Traditional Latin Mass, in English?

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AndrewOfCymru

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I’m new to Catholicism and even newer to the TLM. I attended my second one yesterday. I really enjoyed it. We were using the Edmund Campion Hymnal/Missal and it occurred to me that there might be English masses using the older English version that accompanied the Latin.

Is there such a thing as a Traditional Mass in English?

Thanks!
 
I believe that there is a TLM (or something similar to it) in English. I’m not one hundred percent sure, but I think that the Order of Mass used by the Anglican Ordinariate is very similar to the TLM, but in English.
 
AndrewOfCymru said:
I’m new to Catholicism and even newer to the TLM. I attended my second one yesterday. I really enjoyed it. We were using the Edmund Campion Hymnal/Missal and it occurred to me that there might be English masses using the older English version that accompanied the Latin.

Is there such a thing as a Traditional Mass in English?

Thanks!
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No! The TLM is usually in the language of the latin church i.e latin, the readings and homily may be in the vernacular.
 
AndrewOfCymru said:
I’m new to Catholicism and even newer to the TLM. I attended my second one yesterday. I really enjoyed it. We were using the Edmund Campion Hymnal/Missal and it occurred to me that there might be English masses using the older English version that accompanied the Latin.

Is there such a thing as a Traditional Mass in English?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I’m no expert, but just to chime in as someone who has attended both the Tridentine Mass (“TLM,” “Extraordinary Form”) and the Anglican Use/Ordinariate Mass…

The Tridentine Mass is never celebrated in English as far as I know. Because its use was extended for those Catholics who missed the traditional form of liturgy, including the Western Church’s official language (Latin), it is exclusively celebrated in Latin. (On the other hand, there are instances of the Ordinary Form being celebrated in Latin as well!)

The Anglican Use/Ordinariate Mass recently received Divine Worship: The Missal to replace The Book of Divine Worship. Both are very similar to the Tridentine Mass, although naturally with elements from the Anglican Book of Common Prayer (BCP). Divine Worship: The Missal, however, is particularly close to the Tridentine Mass, complete with prayers of preparation (“Judica me, Deus,” etc.). Both are in Elizabethan English, as befitting its derivation from the BCP.

So, to answer your question, no, there is currently no Tridentine Mass in the vernacular (though, if I’m not mistaken, there have been such cases in the history of the Church), but your closest option is the Divine Worship Mass (whose use will, I hope, be promulgated). The only problem is that it’s difficult finding Ordinariate parishes; I’m lucky enough that there’s one near where I’m going to school!

Hope that helps!

Karl
 
Churches of the Old Roman Catholic lines (not to be confused with the Old Catholic Churches) celebrate the Tridentine Mass in English or a combination of Latin and English. Of course, while they share almost all of Catholic beliefs, have valid sacraments and generally respect the Pope (they even commemorate him in their liturgies), they are not in communion with the Church and their Masses should probably be avoided by a new Catholic. Just wanted to throw out that what you’re asking about does exist in some form.
 
Fuerza said:
Churches of the Old Roman Catholic lines (not to be confused with the Old Catholic Churches) celebrate the Tridentine Mass in English or a combination of Latin and English. Of course, while they share almost all of Catholic beliefs, have valid sacraments and generally respect the Pope (they even commemorate him in their liturgies), they are not in communion with the Church and their Masses should probably be avoided by a new Catholic. Just wanted to throw out that what you’re asking about does exist in some form.
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Very interesting. I’ve heard of the Old Catholic Church, but not this.
 
Fuerza said:
I love the 1965 Missal. It should be noted though that it did carry some mandatory Latin ( the Canon and some of the private priestly prayers).
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And the collect, prayer over the gifts and postcommunion collect.
 
The only thing authorised for use today is the Ordinariate Use. If you were to take an English-Latin People’s Missal from the Tridentine, the Eucharistic Prayer is basically the English version from that. But there are several prayers from the Book of Common Prayer added in the Opening Rights, prior to the offertory, before and after Communion.
 
Are you referring to the Mass Form where the Priest mainly faces the altar and has his back to the people. I had actually only been to one of these masses last year during a conference. Quite unique.
 
Actually, there is such a Mass translation, but you won’t find it in Catholic circles. There is the English Missal, well known in the Anglo-Catholic world, which is basically the extraordinary form in English. I think a good bit of the English Missal formed the basis for the liturgy which the Anglican ordinariate uses today.
 
catholicbball17 said:
Are you referring to the Mass Form where the Priest mainly faces the altar and has his back to the people. I had actually only been to one of these masses last year during a conference. Quite unique.
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Yes, this is what we are talking about. This is called the “Extraordinary Form.”

However, a priest can face his back to the people at any mass. This is what’s known as ad orientum. In fact, its supposed to be the default way to say mass, but most priests say mass facing the people.
 
ctb95 said:
Yes, this is what we are talking about. This is called the “Extraordinary Form.”

However, a priest can face his back to the people at any mass. This is what’s known as ad orientum. In fact, its supposed to be the default way to say mass, but most priests say mass facing the people.
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Please understand that “face his back to the people” is truly an INCORRECT way of interpreting it the stance of the presider. “Ad orientem” correctly translated means “to the east” as opposed to “versus populum” meaning “facing the people.”

In the “ad orientem” stance the presider faces to the “east” so that he not only faces the rising sun (in reference to the rising Son [of God] at Easter), but also acts as our leader (head of the community on a journey) in praising and praying to God on behalf of the people. If the church building is not built so that when standing at the altar, one is facing east, it is called facing “Liturgical East” or at the head of the congregation, leading them in prayer. Praying the Mass using the ad orientem stance, and having the correct understanding of that stance, is helpful in making God, and not the presider, the focus of the Mass. (as He SHOULD be.)

Interestingly, it was permitted prior to the current Ordinary Form for the presider to take a “versus populum” stance for the liturgy in some circumstances. It is just that the use of this positioning was not as widely used as it is now. Even currently, The GIRM and Roman Missal for the Ordinary Form of the Mass are written assuming an “ad orientem” stance for the priest, if read closely.
 
And for extra fun . . . 🙂

There are churches in Rome itself where the priest has always faced the congregation.

These come from older buildings turned into churches in which the only possible place to put the altar was the west end. As a result, facing east while at the altar, the priest was facing the congregation. At three (?) points in the Mass, the congregation would turn to face east . .

AMDG

hawk
 
Big_Feet said:
Please understand that “face his back to the people” is truly an INCORRECT way of interpreting it the stance of the presider. “Ad orientem” correctly translated means “to the east” as opposed to “versus populum” meaning “facing the people.”

In the “ad orientem” stance the presider faces to the “east” so that he not only faces the rising sun (in reference to the rising Son [of God] at Easter), but also acts as our leader (head of the community on a journey) in praising and praying to God on behalf of the people. If the church building is not built so that when standing at the altar, one is facing east, it is called facing “Liturgical East” or at the head of the congregation, leading them in prayer. Praying the Mass using the ad orientem stance, and having the correct understanding of that stance, is helpful in making God, and not the presider, the focus of the Mass. (as He SHOULD be.)

Interestingly, it was permitted prior to the current Ordinary Form for the presider to take a “versus populum” stance for the liturgy in some circumstances. It is just that the use of this positioning was not as widely used as it is now. Even currently, The GIRM and Roman Missal for the Ordinary Form of the Mass are written assuming an “ad orientem” stance for the priest, if read closely.
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The Roman Missal does not use the term presider, which is a generic, nonspecific term. The liturgical books use priest or celebrant, which are much more accurate terms for the one Who offers the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
 
AndrewOfCymru said:
I’m new to Catholicism and even newer to the TLM. I attended my second one yesterday. I really enjoyed it. We were using the Edmund Campion Hymnal/Missal and it occurred to me that there might be English masses using the older English version that accompanied the Latin.

Is there such a thing as a Traditional Mass in English?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Permission to say the Traditional Mass

a) must use the liturgical books of 1962

b) must be in Latin
 
AndrewOfCymru said:
I’m new to Catholicism and even newer to the TLM. I attended my second one yesterday. I really enjoyed it. We were using the Edmund Campion Hymnal/Missal and it occurred to me that there might be English masses using the older English version that accompanied the Latin.

Is there such a thing as a Traditional Mass in English?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I encountered it once, in Britain, many many years ago, and it was in visiting an Anglican parish. It was the vetus ordo but all done in English, none in Latin, by the Anglican priest. I was not long ordained and a young Roman professor of liturgy and sacraments and quite struck by it.
 
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