Traditional Discernment?

[notredame_999]

I thought it would be good to hear from some other traditional catholics on this. I’m a young man who is possibly considering priesthood, but I have some serious doubts to the type of priest I would wish to be if I decided to do it vs. the type of priest this post-vatican II church expects me to be. Currently I attend a Novus Ordo mass because the TLM is just too far from my home. However, the Novus Ordo mass I do go to is very traditional- alter rails for communion, no modern music, no holding hands, sermons on sin, hell, and Fatima. If I were to become a priest, this is the type of Novus Ordo mass I would say. In particular the alter rails is very important to me. I also disagree with the concept of lay eucharistic ministers and female alter servers. My sermons would often involve Fatima and devotion to Our Lady. As a priest would I be able to make these types of decisions in my mass? Another conept I dont get is the church becoming the bride of the Christ, as if Christ has or even needs a bride? Is that a doctrine that has always been taught? It should also be said that I have no intention of joining the SSPX until they are fully received back into communion with Rome, even though I agree with 99% of what they believe.

 

[Shin]

I thought it would be good to hear from some other traditional catholics on this. I’m a young man who is possibly considering priesthood, but I have some serious doubts to the type of priest I would wish to be if I decided to do it vs. the type of priest this post-vatican II church expects me to be. Currently I attend a Novus Ordo mass because the TLM is just too far from my home. However, the Novus Ordo mass I do go to is very traditional- alter rails for communion, no modern music, no holding hands, sermons on sin, hell, and Fatima. If I were to become a priest, this is the type of Novus Ordo mass I would say. In particular the alter rails is very important to me. I also disagree with the concept of lay eucharistic ministers and female alter servers. My sermons would often involve Fatima and devotion to Our Lady. As a priest would I be able to make these types of decisions in my mass? Another conept I dont get is the church becoming the bride of the Christ, as if Christ has or even needs a bride? Is that a doctrine that has always been taught? It should also be said that I have no intention of joining the SSPX until they are fully received back into communion with Rome, even though I agree with 99% of what they believe.

Try listening to the audio sermons below from the F.S.S.P. priests, and looking into them. The whole batch is worth downloading and putting on your playlist for catechesis. Their seminary is the one I think is most recommendable, though I have heard good things too about the Institute of Christ the King.

“And I John saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

Apocalypse 21:2

“And there came one of the seven angels, who had the vials full of the seven last plagues, and spoke with me, saying: Come, and I will shew thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”

Apocalypse 21:9

It’s a spiritual allegory. . . deep but it is not as if it were like regular marriage, which ends forever upon death.

 

[MarkThompson]

For the “Bride of Christ” issue, see here, for example. I’m not sure why that’s an issue for you. Is there any chance that what you were actually thinking of is the saying that priests are “married to the church”? If it is, then that’s not something the Church teaches and is not theologically meaningful, though it’s colloquially descriptive, at least in the western rite, of the priest’s sole devotion (hopefully) to serving the Church.

 

[Moscati]

While a homily on Fatima every now and then would be nice, I think your parishioners might appreciate some Biblical exegesis, or something about Our Lord too.

And yes, the Church being the Bride of Christ has always been taught. More references for you, if you’re interested.

“For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.” Isaiah 62:4-6

“Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.” Matthew 25:1 (part of Jesus’ parable in which the Church is told to be ready for the Bridegroom’s return)

“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Rev. 22:17

 

[notredame_999]

For the “Bride of Christ” issue, see here, for example. I’m not sure why that’s an issue for you. Is there any chance that what you were actually thinking of is the saying that priests are “married to the church”? If it is, then that’s not something the Church teaches and is not theologically meaningful, though it’s colloquially descriptive, at least in the western rite, of the priest’s sole devotion (hopefully) to serving the Church.

Yes being “married to church” as you said is what I originally intended.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

If you became a regular diocesan priest, you would be expected to be obedient to the bishop and go where you’re sent. That parish may not have an altar rail or be accustomed to some of the things that are meaningful to you.

Any pastor could introduce some traditional practices such as reverent silence in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament; perpetual adoration, the miraculous medal novena, more Latin in the mass, some Gregorian chant in addition to more modern liturgical music, etc, as well as some of the other things your mention. They have a good bit of freedom for the homilies, which should relate to the scripture readings at mass. Homilies about Our Lady are appropriate, but not specifically about Fatima. Of course, you might not start out as a pastor…

You say: I’m a young man who is possibly considering priesthood, but I have some serious doubts to the type of priest I would wish to be if I decided to do it vs. the type of priest this post-vatican II church expects me to be. This sounds a little disrespectful to me. If God calls you, you should wish to be the kind of priest He wants you to be. The post Vatican II church needs holy priests who want to give themselves completely to God and to His people, not an easy vocation but I see many joyful priests both young and old. I think my diocese may be particularly blessed in its priests.

If you decide you might like to be a secular priest, rather than the member of an order, look for a diocese that’s known to be faithful to the magisterium and apply there. Some have particularly good reputations, some don’t. Pray that God will guide you to where He wants you to end up. I hope that, if this is your vocation, you will be a holy and compassionate priest. God bless you for considering the priesthood.

 

[rwoehmke]

I
If you decide you might like to be a secular priest, rather than the member of an order, look for a diocese that’s known to be faithful to the magisterium and apply there. Some have particularly good reputations, some don’t. Pray that God will guide you to where He wants you to end up. I hope that, if this is your vocation, you will be a holy and compassionate priest. God bless you for considering the priesthood.

Be aware that as a secular priest, you may serve under as many as three or four Bishops during the years of your service. I have several priest friends who recently retired. they have had three different Bishops in this diocese. We got a fourth just last year. Each one has been different in how they rule and place their emphasis.

 

[giuseppeTO]

All good advice in the previous posts. If you have traditional leanings, you might consider applying to a diocese with a like-minded bishop. There are a few here in the US - the diocese of Raleigh comes to mind as an example. You will need to be obedient to the bishop and understand that the current bishop’s successor may have a different disposition than his predecessor. As you stated, the SSPX should not be one of your options at this point in time given its current canonical situation and the fact that you would need a recommendation from an SSPX priest to even visit the seminary.

I guess the most important advice I can give, with a son halfway through his seminary studies, is to avoid discerning your vocation to the priesthood until you are actually in the seminary. The proper place to discern is while in seminary studies and under the guidance of priestly spiritual directors who will partner with you on a continual basis to help you with an ongoing assessment of your vocation. You can only do this while separated from the world and in the seminary, free from worldly distractions. Mind you, you will have several years to decide and at any time along that journey, either you or your spiritual director may decide that your vocation is in an area other than the priesthood.

I believe it is practically every young woman and man’s duty to test his calling - but that is my personal opinion. It is typical at most SSPX schools for better than half of the graduating class to decide to test their vocations at either the seminary, monastery, or convent. Some only remain for 6 months, others perhaps a year. Seminary rectors are very astute in helping young folks determine their calling.

God bless you in your discernment.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I thought it would be good to hear from some other traditional catholics on this. I’m a young man who is possibly considering priesthood, but I have some serious doubts to the type of priest I would wish to be if I decided to do it vs. the type of priest this post-vatican II church expects me to be. Currently I attend a Novus Ordo mass because the TLM is just too far from my home. However, the Novus Ordo mass I do go to is very traditional- alter rails for communion, no modern music, no holding hands, sermons on sin, hell, and Fatima. If I were to become a priest, this is the type of Novus Ordo mass I would say. In particular the alter rails is very important to me. I also disagree with the concept of lay eucharistic ministers and female alter servers. My sermons would often involve Fatima and devotion to Our Lady. As a priest would I be able to make these types of decisions in my mass? Another conept I dont get is the church becoming the bride of the Christ, as if Christ has or even needs a bride? Is that a doctrine that has always been taught? It should also be said that I have no intention of joining the SSPX until they are fully received back into communion with Rome, even though I agree with 99% of what they believe.

my opinion is that if you go to NO seminar, most likey you end up anywhere celebrating the NO. you will not be pleased. i would suggest that you stick with the Traditional teachings of the Church. this is one way of bringing back the Church to its true teachings.

 

[jrs88]

Look into the FSSP or ICRSS. Or the Canons Regular of St.John Cantius.

 

[ljubim]

That’s wonderful

Just a word of warning: any traditional priest who’s sent to a regular Novus Ordo parish is in for trouble. The parishioners will have been there for decades, singing the same Haugen guitar songs, receiving the Eucharist in the hand, loudly talking before and after Mass (and during the sign of peace too!), and even not kneeling for the consecration, etc. Not to mention the choir might rely on guitar, piano if you’re lucky, as the backbone of all they know about music. The tabernacle also might be hidden somewhere, and you’ll be paying major renovation bucks to restore any sense of beauty to the building. It’s almost a lost cause for such change to come from the top, from the priest. It’s a very worthy cause, and God would be behind you, but you’ve got to consider if that’s something you’re up to. Spending maybe six, eight years in a seminary of questionable orthodoxy, away from Latin and chant and incense and altar rails… then you get assigned to a parish and all that matters is numbers and money. Once you change the parish, the collections will be smaller, parishioners will leave and will report to the bishop on your awful traditionalism. Then he’ll take up your case quicker than any about liturgical abuse, and you’ll be chastised a few times, and then relocated to some hole in the wall where he can keep his eye on you. A lot of priests, in my diocese, are sort of sneaking around in able to learn the TLM, and same goes for the seminarians. Our priest is so traditional in every way, I cannot understand how he survives in the same diocese as our bishop, unscathed He must be a fighter. He’s hinted in homilies at the struggle, and the intense suffering & alienation that priests go through to enforce the rules, or have tradition and reverence in their Masses. I cannot even imagine the pain. If that’s what you’re ready for, do it, but you’ll have to be so ready to suffer as much as Our Lord did that it might be better for your spiritual wellness (a lot of priests will just submit, against their better judgement, and forever be tormented that they are in such chains, just to remain in their parish and subtly help people.) to join the ICKSP (ICRSS in Latin ) or the FSSP. Both are incredible, thriving traditional orders where you’ll grow immensely in faith and be in a truly Catholic environment.

You are so blessed to have grown up in such a reverent Novus Ordo parish. But this is literally one in a million, and if you go to the TLM orders, you’ll be in the exact same environment and will be able to really grow spiritually.

 

[wisdomseeker]

That’s wonderful

Just a word of warning: any traditional priest who’s sent to a regular Novus Ordo parish is in for trouble. The parishioners will have been there for decades, singing the same Haugen guitar songs, receiving the Eucharist in the hand, loudly talking before and after Mass (and during the sign of peace too!), and even not kneeling for the consecration, etc. Not to mention the choir might rely on guitar, piano if you’re lucky, as the backbone of all they know about music. The tabernacle also might be hidden somewhere, and you’ll be paying major renovation bucks to restore any sense of beauty to the building. It’s almost a lost cause for such change to come from the top, from the priest. It’s a very worthy cause, and God would be behind you, but you’ve got to consider if that’s something you’re up to. Spending maybe six, eight years in a seminary of questionable orthodoxy, away from Latin and chant and incense and altar rails… then you get assigned to a parish and all that matters is numbers and money. Once you change the parish, the collections will be smaller, parishioners will leave and will report to the bishop on your awful traditionalism. Then he’ll take up your case quicker than any about liturgical abuse, and you’ll be chastised a few times, and then relocated to some hole in the wall where he can keep his eye on you. A lot of priests, in my diocese, are sort of sneaking around in able to learn the TLM, and same goes for the seminarians. Our priest is so traditional in every way, I cannot understand how he survives in the same diocese as our bishop, unscathed He must be a fighter. He’s hinted in homilies at the struggle, and the intense suffering & alienation that priests go through to enforce the rules, or have tradition and reverence in their Masses. I cannot even imagine the pain. If that’s what you’re ready for, do it, but you’ll have to be so ready to suffer as much as Our Lord did that it might be better for your spiritual wellness (a lot of priests will just submit, against their better judgement, and forever be tormented that they are in such chains, just to remain in their parish and subtly help people.) to join the ICKSP (ICRSS in Latin ) or the FSSP. Both are incredible, thriving traditional orders where you’ll grow immensely in faith and be in a truly Catholic environment.

You are so blessed to have grown up in such a reverent Novus Ordo parish. But this is literally one in a million, and if you go to the TLM orders, you’ll be in the exact same environment and will be able to really grow spiritually.

Except that if he goes to just any seminar, he might not learn the True faith and end up with waterdown Catholic teaching. that is the danger.

 

[Shin]

Ditto to the two above posts.

With the additional point that your seminary formation is so key as that it can easily determine not only your own eternal salvation but those of your parishioners, whom your own is tied to as a priest.

One key foundational flaw learned can do damage for a lifetime and longer. So… Go to a traditional seminary if you at all can.

F.S.S.P. is what I would say is probably best. Pray and discern.

 

[ljubim]

Ditto to the two above posts.

With the additional point that your seminary formation is so key as that it can easily determine not only your own eternal salvation but those of your parishioners, whom your own is tied to as a priest.

One key foundational flaw learned can do damage for a lifetime and longer. So… Go to a traditional seminary if you at all can.

F.S.S.P. is what I would say is probably best. Pray and discern.

Also, if you do follow through, let us know so we can pray for you!

 

[wisdomseeker]

Ditto to the two above posts.

With the additional point that your seminary formation is so key as that it can easily determine not only your own eternal salvation but those of your parishioners, whom your own is tied to as a priest.

One key foundational flaw learned can do damage for a lifetime and longer. So… Go to a traditional seminary if you at all can.

F.S.S.P. is what I would say is probably best. Pray and discern.

i agree. plus i just found out on the other thread that in these seminares priests are being tought by protestants ministers. how can that be? and one wonder why they have turned the CC into protestants churches.

 

[notredame_999]

Thank you for the responses. I’m still thinking and praying about this so I’m not sure yet. Lately my parents have been really concerned about me going to this traditional n.o. parish as they unfortunately have been brought up in that baby-boomer liberal catholic education era. On the first Saturday’s of the month when I admit I go to confession I can tell it really upsets them and makes them uncomftorable; it seems they have a hard time distinguishing the sacraments Christ founded from the scandulous errors and scandals pushed by some of its leaders. This is hard for me as well because I’m living in their home. In the end, I try to remind myself that my soul is accountable to Christ not to them. They also have a hard time with American Conference of Catholic Bishops stance on the death penalty and illegal immigration. I myself believe that the death penalty should be used in particularly heinours offenses. I also believe that when Christ said render unto Ceasar unto Caesar he essentially meant obey the secular laws unless they contradict God’s law, which means in my opinion the American government has a right to enforce its borders. This might get me in trouble if I was ever assigned to a parish with a large hispanic laity that expected me to push “comprehensive immigration reform.” Finally, I am still in that process of discerning between a genuine interest in church history and theology from that of a committment to Christ that includes giving up a wife, sex, children, and money. I’ll be honest- the very existence of married priests in the eastern rites in addition to the ordinations of formerly protestant ministers makes this difficultfor me to comprehend.

 

[Shin]

Thank you for the responses. I’m still thinking and praying about this so I’m not sure yet. Lately my parents have been really concerned about me going to this traditional n.o. parish as they unfortunately have been brought up in that baby-boomer liberal catholic education era. On the first Saturday’s of the month when I admit I go to confession I can tell it really upsets them and makes them uncomftorable; it seems they have a hard time distinguishing the sacraments Christ founded from the scandulous errors and scandals pushed by some of its leaders. This is hard for me as well because I’m living in their home. In the end, I try to remind myself that my soul is accountable to Christ not to them. They also have a hard time with American Conference of Catholic Bishops stance on the death penalty and illegal immigration. I myself believe that the death penalty should be used in particularly heinours offenses. I also believe that when Christ said render unto Ceasar unto Caesar he essentially meant obey the secular laws unless they contradict God’s law, which means in my opinion the American government has a right to enforce its borders. This might get me in trouble if I was ever assigned to a parish with a large hispanic laity that expected me to push “comprehensive immigration reform.” Finally, I am still in that process of discerning between a genuine interest in church history and theology from that of a committment to Christ that includes giving up a wife, sex, children, and money. I’ll be honest- the very existence of married priests in the eastern rites in addition to the ordinations of formerly protestant ministers makes this difficultfor me to comprehend.

Well, I agree with you on immigration and the death penalty… and so do some bishops and priests… And look what happened to the English “Bishops’ Conference” so to speak when King Henry VIII came along… some things get spoiled to varying degrees. . .

Money’s overrated. Big time. Pleasures of the world, vs. spiritual joys, no comparison. Just takes time and some initial pain to leap the gap. Priests who aren’t religious don’t take vows of poverty however.

No marriage in Heaven, so, have to give it up sooner or later. It’s over – forever, and ever. Mankind is complete. Romance is overrated, mostly wishful thinking/giving into concupiscence outside of wedlock that is spoiled sooner or later by harsh reality. Supposed to guard the heart before marriage in any case.

And the standards for purity before and in marriage are higher than most people think (see Tobias).

There’s a small short book on celibacy I think you should read, I really recommend it if you can all get it by Cardinal Alfons Stickler, “The Case for Clerical Celibacy: Its Historical Development” It’s short, but not too short, easy to read, and gives a real idea of some of the substance behind it.

Even in the East, they can’t get married after orders, can’t be bishops, and can’t have marital relations the same day they say mass. In other words – they’re married but they’re giving up marital rights when they exercise the fundamental purpose for the priesthood, and this has been the tradition from the start, apostolic. The conflict is right there if it’s the marital relations you’re missing – and the primary purpose for marital relations is… the procreation of children… whom when you’re on call 24/7 at your parish… may miss you. Last sacraments for the dying… sick child… it’s one or the other. You cannot have it all.

“What do the churches of Egypt and the Orient do? They choose clerics who are virgins or continent; and if they have a wife, they cease to be husbands.”

St. Jerome

 

[Sirach2]

Praise be to God for speaking to your heart, and may the call become ever more certain as you pray and discern His will for your life. Welcome to Catholic Answers, too, by the way.

Can I suggest that you contact a moderator to move this to the vocations section? There are many who follow these types of posts in that forum and they may be able to offer you some really helpful points to guide you in your focus. But, if you prefer a particularly traditional leaning, maybe it’s best to just leave it here. Perhaps you could begin a thread there with specific questions that arise for you that are not related to tradtion, but to the actual training and discipline, etc.

 

[archangel04]

Well you should really pray to God and see where He wants you. In my opinion (take it with a grain of salt) would recommend FSSP if you really just wan’t to celebrate the EF, but I feel it’s better if you went to seminary and get your education and learn Latin as well. This way you can learn how to celebrate the EF and introduce it to what ever parish you are in, thanks you the Holy Father. What ever you do, do it for God’s Will not yours or anyone else.

 

[floresco]

Another possibility for being a traditional priest is to join an Oratory of St. Phillip Neri. The one in Toronto runs a seminary and bishops who are concerned with orthodoxy from many dioceses sent young men there for training. The Oratorians say reverent Masses of the ordinary form (altar rail, ad orientem, no female servers, etc.) as well as the extraordinary form. Take a look at their web site: oratory-toronto.org/