Traditional Catholics are not representing the Catholic Faith

[Brother_John]

Please see post #45.

That’s the opinion of ONE pastor. That pastor does not speak for all other pastors/priests.

That’s like saying that one pedophile priest makes all priests pedophiles, which of course, is absurd.

Traditional apologists are great for using isolated incidents and persons to indict the entire Church, post-Vatican II.

 

[planter654]

I would love to see the shepherds of the flock do what Jesus did. Jesus did not stay in the temple all day, Jesus went out to the poor, hungry, thirsty and preached in the communities. Had supper with them, visited homes, prayed with them, answered their questions heard their sufferings, knew their needs etc.

Today it is hard to even get an appointment with a priest in our own community. When I was young, priest came over for supper etc. I find this sad, the priest is so busy with so many things and it must be very difficult for them.

I mean no disrespect but, St. Peter baptized over 3,000 people in one day. Have we made it difficult for ourselves. Our churches are becoming empty why? Please I am not judging but pray pray for our shepherds our priest etc. We are all called to become Saints, Holy. I am just confused by the title of this topic Traditional Catholics are not representing…We need to search our own souls and ask ourselves… why?

God Bless

 

[Izatright]

I would love to see the shepherds of the flock do what Jesus did. Jesus did not stay in the temple all day, Jesus went out to the poor, hungry, thirsty and preached in the communities. Had supper with them, visited homes, prayed with them, answered their questions heard their sufferings, knew their needs etc.

Today it is hard to even get an appointment with a priest in our own community. When I was young, priest came over for supper etc. I find this sad, the priest is so busy with so many things and it must be very difficult for them.

I mean no disrespect but, St. Peter baptized over 3,000 people in one day. Have we made it difficult for ourselves. Our churches are becoming empty why? Please I am not judging but pray pray for our shepherds our priest etc. We are all called to become Saints, Holy. I am just confused by the title of this topic Traditional Catholics are not representing…We need to search our own souls and ask ourselves… why?

God Bless

Try to Baptise even ONE baby today …talk about jumping through hoops just to get an appointment…and dont even think about it if you cant afford the “mandatory” donation…

I dont hate my church…its just hard to love it…and please dont try to relate my problems with the church to my Love of the Lord and my faith…To me, Jesus does not live in Brick, Mortar, Robes and rituals …he lives in my heart

 

[Walking_Home]

Yes this has ALWAYS been a part of the churches life…from Day 1 literally…But what hasnt been a part from day 1? pretty much everything…Im not opposing the Church dont get me wrong…But what HAS popped up in the past 40 years? things change day by day year by year…

Walking home…you make a strong argument, and I see where you are coming from. I dont expect anyone to agree with me at all in my views, and it is pretty that alot dont…but we must focus not on what makes us different but what makes us alike…and that is our love of the LORD

“If you cannot feed one thousand people, feed one”- Mother Theresa

God Bless and May peace be with you

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I have family members that say they love the Lord --yet they are protestant. So differences do matter. I love them non the less.

I find my view in this matter in line with our late Pope John Paul II —how about you --since you did bring him up.

John Paul II —Ecclesia de Eucharistia

adoremus.org/EcclesiaDeEucharistia.html#anchor566973

1. Like the woman who anointed Jesus in Bethany, the Church has feared no “extravagance”, devoting the best of her resources to expressing her wonder and adoration before the unsurpassable gift of the Eucharist. No less than the first disciples charged with preparing the “large upper room”, she has felt the need, down the centuries and in her encounters with different cultures, to celebrate the Eucharist in a setting worthy of so great a mystery. In the wake of Jesus’ own words and actions, and building upon the ritual heritage of Judaism, the Christian liturgy was born. Could there ever be an adequate means of expressing the acceptance of that self-gift which the divine Bridegroom continually makes to His Bride, the Church, by bringing the Sacrifice offered once and for all on the Cross to successive generations of believers and thus becoming nourishment for all the faithful? Though the idea of a “banquet” naturally suggests familiarity, the Church has never yielded to the temptation to trivialize this “intimacy” with her Spouse by forgetting that He is also her Lord and that the “banquet” always remains a sacrificial banquet marked by the blood shed on Golgotha. The Eucharistic Banquet is truly a “sacred” banquet, in which the simplicity of the signs conceals the unfathomable holiness of God: O sacrum convivium, in quo Christus sumitur! The bread which is broken on our altars, offered to us as wayfarers along the paths of the world, is panis angelorum, the bread of angels, which cannot be approached except with the humility of the centurion in the Gospel: "Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof " (Mt 8:8; Lk 7:6).

49.** With this heightened sense of mystery, we understand how the faith of the Church in the mystery of the Eucharist has found historical expression not only in the demand for an interior disposition of devotion, but also in outward forms meant to evoke and emphasize the grandeur of the event being celebrated. **This led progressively to the development of a particular form of regulating the Eucharistic Liturgy, with due respect for the various legitimately constituted ecclesial traditions. On this foundation a rich artistic heritage also developed. Architecture, sculpture, painting and music, moved by the Christian mystery, have found in the Eucharist, both directly and indirectly, a source of great inspiration.

Such was the case, for example, with architecture, which witnessed the transition, once the historical situation made it possible, from the first places of Eucharistic celebration in the domus or “homes” of Christian families to the solemn basilicas of the early centuries, to the imposing cathedrals of the Middle Ages, and to the churches, large and small, which gradually sprang up throughout the lands touched by Christianity. The designs of altars and tabernacles within Church interiors were often not simply motivated by artistic inspiration but also by a clear understanding of the mystery. The same could be said for sacred music, if we but think of the inspired Gregorian melodies and the many, often great, composers who sought to do justice to the liturgical texts of the Mass. Similarly, can we overlook the enormous quantity of artistic production, ranging from fine craftsmanship to authentic works of art, in the area of Church furnishings and vestments used for the celebration of the Eucharist?

 

[CatholicCajun]

We have a great parish in the area and we have been supplementing our faith formation there. This parish had the Scott Hahn cds and lead us back into the church. But it is not as close as we would like. We are willing to make the sacrafice of the driving time, but thought we should try to spread the truth to our current parish.

Right now I feel that we are shunned from the leaders and we are seen as being “backwards”. I feel very bad that we are leaving and not helping our parish, but I am not a dynamic speaker or even have enough courage to speak up. I do things with suggestions.

My husband has actually when head to head with the leaders and they don’t like us.

Kind of reminds me of the advice Jesus gave to His disciples when they would be rejected for preaching the Gospel, leave that place and wipe the dust from your feet. God BLess you for your efforts, but there comes a time when you must do what is best for you and your children’s souls, go the the parish that brought you back to the Church and offer the extra distance as a sacrifice.

 

[Walking_Home]

Try to Baptise even ONE baby today …talk about jumping through hoops just to get an appointment…and dont even think about it if you cant afford the “mandatory” donation…

I dont hate my church…its just hard to love it…and please dont try to relate my problems with the church to my Love of the Lord and my faith…To me, Jesus does not live in Brick, Mortar, Robes and rituals …he lives in my heart

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Don’t know where you come from – but in different parishes/dioceses where I have had children baptized or been part of the process – no infant has been left without baptism --if the parents could not afford the donation.

 

[Izatright]

When I get to heaven, I will ask the Lord if he is pleased with this complex bureacracy that has been set up in his honor…Im not going to say he isnt…but let us all ponder that question…better yet, let us all see ourselves asking that question to him…I am not looking for an officially quoted reply on what the church says to be true or what we should think…I would like someone or everyone to honestly reflect on this and answer it in his or her own words…

 

[Aramis]

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Don’t know where you come from – but in different parishes/dioceses where I have had children baptized or been part of the process – no infant has been left without baptism --if the parents could not afford the donation.

I know one deacon who doesn’t ask for donations. (He gleefully accepts them…) If asked, the customary stipend for a baptism at his current parish is $25… but I know he’s gotten anywhere from $0 to $100… (He’s my Dad. That’s how I know. He usually spends his baptismal stipends on lunch with with family…)

It is also in canon law that the sacraments may not be charged for. So… when that kind of [excrement] is happening, write to the bishop.

 

[Walking_Home]

When I get to heaven, I will ask the Lord if he is pleased with this complex bureacracy that has been set up in his honor…Im not going to say he isnt…but let us all ponder that question…better yet, let us all see ourselves asking that question to him…I am not looking for an officially quoted reply on what the church says to be true or what we should think…I would like someone or everyone to honestly reflect on this and answer it in his or her own words…

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Our Lord —“He who hears you (the Church) – hears me”.

 

[Izatright]

Are those your own words?

 

[Walking_Home]

I know one deacon who doesn’t ask for donations. (He gleefully accepts them…) If asked, the customary stipend for a baptism at his current parish is $25… but I know he’s gotten anywhere from $0 to $100… (He’s my Dad. That’s how I know. He usually spends his baptismal stipends on lunch with with family…)

It is also in canon law that the sacraments may not be charged for. So… when that kind of [excrement] is happening, write to the bishop.

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Aramis – the donations I speak of --(if I remember right) are used to cover expenses --for example materials (exp. booklets) used in the Baptism prep classes for parents and godparents. And I know of no infant being turned away for parents not being able to contribute.

 

[Walking_Home]

Are those your own words?

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catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp

Scripture and Tradition

The Bible denies that it is sufficient as the complete rule of faith. Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2). He instructs us to “stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thess. 2:15).

This oral teaching was accepted by Christians, just as they accepted the written teaching that came to them later.** Jesus told his disciples: “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me” (Luke 10:16). The Church, in the persons of the apostles, was given the authority to teach by Christ; the Church would be his representative.** He commissioned them, saying, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations” (Matt. 28:19).

 

[Izatright]

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catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp

Scripture and Tradition

The Bible denies that it is sufficient as the complete rule of faith. Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2). He instructs us to “stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thess. 2:15).

This oral teaching was accepted by Christians, just as they accepted the written teaching that came to them later.** Jesus told his disciples: “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me” (Luke 10:16). The Church, in the persons of the apostles, was given the authority to teach by Christ; the Church would be his representative.** He commissioned them, saying, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations” (Matt. 28:19).

Walking Home, although it may seem I am trying to stir the pot and fan the flames. In fact I am not. Nor am I a partisan presenter with a weighted agenda

The major point I am trying to make with my posts is that many of us Catholics focus so much on what doesnt matter.

Yes it may have been written a few hundred years ago how to ring the bells and how to bake the bread and that is fine. Tradition is tradition.

The basis of my arguments come from Luke:18:2,10-14

 

[Walking_Home]

Walking Home, although it may seem I am trying to stir the pot and fan the flames. In fact I am not. Nor am I a partisan presenter with a weighted agenda

The major point I am trying to make with my posts is that many of us Catholics focus so much on what doesnt matter.

Yes it may have been written a few hundred years ago how to ring the bells and how to bake the bread and that is fine. Tradition is tradition.

The basis of my arguments come from Luke:18:2,10-14

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You see – that is the problem— you fail to see that what we offer to God does matter. We offer to Him the highest prayer known to man. He – within this prayer – offers Himself to us.

By the way —we are not protestants–to follow the self interpretation of scripture.

 

[planter654]

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Helping the poor, the sick, the hungry --has always been part of the Church’s life and the people in it. It is not something that popped up the last 40 yrs. Giving to our Creator – all that we can give – which includes our worship with ritual and pomp is part of being who we are. We should not short change our Lord and our God — just as we should not short change in helping those in need.

I point exactly! So why are you asking that question and saying that traditional Catholics are not representing the Catholic…worship with ritual and pomp? God bless

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home View Post
Helping the poor, the sick, the hungry --has always been part of the Church’s life and the people in it. It is not something that popped up the last 40 yrs. Giving to our Creator – all that we can give – which includes our worship with ritual and pomp is part of being who we are. We should not short change our Lord and our God — just as we should not short change in helping those in need.

I point exactly! So why are you asking that question and saying that traditional Catholics are not representing the Catholic…worship with ritual and pomp? God bless

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I don’t believe it was I who asked the question --or said that traditional Catholics are not representing the Catholic worship with ritual and pomp. I was responding to a another poster --who apparently may feels that the ritual and pomp --gets in the way of helping our fellow man.

 

[planter654]

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Aramis – the donations I speak of --(if I remember right) are used to cover expenses --for example materials (exp. booklets) used in the Baptism prep classes for parents and godparents. And I know of no infant being turned away for parents not being able to contribute.

What about our donations every Sunday where does that go not for these expenses also, just asking? I know envelopes are given also when couples get married also.

 

[catharina]

Our parish is very liberal and I wanted to know the opinions and advise of all you on what I need to concern myself with. I would consider our family as being “traditional/conservative/orthodox” Catholics. We are working to learn more about our faith and trying to get the discipline enough to be good Catholics.

I wanted to get more involved in leading our parish and forming an adult/child education that will bring them back to the true values of the catholic faith. I am on the adult formation committee thinking I can help spread good catholic teaching. I’ve brought to the attention to all the leaders of our church such as the pastor, DRE, pastoral associate and committee members good material such as Lighthouse Media with Scott Hahn cds, EWTN radio/TV, local radio programs and web sites to pass to our parishioners.

I am always told that it is not the focus of our parish for these materials or that these materials do not represent the catholic faith. I am very discouraged now and I feel that I can no longer be in this parish. The pastor doesn’t like confession, our associate believes woman should be priest, our DRE doesn’t even consider the “real presence” of Christ the most important thing at the Mass.

Has God given us this challenge to continue to voice our concerns and try to change our parish? Or do we make a compliant to the diocese and move on because we need to think about our children’s formation more. My son will be going into 2nd grade and working on First Communion and Penance, and I don’t want our parish community to break down what we are teaching at home. Even if we do pull out our children from the education program, he will be surrounded by the priest and other leaders voicing their want of change to modernize the faith.

Catholics learn the faith in many different ways. However this: “The pastor doesn’t like confession, our associate believes woman should be priest, our DRE doesn’t even consider the “real presence” of Christ the most important thing at the Mass” goes far beyond anything that is remotely acceptable. Since you’re asking for advice, mine is that you write to the Bishop, stating your concerns and find yourself a new parish as soon as possible.

 

[Walking_Home]

What about our donations every Sunday where does that go not for these expenses also, just asking? I know envelopes are given also when couples get married also.

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Yes our donations every Sunday contribute to expenses. There is the expense of maintaining the church building (interior,exterior), the grounds, parking lots, electricity, water, gas, the priest’s residence (exterior, interior), etc. Part of our donations – I believe also go to the diocese and help in setting and running programs. Part is used to help those in need and can include a separate donation specific for those in need of help.

Now – the envelopes given when couples get married–that I am not familiar with.

 

[fix]

That’s the opinion of ONE pastor. That pastor does not speak for all other pastors/priests.

No one said he did. The OP asks about this particular case and I read people claiming something about pomp and ritual. There is a disconnect.

That’s like saying that one pedophile priest makes all priests pedophiles, which of course, is absurd.

Traditional apologists are great for using isolated incidents and persons to indict the entire Church, post-Vatican II.

I think those who reject the traditionalist are great at claiming they are all about rejecting VII when that is inaccurate.