Traditional Latin Mass- In with the old, out with the new!

[callmeChris]

I found a very impressive video on the Traditional Latin mass. I wish to share it with you guys.
Now to prevent any argument for those who attend the NO mass, I wish to clear some things up. This person who goes by the name ‘checkthisout732’ who made the video also attends the Novus Ordo mass.
In the description of the video it says: "Another upload of mine explaining why our modern masses need to stop and why the significance of the traditional latin mass is more important than we thought. By ‘our modern masses need to stop’ he just meant the way some parishes do the New Mass (with drums guitars, inappropriate attire, etc). So please do not get offended with the title of the video or the description; The uploaded also attends the NO mass, and has nothing against it.

So without further interruption… here is the link to the video–>>youtube.com/watch?v=DbLmB2uqkhk

 

[shondrea]

I never saw anything special about the Latin Mass. Still don’t. Wouldn’t ever in my life chose to go to one. I’m blind, can’t see the alter. I rely 100% on my hearing to know what’s going on. I’d like to actually, you know, NOT be sitting in a dark room with people doing things in a language I can’t understand.

 

[Timothysis]

Why is it that one has to always be better than another?

There are two forms of the Roman Rite; attend the one for which you have a preference and let your fellow Catholics do the same. Not everyone shares the “Mass of the Ages” mindset of the latin mass.

 

[dmorgan]

Why is it that one has to always be better than another?

There are two forms of the Roman Rite; attend the one for which you have a preference and let your fellow Catholics do the same. Not everyone shares the “Mass of the Ages” mindset of the latin mass.

I would gladly attend the EF if one were availible! In my diocese (SC) we have four Parishes that offer the EF, and only one that offers the EF every Sunday. That Parish is 75 miles one way. Where is Sumorum Pontificum???
You can keep your “mindset”, just let me and other like minded Traditional Catholics have our Tradition! If you do not care for the Tridentine Mass, and you “feel” the OF is equal to the Tridentine Mass, and you “feel” the OF is just as Spiritual as the Tridentine Mass (which was suppressed in violation of Tradition) why do you spend so much time on the Traditonal Forum defending the OF and taking cheap shots at Traditional Catholics? Just what are you and your supporters **afraid **of?

 

[MikeDunphy]

I never saw anything special about the Latin Mass. Still don’t. Wouldn’t ever in my life chose to go to one. I’m blind, can’t see the alter. I rely 100% on my hearing to know what’s going on. I’d like to actually, you know, NOT be sitting in a dark room with people doing things in a language I can’t understand.

Well Shondrea, you’re never going to be forced to worship God at a Traditional Latin Mass, but it is not good to be scornful of what was the central act of worship for Roman Catholics for most of the Church’s history.

You should know that what is special about the Mass, whether in Latin or in English, is that your savior is present and offers Himself to you, if you are properly disposed to accept Him. His presence can neither be seen nor heard, nor can the grace that flows from Him to His worshippers, nor the love that returns from His people to Him, nor the presence of the holy angels and saints who join us in adoring the Most Holy Trinity, nor the bond that unites every Mass in every nation in which it has been offered in every century since Calvary in a single sacrifice to our Father in heaven.

What is highest and holiest in Mass is hidden. I’m sure recasting the Mass in the vernacular was supposed to make the Mass more accessible, but many Catholics seem to have lost an awareness that there is more going on than can be seen at the surface. I hope you know better than that.

The start of the video has quotes from various popes in praise of the use of Latin at Mass, which ought to make us pause before we start criticizing the practice. Even if no pope had ever said a word on the subject, I would still be glad to have the opportunity to worship at the same sort of Mass as the ones that spiritually formed Saint Francis de Sales, Saint Francis of Assisi, Saint Therese of Liseux, and the other great saints. I hope that someday you, also will be able to rejoice in God’s presence at the Mass of Ages (sorry, Tim), but if that way is closed to you, the Church offers other forms of worship. I hope you follow a path that brings you to heaven.

 

[Timothysis]

If you do not care for the Tridentine Mass, and you “feel” the OF is equal to the Tridentine Mass, and you “feel” the OF is just as Spiritual as the Tridentine Mass (which was suppressed in violation of Tradition) why do you spend so much time on the Traditonal Forum defending the OF and taking cheap shots at Traditional Catholics?

Just because some of us do not paint ourselves with the same “traditionalists” brush as yourself does not mean that we are not Traditional Catholics. There is only one, holy, catholic apostolic Church, not the “traditional” and “progressive” Catholic Church. I have just as much “right” to be in this forum as you or anyone else.

Just what are you and your supporters **afraid **of?

Mindless ignorance, for one…

 

[Jacob21]

Awesome video. I wish the TLM was more readily available in my area.

 

[ProVobis]

I never saw anything special about the Latin Mass. Still don’t. Wouldn’t ever in my life chose to go to one. I’m blind, can’t see the alter. I rely 100% on my hearing to know what’s going on. I’d like to actually, you know, NOT be sitting in a dark room with people doing things in a language I can’t understand.

I think that more than hearing what they can “understand” they are frustrated at not hearing anything at all and not being encouraged to respond. That is probably why people speaking English only would not have any problems at a Polish Mass or an Italian Mass but would have a problem with an EF, especially because they’re not familiar with it. Not saying it’s wrong but just saying.

 

[damooster]

I sympathize with the OP and the creator of that video. I really do. I’m tired of going to Mass and hearing a rock group sing every 5 minutes. I’m tired of the immodestly dressed people, and I’m tired of the non-reverent behavior too.

Yesterday I went to the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in DC to pray for my best friend and her family as they deal with a horrible tragedy (her daughter took her own life Friday). I planned to spend hours of prayer in the side chapel where Adoration is often held, but I had to leave because of all the immodestly dressed people. I am normally able to ignore it, but there was just too much of it.

However, the problem is not with the OF Mass. Personally, I much prefer the EF Mass and attend it often, but those of us who have a preference must still recognize and acknowledge that the OF Mass is completely valid. Pope Benedict XVI has stated this.

The problem lies with enforcement. To put it bluntly, the laity are getting away with what they want. They’ve come up with different beliefs regarding what their role is within the post-conciliar Church, and they’ve run with it. They have truly taken an inch and turned it in to a mile. No one says anything to them about immodest dress, and if they do, they don’t enforce it. They don’t say anything about the music or the hand holding either, and if they do, they fail to enforce it. I’ve heard many sermons touch on the topic of immodest dress, but I’ve never seen anyone do anything about it.

Imagine the OF Mass, but the way it was meant to be celebrated. I’m currently reading the Vatican II documents and that Council made it quite clear that tradition be maintained. Latin is supposed to be maintained in the Latin rite. Gregorian chant is named first in Musicam Sacram. Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are just that (extraordinary).

So, picture the OF Mass, in Latin with Gregorian Chant and the Priest distributing Holy Communion. Imagine ushers standing at the doors, denying entrance to anyone that is immodestly dressed. It may not meet our EF standards, but we are not to determine what is best and what God would want us to do. We are to be sheep; obedient and loyal.

 

[mick321]

I would gladly attend the EF if one were availible! In my diocese (SC) we have four Parishes that offer the EF, and only one that offers the EF every Sunday. That Parish is 75 miles one way. Where is Sumorum Pontificum???
You can keep your “mindset”, just let me and other like minded Traditional Catholics have our Tradition! If you do not care for the Tridentine Mass, and you “feel” the OF is equal to the Tridentine Mass, and you “feel” the OF is just as Spiritual as the Tridentine Mass (which was suppressed in violation of Tradition) why do you spend so much time on the Traditonal Forum defending the OF and taking cheap shots at Traditional Catholics? Just what are you and your supporters **afraid **of?

If the EF is offered anywhere in you diocese, you ought to support it, particularly if you ever want to see its use expanded. Seventy-five miles? Do you have a car? Alarm clock? Shirt & tie? Work it out!

If you can rally other like-minded Catholics in your area to commit to attending the TLM, you should look into establishing it at a local parish.

Cheap shot? Send me a stamped, self addressed envelope and I’ll send you a dollar. Just don’t cry.

 

[At_Trent]

Not everyone shares the “Mass of the Ages” mindset of the latin mass.

There was a time all Roman Catholics where of the same mindset Tim. Or were at least expected to. It all ended the day JXXIII drew his last breath. GRHS

Two Liturgies of different theologies is tearing the Church to pieces.

 

[Timothysis]

There was a time all Roman Catholics where of the same mindset Tim.

No, there really wasn’t. There has never been a “Golden Age” of the Church. Read a history of the popes; there wasn’t one either in ancient times or modern times who didn’t have something that they had to deal with.

Two Liturgies of different theologies is tearing the Church to pieces.

If you are suggesting that the Church of today is not the same as the Church of yesteryear, then I would say that you are the one “tearing it to pieces.”

 

[At_Trent]

No, there really wasn’t. There has never been a “Golden Age” of the Church. Read a history of the popes; there wasn’t one either in ancient times or modern times who didn’t have something that they had to deal with.

If you are suggesting that the Church of today is not the same as the Church of yesteryear, then I would say that you are the one “tearing it to pieces.”

It’s not a remote resemblance.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Why is it that one has to always be better than another?

There are two forms of the Roman Rite; attend the one for which you have a preference and let your fellow Catholics do the same. Not everyone shares the “Mass of the Ages” mindset of the latin mass.

I would gladly attend the EF if one were availible! In my diocese (SC) we have four Parishes that offer the EF, and only one that offers the EF every Sunday. That Parish is 75 miles one way. Where is Sumorum Pontificum???
You can keep your “mindset”, just let me and other like minded Traditional Catholics have our Tradition! If you do not care for the Tridentine Mass, and you “feel” the OF is equal to the Tridentine Mass, and you “feel” the OF is just as Spiritual as the Tridentine Mass (which was suppressed in violation of Tradition) why do you spend so much time on the Traditonal Forum defending the OF and taking cheap shots at Traditional Catholics? Just what are you and your supporters **afraid **of?

Nice way to this one around on the poster.

He never questioned whether or not you could keep your mindset he just asked that he be allowed to keep his.

He also asked why we can not have both and be happy for that.

 

[Alex_Luciano]

The more I read and ponder on this subject the more I understand the zeal with which so many defend the Traditional Roman Rite. The Mass of the ages inspired some of the greatest works of art, music and architecture. Its phrases even affected our language ( that is even more evident in the romance languages) and culture. The Mass as a sacrifice had a way of showing us submission to Christ as king and even humility since it was a mysterious celebration. Now that we opened the windows of the church and the mass is understood by all, it seems that there is less devotion and care for the sacred. I understand that in general religion has declined since the 60’s and that V2 is not the main culprit but I can see how the radical changes in the mass (whether they are sanctioned by Sacrosantum Concilium or not is another argument) did not help bring a renewal to the church. I only wish that the EF were widely available in my diocese (Orlando Fl) but unfortunately I cannot even think of many parishes that would be apt for its celebration since the majority of our churches are from the 70’s and 80’s and are everything but traditional. I attend the OF and respect it, I am lucky to have two great parish priests that take great care of the liturgy but in the end the EF has something that the OF just doesn’t. It has a 'catholicity" and agelessness that speaks powerfully about our religion. I just ask all of us to ponder for a moment, which liturgy points higher towards heaven? The one who produced Chartres or the one that inspired LA’s Cathedral? Can we find music today more apt for sacred worship than that of Palestrina or the early plainsong and Gregorian Chant? If classic Arabic is no impediment to the world’s second largest religion, Islam, which has propagated well beyond its Arab origins and is faithfully observed by millions who do not know a lick of Arabic (modern or classic) then why is Latin such an impediment for Catholics? I pray that the Holy Spirit guide our Church into an age of true renewal. We must rediscover our roots and reclaim our identity. We look too much like the World.

 

[VetA]

The more I read and ponder on this subject the more I understand the zeal with which so many defend the Traditional Roman Rite. The Mass of the ages inspired some of the greatest works of art, music and architecture. Its phrases even affected our language ( that is even more evident in the romance languages) and culture. The Mass as a sacrifice had a way of showing us submission to Christ as king and even humility since it was a mysterious celebration. Now that we opened the windows of the church and the mass is understood by all, it seems that there is less devotion and care for the sacred. I understand that in general religion has declined since the 60’s and that V2 is not the main culprit but I can see how the radical changes in the mass (whether they are sanctioned by Sacrosantum Concilium or not is another argument) did not help bring a renewal to the church. I only wish that the EF were widely available in my diocese (Orlando Fl) but unfortunately I cannot even think of many parishes that would be apt for its celebration since the majority of our churches are from the 70’s and 80’s and are everything but traditional. I attend the OF and respect it, I am lucky to have two great parish priests that take great care of the liturgy but in the end the EF has something that the OF just doesn’t. It has a 'catholicity" and agelessness that speaks powerfully about our religion. I just ask all of us to ponder for a moment, which liturgy points higher towards heaven? The one who produced Chartres or the one that inspired LA’s Cathedral? Can we find music today more apt for sacred worship than that of Palestrina or the early plainsong and Gregorian Chant? If classic Arabic is no impediment to the world’s second largest religion, Islam, which has propagated well beyond its Arab origins and is faithfully observed by millions who do not know a lick of Arabic (modern or classic) then why is Latin such an impediment for Catholics? I pray that the Holy Spirit guide our Church into an age of true renewal. We must rediscover our roots and reclaim our identity. We look too much like the World.

THANK YOU!

 

[GIR]

I never saw anything special about the Latin Mass. Still don’t. Wouldn’t ever in my life chose to go to one. I’m blind, can’t see the alter. I rely 100% on my hearing to know what’s going on. I’d like to actually, you know, NOT be sitting in a dark room with people doing things in a language I can’t understand.

I am also blind and very much love the traditional mass. I’ve only been to one, since I can’t drive myself. Surely you can appreciate sacred music? and what about incense? I love incense. The sense of smell has a strong impact on memory.

As for the language barrier, I simply learned Latin. I also will be attending a Maronite church and would love pick up enough Aramaic to understand the prayers. I think Hadley or Perkins might have a Latin course.

 

[JustaServant]

We Catholics believe that the body of Christ during Holy Communion is the body of Christ, just as the Word tells us in John. Not a representation or symbol of His body but the body itself. If anyone reading this has been to a traditional mass you will notice after an extremely devotional consecration process, the host goes directly from the Priest’s hand, with a blessing, into the worshipper’s mouth. Worshippers kneel before the altar - of which the railing is covered with a cloth just on the outside chance that a crumb would and the Father places the Holy Host directly into the mouth of the parishioner.
It is about respect for the Eucharist.

 

[Timothysis]

We Catholics believe that the body of Christ during Holy Communion is the body of Christ, just as the Word tells us in John. Not a representation or symbol of His body but the body itself. If anyone reading this has been to a traditional mass you will notice after an extremely devotional consecration process, the host goes directly from the Priest’s hand, with a blessing, into the worshipper’s mouth. Worshippers kneel before the altar - of which the railing is covered with a cloth just on the outside chance that a crumb would and the Father places the Holy Host directly into the mouth of the parishioner.
It is about respect for the Eucharist.

Interestingly enough, the same occurs at the OF that I attend. So how does this support the notion that one form of the liturgy is better than the other?

 

[Ockham]

One is certainly more reverent than the other. One is also more universal than the other. One is more connected to apostolic tradition than the other. One is less prone to abuse than the other. One was better attended when it was the OF than the other is now.