Traditional Latin Mass said too fast?

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I recently was asked to serve at a TLM and did. I enjoyed it’s beauty and traditions, but one thing that bothered me was that the priest and the servers who had parts to say said them so fast that I don’t think I’d ever be able to say it that fast nor does it seem prayerful.

Am I missing something, shouldn’t it be said in a more prayerful, slower pace? I say a few basic prayers in Latin and recognize some of it in the TLM Liturgy, but the speed is turning me away from the Liturgy.
 
Learning1 said:
I recently was asked to serve at a TLM and did. I enjoyed it’s beauty and traditions, but one thing that bothered me was that the priest and the servers who had parts to say said them so fast that I don’t think I’d ever be able to say it that fast nor does it seem prayerful.

Am I missing something, shouldn’t it be said in a more prayerful, slower pace? I say a few basic prayers in Latin and recognize some of it in the TLM Liturgy, but the speed is turning me away from the Liturgy.
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That’s not good. Was this a weekday Mass? Music?
 
When a person is learning another language, it almost always seems as if the speakers are talking too fast.

Sixty years ago, when the Latin Mass was “the Mass,” on All souls Day, the priests offered three masses, and they were done in an hour.

That fast?
 
Some may not believe me, but when I was a child growing up with the Latin Mass, this was very common. A low Mass could be said in 20 min. or sometimes less. I’m not disparaging the Mass, just telling it like it was then. At my in-law’s parish, they always went to a certain Mass on Sunday because the priest was so fast, and that Mass was very popular. When the Mass was changed, the one thing I found it hard to get used to was that the Mass was nearly an hour now. At the time, I did not like that . 😊

The priest may be one of the old school ones, used to saying the Mass quickly, or your ear may get used to it after a while.
 
It depends. I was an altar server when the Tridentine Mass was the OF Mass. There were three daily Masses, at 6:30 a.m., 7:15 a.m., and 8:00 a.m. These were Low Masses. The 6:30 a.m. Mass was pretty quick, and each of the two following Masses were in turn slower. The 11:00 a.m. Sunday High Mass was much more elaborate and slower than the daily Masses.

I would say not to come to any conclusions from attending a single or a few Tridentine Masses. When I was a server, it was in a large city and the Tridentine Mass was of course the form of the Mass in every parrish. This is no longer the case. What you have experienced could be something occurring within a single parrish that does offer the Tridentine Mass.
 
Keep in mind that the traditional liturgy emphasizes the role of the priest as sacrificer and mediator in persona Christi, thus he says most of the prayers alone, quietly, “facing the Lord.” The servers say the responses on behalf of the congregation (unless it is a dialog Mass). Don’t feel you have to follow every single prayer word-for-word. You can participate fully in the sacrifice by joining your intentions to those of the priest. You may even find that you grow in certain ways by doing this. By all means use a hand missal, but don’t freak out if you fall behind. Spend more time on a particular prayer if you want to, if it helps you better to enter in spiritually.
 
Ad_Orientem said:
Keep in mind that the traditional liturgy emphasizes the role of the priest as sacrificer and mediator in persona Christi, thus he says most of the prayers alone, quietly, “facing the Lord.” The servers say the responses on behalf of the congregation (unless it is a dialog Mass). Don’t feel you have to follow every single prayer word-for-word. You can participate fully in the sacrifice by joining your intentions to those of the priest. You may even find that you grow in certain ways by doing this. By all means use a hand missal, but don’t freak out if you fall behind. Spend more time on a particular prayer if you want to, if it helps you better to enter in spiritually.
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FYI - The OP was an altar server.
 
This was a Missa Contata and I believe it was 1.5 hrs.

The Acolytes say the Confiteor after the priest does and it was being said lightning speed by both parties. Again, I know Latin pronunciation and some Latin prayers and recognize quite a bit of it. I am sure I would pick up speed when I am more familiar with the text.

Granted, when the congregation is praying a prayer together, it is typically pretty slow. I was going to say ‘because there are so many saying it together’, but that doesn’t seem to hold true for the Rosary. I’ve experienced times when I’ve wondered how the people saying the Rosary have a clue of what they are saying.

Where I was going with it originally, was that one or two people praying a prayer will probably tend to go faster than a group, but the speed I am talking about is more than this.

I guess what l am hearing is that this might be common; whether or not it is right. However, because it does not reflect a prayerful Mass, this is what turns me off from the TLM. I see the form and beauty of the Mass, but when I hear the speed at which it is said, it doesn’t align with is experienced visually.
 
Learning1 said:
This was a Missa Contata and I believe it was 1.5 hrs.

The Acolytes say the Confiteor after the priest does and it was being said lightning speed by both parties. Again, I know Latin pronunciation and some Latin prayers and recognize quite a bit of it. I am sure I would pick up speed when I am more familiar with the text.
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To become an altar server during the era when the Tridentine Mass was the OF Mass, we had to first memorize all the Latin responses, pronounce them reasonably and know their proper order. We were eleven and twelve-years old. Not at first, but before long we gained speed and were able to give the responses in keeping with the overall pace of the Mass. We had not yet studied Latin, although we knew from the English translation the essence of what the priest said (we had attended a Tridentine Mass every school day beginning with the first grade, and we had Missals with both Latin and English on opposite pages).

It is a significant amount of material to learn by rote memory, especially since Latin was a foreign language for us. It just took time and practice, but we quickly got better. We began to learn the translation of many Latin words. I would not become overly concerned. What you are experiencing is normal and typical.
 
Learning1 said:
Granted, when the congregation is praying a prayer together, it is typically pretty slow. I was going to say ‘because there are so many saying it together’, but that doesn’t seem to hold true for the Rosary. I’ve experienced times when I’ve wondered how the people saying the Rosary have a clue of what they are saying.
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Back in 1970 I worked for a boss who tried to convince everyone at lunchtime that praying in cadences (or group prayer) was not really praying at all. It sounds like individual prayer multiplied but as you imply, everyone spends more time trying to keep pace than thinking about what he’s praying.
 
Learning1 said:
I recently was asked to serve at a TLM and did. I enjoyed it’s beauty and traditions, but one thing that bothered me was that the priest and the servers who had parts to say said them so fast that I don’t think I’d ever be able to say it that fast nor does it seem prayerful.

Am I missing something, shouldn’t it be said in a more prayerful, slower pace? I say a few basic prayers in Latin and recognize some of it in the TLM Liturgy, but the speed is turning me away from the Liturgy.
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If you think that was fast, you should have heard the priest who taught my father to serve Mass. The priest’s prior posting was as a chaplain in WWII.

It’s amazing just how fast one can say Mass with the impetus of “the longer we kneel near this jeep, the more likely it is that someone will drop a bomb on our heads.” 😉 Evidently, he could say a High Mass in 17 minutes flat. :eek:
 
phil19034 said:
FYI - The OP was an altar server.
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Was he?

How could he be an altar server without knowing the responses? The people I know who are altar servers at our local TLM take “Mass classes” to learn all the responses and other gestures, all of which are an important part of the Mass.

Or is there a non-speaking altar server in the TLM? I’ve only attended Low Masses, so I don’t know–maybe there are altar servers at TLM who have no training?

I thought the OP was just using the phrase “serve at Mass” to mean that he attended the Mass. I’ve heard that phrase here on CAF and in real life–that laypeople “serve at Mass” by being there and participating.

Could the OP please clarify? Thanks.
 
Cat said:
Was he?

How could he be an altar server without knowing the responses?
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Yes, I wondered about this too. During my time as a server, it was not possible to become a server without first learning by rote memory all of the Latin responses. A server also had to know the proper sequence of responses–that is, the correct response to what the priest said in Latin.

A re-reading of the OP’s comment leaves it uncertain that he or she was indeed a server at the Mass. If not, it’s not realistic to expect to keep the pace by attending a single Tridentine Mass. What is necessary is to first memorize the responses and then repeat them for a time during a Mass. Intensive study is at first necessary for most of us. Knowledge of Latin would certainly be a plus.
 
Yes, I was an Acolyte at a Missa Cantata.

We are a small rural parish, with a young priest who has just recently begun saying the Latin Mass. My understanding is that another nearby community that had a retired priest saying it, but he has recently declined in health, so our priest has taken on the Latin Mass.

There was at least one server (of the 6) who has the lines memorized. He serves at the Low Mass. We had 3 practices to learn our movements and actions, and are allowed to have a missal with us (at the altar) for the lines. I tried to say the responses as quickly and timely as I could.
 
Learning1 said:
Yes, I was an Acolyte at a Missa Cantata.

We are a small rural parish, with a young priest who has just recently begun saying the Latin Mass. My understanding is that another nearby community that had a retired priest saying it, but he has recently declined in health, so our priest has taken on the Latin Mass.

There was at least one server (of the 6) who has the lines memorized. He serves at the Low Mass. We had 3 practices to learn our movements and actions, and are allowed to have a missal with us (at the altar) for the lines. I tried to say the responses as quickly and timely as I could.
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Yes, I understand. That is quite different from my experience in an Archdioces in 1956. Our parrish alone had three priests, and the Tridentine Mass was the OF Mass in the many parrishes of a large Midwestern city.

My suggestion would be to memorize the responses. We had the advantage in the sixth grade of having atteneded a Tridentine Mass every school day beginning in the first grade and on Sunday’s as well. Though we had not yet studied Latin, the pronunciation was not so difficult for us. It took time and practice to memorize the responses and gain confidence and speed during the Masses in which we were servers. And we all did it.

I would note that only the servers spoke the Latin responses.
 
My two cents:
I think the problem comes from the fact that most people involved in the EF don’t actually know Latin that well. Yes, you can know the words perfectly, but unless you understand what you’re saying, when you’re saying it, it can just come out as a jumble of sounds.

When we speak a language we know well, we naturally alter our tone to suit what we’re talking about, and this usually doesn’t happen in the EF. That sort of fluency isn’t typically seen in Latin at all.

Granted, it’s not really the fault of anyone involved. Latin is a highly inflected language, and it is very difficult to speak in general, let alone well.
 
L_Marshall said:
My two cents:
I think the problem comes from the fact that most people involved in the EF don’t actually know Latin that well. Yes, you can know the words perfectly, but unless you understand what you’re saying, when you’re saying it, it can just come out as a jumble of sounds.

When we speak a language we know well, we naturally alter our tone to suit what we’re talking about, and this usually doesn’t happen in the EF. That sort of fluency isn’t typically seen in Latin at all.

Granted, it’s not really the fault of anyone involved. Latin is a highly inflected language, and it is very difficult to speak in general, let alone well.
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Thanks for saying this. I agree entirely. I don’t feel guilty at all because I can’t get the hang of Latin in singing, speaking, or reading. I even took it in high school, but quit after a semester and stuck with German instead, which I found easy to remember and make sense of.

I am a Catholic who is sooooo happy that the OF is offered in my heart language. 🙂 I don’t begrudge other Catholics the privilege of Mass in Latin, but I’m just glad that it’s not the only option at this time in history.
 
As previous posters have said, the latin might sound too fast if one doesn’t speak it. Also, the latin mass is said in a certain meter, a seried of unstressed syllables with a held and stressed syllable at the end. ---------//
 
Cat said:
I can’t get the hang of Latin in singing, speaking, or reading.
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That’s because no one taught it to you at an early age. If anything I’ll bet you were told not to bother because no one else understands Latin and it’s going away.

Well 300K+ twitter followers (more than in Polish, German, or Arabic) of the Pope in Latin say otherwise.
 
I would think people who have grown up hearing and or speaking Romance languages (such as Spanish and Italian) would have a better time with Latin even if they’ve never been exposed to actual Latin.

The vowel sounds and largely soft consonant sounds of Romance languages can be difficult for those who are used to languages (such as English) where the consonant sounds are much harder and the rhythms of the language tend to be built around those harder sounds.
 
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