Traditional Gothic Chasubles

[RadTrad1]

Hi!

I had a quick question regarding traditional vestments. My priest at school is extremely traditional and uses only fiddleback chasubles, but when learning about the Latin Mass he talked about traditional Gothic chasubles. I had always understood them to be kind of bland, like this.

My question is, what were Gothic chasubles like before Vatican II? I’ve always tried to find them but get mixed up if they’re current or not. I guess I’m just really used to picturing extremely fancy vestments with the Latin Mass.

Thanks!!

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

In a cathedral? I’m sure they were fancy

In a rural provincial parish? They probably had little to no decoration.

Today we have a few companies and monistaries that make garments. It’s pretty streamline. But pre-industrial revolution it would of been up to locals to provide for the priest. Big cathedrials, monistaries and churches connected to nuneries would of had accesses to finer things. The average church would not.

 

[Maximilian75]

This is the purple version of my parish’s set … We even have burses and veils for them that we use, and a few of them even have the maniples, but since we’re an OF parish, we dont use them.

 

[CTBcin]

Gothic vs Roman only has to do with the cut of the vestment, not its decoration. I would consider myself “traditional” but I actually prefer Gothic to Roman. Gothic chasubles are the most common, so it’s easier to find simple, cheap ones. Roman vestments are more of a specialty item.

Many higher-end Gothic chasubles are highly ornamented and beautifully made.

 

[midori]

Another vote for the vestments reflecting the skill and finances of the ladies of the parish.

Back in the day, vestments weren’t really ordered out of the catalog. It was up to the ladies of the parish to provide the altar linens, vestments, and so on. I don’t know how they went about getting their fabric if they weren’t in a metropolitan area, or if people who didn’t have physical/financial access to liturgical brocades relied heavily upon embroidery to spiff things up. Here’s a table of contents from someone who sews a variety of styles-- you might hunt down the full book if it’s interesting.

I have an Orthodox friend who sews. Not only does her parish still sew vestments for their clergy, but I believe they also make their own candles and bake the bread used in the Eucharist.

 

[OldCAFMember]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[FrDavid96]

My question is, what were Gothic chasubles like before Vatican II? I’ve always tried to find them but get mixed up if they’re current or not. I guess I’m just really used to picturing extremely fancy vestments with the Latin Mass.

Thanks!!

All kinds of different styles. The one you pictured is overall or basically the Gothic cut.

Beyond that, there were all kinds of variations.

Some were shorter and more narrow than the one in the picture.

Some were even longer (some photos or paintings depict the sleeve-end rolled at the wrist).

It will also vary greatly by geography (including climate) and the expense.

Finally, “Pre Vatican II” is just too broad a criteria. That could mean 4th century or 1959. You need to narrow it a little more.

 

[FrDavid96]

This is the purple version of my parish’s set … We even have burses and veils for them that we use, and a few of them even have the maniples, but since we’re an OF parish, we dont use them.

I’m familiar with those. I have a few sets from the same source.

The prices are very good. They are actually some of the least expensive vestments available today.

I know of plenty of plain polyester chasubles with no decoration at all that cost more than those.

 

[Maximilian75]

I really like them. Our priest is gradually phasing them out for a similar set he’s getting in Rome 1 color at a time, but we still use them with relative frequency

 

[midori]

I’ve been eyeing the Catholic Liturgicals site for a long time. I think our parish last went vestment-shopping in the early 80’s…

You mention your priest is replacing them with something different-but-similar. Out of curiosity, is there a particular problem/shortcoming to be aware of with them, or is your parish affluent enough to be able to change its mind and go in another direction in a relatively short period of time?

 

[Maximilian75]

Ugh…

No, they’re great! Our pastor’s one mild issue has been the lining, which according to him is a little unnecessary and can make them hotter than the new ones he is buying, which are unlined. But overall, they are a great set of vestments.
I believe some parishioners are buying him this new set from Rome.

 

[FrDavid96]

I’ve been eyeing the Catholic Liturgicals site for a long time. I think our parish last went vestment-shopping in the early 80’s…

You mention your priest is replacing them with something different-but-similar. Out of curiosity, is there a particular problem/shortcoming to be aware of with them, or is your parish affluent enough to be able to change its mind and go in another direction in a relatively short period of time?

The set pictured sells for about $60 for just the chasuble (unlined) and stole.

That’s really not a huge parish expense, even for a small parish.

 

[Maximilian75]

@midori

If you do end up purchasing, don’t bother with getting the lining. As I said in my reply, that’s the one complaint my priest has with this set.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Back in the day, vestments weren’t really ordered out of the catalog. It was up to the ladies of the parish to provide the altar linens, vestments, and so on. I don’t know how they went about getting their fabric if they weren’t in a metropolitan area, or if people who didn’t have physical/financial access to liturgical brocades relied heavily upon embroidery to spiff things up.

Not where I am from or in my lived lifetime. Ladies of the parish would supply altar linens, yes. The purificators, corporals, the cloths for the lavabo, the needs of the baptistery. But they were not providing chasubles, dalmatics, tunicles, copes, albs and such. For those, we relied on ecclesiastical tailors and upon communities of women Religious who did this to support the community. Even today, various vestments that are mine personally came from women Religious who made them years ago. There were some areas that were in between…I was in parishes where some of the ladies would make veils for the tabernacle and others where that was not feasible

I’ve been eyeing the Catholic Liturgicals site for a long time. I think our parish last went vestment-shopping in the early 80’s…

The one thing I always caution is to only purchase vestments in consultation with the priest who will wear them. There is no point in buying and presenting a vestment that either ends up permanently at the back of the closet or in a storage box.

 

[FrDavid96]

I’ve been eyeing the Catholic Liturgicals site for a long time. I think our parish last went vestment-shopping in the early 80’s…

You mention your priest is replacing them with something different-but-similar. Out of curiosity, is there a particular problem/shortcoming to be aware of with them, or is your parish affluent enough to be able to change its mind and go in another direction in a relatively short period of time?

I’ve had great experience buying from Cath. Lit. over the years. I only had 1 problem and that was a simple mistake any company could have made --an order was marked as “shipped” in the computer but never actually left the building. I emailed and they fixed it.

They will also do any reasonable customization. So if you don’t see it on their website, just ask. They can’t have a photo of every possible color combination, but they will do whatever colors you want for no extra charge, as long as they have the material. I’ve done many times and they were always happy to accommodate.

Take note that their chasubles come in different sizes. By default, they’ll ship “medium” but if you want bigger or smaller, just say so. I happen to like my chasubles very small so that’s another thing I like about them. I also prefer no lining.

For the Gothic chasubles (and dalmatics) the lining is always optional. For the Roman style, the lining is (almost) unavoidable.

What I really like about Cath. Lit. is that a parish can have all matching vestments without spending a lot of money, even copes that match the chasubles and dalmatics perfectly.

As Don R. just posted, make sure you check with the priest first before ordering anything. He might have some preference that would not occur to anyone else.

Over the years, I’ve been given too many liturgical items that have never been used for one reason or another.