if they were done in a spirit of charity.

many parishes out there have totally missed the point of catholicism. it’s not to end unjust social structures that oppress the poor man (though that is a good thing to do), its primary purpose is to save souls from hell.
Serve righteousness and justice for all.
I believe to save souls from hell is to do what God asks of us all to do and what Jesus showed and taught us simply to feed the hungry, take care of the widows, orphans, visit me when I am in prision etc. Jesus said you fed me when I was hungry, you gave me water to drink when I was thirsty, you visited me when I was in prison. Forgive one another as I have forgiven. Love your enemies has yourself is that not what Jesus did? Jesus is King of Kings and we were all his enemies because of ours sins. We were murders, liars, thefts, adulters, greedy, jealous, lustful etc. Jesus loved us, he was humble, showed humility and suffered the worst agony of death for our sins and paid our debts in full…once and for all…it is finished. Jesus was never boastful of self but did all that was pleasing to God his heavenly Father.

That is what I believe we and our churches should be doing preaching the gospel and doing charity.This and only this way is the salvation of a soul can be saved and found pleasing to God. No one in any community should be hungry, poor or without period! St. Paul beware of idols!

God Bless
 
You may think this is sad but let see what John Paul II thinks about this train of thought…

LETTER “Ogniqualvolta”
OF HIS HOLINESS’ POPE JOHN PAUL II
TO BROTHER BISHOP PAUL JOSEF CORDES
August 30 th 1990

TO OUR VENERABLE BROTHER BISHOP
PAUL JOSEF CORDES VICE PRESIDENT
OF THE PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR THE LAITY
APPOINTED “AD PERSONAM” FOR THE APOSTOLATE
OF THE NEOCATECHUMENAL COMMUNITIES

Every time the Holy Spirit causes to germinate in the Church impulses for greater faithfulness to the Gospel, there flourish new charisms, which manifest these realities, and new institutions which put them into practice. Thus it was after the Council of Trent and after the Second Vatican Council.

Among the realities generated by the Spirit in our days, figure the Neocatechumenal Communities, initiated by Mr K Argüello and Ms C Hernandez (Madrid, Spain), the effectiveness of which for the renewal of Christian life was acclaimed by my predecessor, Paul VI, as a fruit of the Council: "How much joy and how much hope you give us by your presence and by your activity… To live and to promote this re-awakening is what you call a way “after baptism”, which will be able to renew in today’s christian communities those effects of maturity and deepening that, in the primitive Church, were realized by the period of preparation for Baptism (Paul VI to the Neocatechumenal Communities, General Audience, 8th May 1974, in NOTITIAE 96-96, 1974, 230).

I too, as Bishop of Rome, have been able to verify the copious fruits of personal conversion and fruitful missionary impulse in the many meetings I have had in the Roman parishes with the Neocatechumenal Communities and their Pastors, as well as in my apostolic journeys in many nations.

These Communities make visible in the parishes the sign of the missionary church and they strive to open a way for the evangelization of those who have almost abandoned the christian life, offering them an itinerary of a catechumenal type which goes through all those stages that the catechumens went through in the primitive church before receiving the sacrament of Baptism: it brings them back to the Church and to Christ (cf. `Postbaptismal Catechumenate’ in NOTITIAE 96-96, 1974, 229). The announcement of the Gospel, the witnessing in small communities and the eucharistic celebration in groups (cf. Notification on the celebration of groups of the Neocatechumenal Way in L’OSSERVATORE ROMANO - 24th December 1988) is that which enables the members to put themselves at the service of the renewal of the Church.

Many Brothers in the Episcopate have acknowledged the fruits of this “Way”. I want only to recall Mons. Casimiro Morcillo, the then Bishop of Madrid, in whose diocese and under whose government the Neocatechumenal Communities - which he welcomed with so much love - were born in the year 1964.

After over twenty years of the life of these communities, spread throughout the five continents:
  • taking into account the new vitality which animates the parishes, the missionary impulse and the fruits of conversion which spring from the dedication of the itinerants and, lately, from the work of the families which evangelize in dechristianised areas of Europe and of the whole world;
welcoming the request addressed to me, I acknowledge the Neocatechumenal Way as an itinerary of Catholic formation, valid for our society and for our times.

It is therefore my wish that the Brothers in the Episcopate - together with their presbyters - value and support this work for the new evangelization so that it may be implemented according to the lines proposed by its initiators, in the spirit of service to the local Ordinary and in communion with him in the context of the unity of the local church and the universal Church.

From the Vatican, 30th August 1990, 12th year of the Pontificate.

John Paul II

In case you did not know — it was our late Pope John Paul II --who called for the commission that led to the Church declaring that the Neocatechumenals stop with some of their practices --which She deemed were not appropriate—like communion sitting. So towards the end of Pope John Paul II’s papacy --he realized not all was “peachy” with the Neocatechumenal Way.
 
Planter654…No truer words have I heard from any person today online or otherwise.

As for the “Communion sitting”, I am not a part of the Neocatechumenal Way. But this only confirms my sentiment as letting something like “Communal sitting” be a part of this or any other argument…Do you think Jesus cares how you receive his body and blood? Honestly? Standing, Sitting ? or is it us who care how a ritual is performed, so we can feel special about the particulars…

What about a person in a wheel chair? or bed ridden?
 
Planter654…No truer words have I heard from any person today online or otherwise.

As for the “Communion sitting”, I am not a part of the Neocatechumenal Way. But this only confirms my sentiment as letting something like “Communal sitting” be a part of this or any other argument…Do you think Jesus cares how you receive his body and blood? Honestly? Standing, Sitting ? or is it us who care how a ritual is performed, so we can feel special about the particulars…

What about a person in a wheel chair? or bed ridden?

Our Lord said — He who hears you (the Church) hears me. So if the Church says no more sitting —Our Lord speaks. Your continued comments reflect-- a limited understanding of Church in relation to our Lord Christ — and the Mass in relation to our Lord.

A person in a wheel chair/bed ridden — are circumstances that do not apply to the general population that can stand and/or kneel.
 

I am sad to say — you come across as a member of the Neocatechumenal Way. Don’t know whether you are or not – but by your post – it seems there has been Neocatechumenal “catechesis” along the —way. It is all about horizontalism --turning the Church sideways into just a social service institution and have no use for the “ritual and pomp” that conveys glory to God.
I ask with no disrespect but you asked us are we turning the Church sideways into just a social service institution and have no use for the “ritual and pomp” that conveys glory to God. This I ask if God said “you honour me with your lips, but your heart is far from me”

Jesus took "action’ he did not talk the talk but walked the walk did he not? We are not here not to glorify ourselves are we? We are here to glorify God are we not? How can we glorify God and give him praise, worship, honour and do what pleases him, I ask myself.

'Simply" do what Jesus taught and showed us. You gave me water when I was thirsty, you gave me food when I was hungry, you came and visited me when I was in prison, you clothed me when I had nothing, you took me in when I had no place to rest my head. Jesus washed the feet of his Apostles.

Jesus in his “humility and humbleness” was just not showing us how to serve, but also telling us. Look I am King of Kings I am the son of God. Jesus never, never, boasted of his authority given, but glorified, worship, honour God his Father and did all and accomplished all that he was sent to do and did so while we were his enemies liars, murders, thefts, adulter, lust etc! Jesus shed his body and blood for us! This to me is what truly gives worship, glory and honour to God! Is there not 12 hrs in a day to work Jesus said. Afterwards Jesus would go and pray at night.

Yes, not just with our lips! Its is just not the “ritual and pomp” you have spoken of that gives praise and glory to God, do you think?

God Bless
 
I ask with no disrespect but you asked us are we turning the Church sideways into just a social service institution and have no use for the “ritual and pomp” that conveys glory to God. This I ask if God said “you honour me with your lips, but your heart is far from me”

Jesus took "action’ he did not talk the talk but walked the walk did he not? We are not here not to glorify ourselves are we? We are here to glorify God are we not? How can we glorify God and give him praise, worship, honour and do what pleases him, I ask myself.

'Simply" do what Jesus taught and showed us. You gave me water when I was thirsty, you gave me food when I was hungry, you came and visited me when I was in prison, you clothed me when I had nothing, you took me in when I had no place to rest my head. Jesus washed the feet of his Apostles.

Jesus in his “humility and humbleness” was just not showing us how to serve, but also telling us. Look I am King of Kings I am the son of God. Jesus never, never, boasted of his authority given, but glorified, worship, honour God his Father and did all and accomplished all that he was sent to do and did so while we were his enemies liars, murders, thefts, adulter, lust etc! Jesus shed his body and blood for us! This to me is what truly gives worship, glory and honour to God! Is there not 12 hrs in a day to work Jesus said. Afterwards Jesus would go and pray at night.

Yes, not just with our lips! Its is just not the “ritual and pomp” you have spoken of that gives praise and glory to God, do you think?

God Bless

Helping the poor, the sick, the hungry --has always been part of the Church’s life and the people in it. It is not something that popped up the last 40 yrs. Giving to our Creator – all that we can give – which includes our worship with ritual and pomp is part of being who we are. We should not short change our Lord and our God — just as we should not short change in helping those in need.
 
Do you think Jesus cares how you receive his body and blood?
Yes, I know this because the Church tells us just that.
Honestly? Standing, Sitting ? or is it us who care how a ritual is performed, so we can feel special about the particulars…
If we do not care how the mass is celebrated or if we do not try to abide by how the Church asks us to act then I am wondering what is your standard?
What about a person in a wheel chair? or bed ridden?
They are dispensed due to their infirimity.
 

Helping the poor, the sick, the hungry --has always been part of the Church’s life and the people in it. It is not something that popped up the last 40 yrs. Giving to our Creator – all that we can give – which includes our worship with ritual and pomp is part of being who we are. We should not short change our Lord and our God — just as we should not short change in helping those in need.
Yes this has ALWAYS been a part of the churches life…from Day 1 literally…But what hasnt been a part from day 1? pretty much everything…Im not opposing the Church dont get me wrong…But what HAS popped up in the past 40 years? things change day by day year by year…

Walking home…you make a strong argument, and I see where you are coming from. I dont expect anyone to agree with me at all in my views, and it is pretty that alot dont…but we must focus not on what makes us different but what makes us alike…and that is our love of the LORD

“If you cannot feed one thousand people, feed one”- Mother Theresa

God Bless and May peace be with you
 
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