Traditional Latin Mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anima_Christi
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I think in the Clear Creek Monestary, they only say the readings once, in English
Click to expand...
Heck-no!

The readings are chanted only once, and In Latin.

This is common in Tridentine-Rite monasteries, as the monks generally have a reading knowledge of Latin, and their apostolate is not be “pastoral” and thus cater to the laity by repeating the readings in English. The monastery does have English-Latin Missals, however, with which visiting faithful may follow along.

I don’t know about the defunct Satanic, super-gay Society of Saint John. I do know that they took their inspiration from Fontgombault Abbey, of which Clear Creek is a daughter-house, so it wouldn’t surprise me if they used a variant of the Tridentine Rite that was not exactly like the Tridentine Missal. Does anyone have any detaisl in this regard?
 
40.png
marcus29:
This is a good question. You need not look any further than the words of the man who was responsible for designing the missal.
As Archbishop Bugnini said:

“We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything that could constitute the slightest stumbling block or displeasure for our separated brethren, that is, for the Protestants” (L’Osservatore Romano, March 16, 1965).

This idea of Bugnini’s, to remove prayers that were too Catholic, is best shown by the almost complete removal of the offertory from NOM. Of the 12 Offertory prayers in the Traditional Rite, only two were retained. One of the prayers removed you have just mentioned: Accept, O Holy Father, Almighty and Everlasting God…

If you read some of Luther and Cranmers old writings you will see how much they detested the offertory and anything that talked of sacrifice. For Luther, the Mass is a sacrifice of praise, that is an act of praise, of thanksgiving, but certainly not an expiatory sacrifice which recreates the Sacrifice of Calvary and applies its merits.

To sum it up the Offertory was too Catholic, for Bugnini, and too explicit in its mentioning of expiatory sacrifice, so it had to go.
Click to expand...
I don’t know if this is true or not…but it sure looks like it- all this talk of ecumenism…no talk of explaining the truths that non-catholics may not accept. Archbishop Bugnini was either a heretic bent on destroying the Church, or clueless and should not have been trusted with such an important job.

The 1960’s was one of the most culturally turbulent times in modern world history- possibly even since the protestant reformation. For years, the Catholic Church was seen as a stable force in the world- even to secularists, then in the late 1960’s- while most everything else had been or was being turned upside down, the Catholic Church radically changed the liturgy of the Latin Rite- and they didn’t ask advice of the people, no- Paul VI and Bugnini did this on their own. They forced it on almost all Latin Rite Catholics (Padre Pio, and maybe some other people excepted).

Someone going to Mass in 1964, then not going until 1970 (just six years- that’s a VERY short time for that significant of a change) would experience something almost unrecognizeable. The Mass was changed from Latin to the vernacular, the mass was gutted significantly- as were the churches, Mass was celebrated facing the people- making the Mass seem more like a communal meal than a sacrifice.

Humanae Vitae shocked the world- why? Because the Church had just done something they thought she would never do- changed the liturgy- they expected the changes to flow over into moral teaching as well.

Michael Evans

St. John Cantius- pray for us
St. Pius X- pray for us
St. Pio of Pietrelcina- pray for us
 
40.png
Mysty101:
I certainly agree that the Latin High Mass is wonderful worship. However I do remember the 15 minute Latin daily Mass, where I needed to follow in the missal to know what was prayed. (and I could never read them as fast as the Priest)
Click to expand...
15 minutes seems too fast for the Tridentine Mass with all its prayers. But I know what you mean about priests rushing through the Mass. There is an older priest who would take his time during the Mass of the Catechumens, but when he got to the Mass of the Faithful I thought I was at the Indianapolis 500 with the way he rushed the prayers.
40.png
Mysty101:
I know I love attending Mass far more today than I did as a young child, even though I definitely remember wanting to be a daily communicant from when I made my First Communion. I think I did last at least one year.

I recently attended a Tridentine Mass, and was very disappointed. I do not like the readings in Latin. The ordinary of the Mass is OK, but I do prefer English. However I love the chants --Kyrie, Confeteor, Gloria, Pater Noster Agnus Dei, etc. in Latin.
Click to expand...
Did you attend a Sunday Mass or a weekday Mass? I’ve never been to a Sunday or Holy Day Tridentine Mass where the priest didn’t read the epistle and Gospel in English after he read them in Latin, but I’ve been to weekday Masses where the priest didn’t read either one in English.
40.png
Mysty101:
The change is here to stay. This forum is very traditional, but the rest of the world is not. I do trust that the Church did made changes to get more people to participate fully in the Mass, and this is what must be accepted. There is a shortage of Priests, and almost none who can or will celebrate a Mass in Latin. Most Parishes do not have sufficient interest in a Latin Mass to have them celebrated regularly.
Click to expand...
I agree except for the lack of priests to say the Tridentine Mass. I believe the priest shortage is manufactured from personal experience. There are many men willing to give their lives over to Jesus Christ. Many seminaries, including here in Chicago, are still run by the 1960s modernists who distort Vatican II.
I know recently ordained priests that would love to say the Tridentine Mass but meet with resistance from their pastors who came out of the seminary in the 1960s. These priests aren’t asking for a Sunday Mass or even a weekly Mass. They would like to offer one on First Fridays when there’s nothing going on in church. Their pastors immediately dismiss the idea even though the priest and people would like to have the Mass.
I think there is sufficient interest to have the Tridentine Mass in 5% of parishes in any diocese. We have the Tridentine Mass in the Chicago Archdiocese in three different locations every Sunday, all spread apart to make it easier for people to attend. My parish has the Tridentine Mass every third Sunday which is well attended.
40.png
Mysty101:
Sure most people who attend the Latin Mass today participate more fully. They have made a choice, and are very involved in their Religion–you won’t find anyone attending that Mass only because it is an obligation. There are far more very involved people who attend the NO Mass, and they participate far more fully than most of the people did when there was only the Latin Mass. Notice I said they participate more fully. I will make no judgement regarding the reverence of either group, They are both very devout and reverent----just legitimately different. I believe there were at least as many situations of inattentiion (and probably more) in the pre Vatican II Latin Mass as there are in the NO today.

All those who are only there because they have to be, and their mind is anywhere but at Mass also attend the NO Mass.
Click to expand...
I think people who attend the Tridentine Mass have a greater appreciation for it than those who did prior to Vatican II. I think the idea of greater participation in the Mass which came out of Vatican II has led to a greater appreciation in the Mass.
People who attend the Novus Ordo are as devout as those who attend the Tridentine Mass. I attend both and I see reverence from the people at both Masses because I see reverence from the priests. When the priests show reverence for the sacredness of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the people follow regardless of rite. The Church needs holy priests to help make the people holy.
 
Swiss Guard:
**I agree except for the lack of priests to say the Tridentine Mass. I believe the priest shortage is manufactured from personal experience. **
Click to expand...
Are you serious? Our seminary is lucky to get 6 Priests a year. Far more than that number die or retire.

**
**I know recently ordained priests that would love to say the Tridentine Mass but meet with resistance from their pastors who came out of the seminary in the 1960s. **
Click to expand...
**
I have not met one.

**
**I think there is sufficient interest to have the Tridentine Mass in 5% of parishes in any diocese. **
Click to expand...
**
Do you have any statistics to back this claim? We have a Parish of 4000 families, and they love the Italiam Mass for St Anthony, but I really don’t think anyone wants a Latin Mass

**
People who attend the Novus Ordo are as devout as those who attend the Tridentine Mass.
Click to expand...
**
Agreed
**
I attend both and I see reverence from the people at both Masses because I see reverence from the priests. When the priests show reverence for the sacredness of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the people follow regardless of rite. The Church needs holy priests to help make the people holy

I sincerely hope that every Priest is Holy in his own way. Any person who blames a Priest for his lack of faith or desire to attend Mass is just looking for excuses. EVERY Mass is a recreation of the sacrifice of Calvery, and it is so sad that some cannot see this. I have heard people say they disobeyed the commandment to attend Sunday Mass because the Mass was not celebrated as they thought it should be.**
 
40.png
Mysty101:
Are you serious? Our seminary is lucky to get 6 Priests a year. Far more than that number die or retire.
Click to expand...
How many men are applying to seminary and being deniesd entrance? How many men are told to “wait to apply” by modernist vocation directors who are screening out orthodox candidates for priesthood? I have encountered the latter in Chicago. Michael Rose does an excellent job of showing the manufactured crisis in his book Goodbye, Good Men. It should be noted that even Andrew Greeley backs up Rose’s claim of the “Lavender Mafia” being present at the Archdiocese of Chicago’s seminary at Mundelein.
40.png
Mysty101:
I have not met one.
Click to expand...
Come to Chicago and I will introduce you to young priests who want to say the Tridentine Mass.
40.png
Mysty101:
Do you have any statistics to back this claim? We have a Parish of 4000 families, and they love the Italiam Mass for St Anthony, but I really don’t think anyone wants a Latin Mass.
Click to expand...
**Do you have statistics to back up your claim that people don’t want the Tridentine Mass? I used to work for an organization that promotes the Tridentine Mass. There is sufficent interest in the Tridentine Mass to have it in about 5% of the parishes in a given diocese. This means Chicago would have 15 parishes with the Tridentine Mass. Some may be weekly, others may be once a month. A smaller diocese would mean two or three churches. **

I agree that the majority of people in a given diocese would not like the Tridentine Mass and I wouldn’t force a church to have one where the priests and people don’t want it. If your parish doesn’t want to have one, then it shouldn’t be forced to have one.
40.png
Mysty101:
Agreed.
Click to expand...
**See, we can agree on something. 👍 **
40.png
Mysty101:
I sincerely hope that every Priest is Holy in his own way. Any person who blames a Priest for his lack of faith or desire to attend Mass is just looking for excuses. EVERY Mass is a recreation of the sacrifice of Calvery, and it is so sad that some cannot see this. I have heard people say they disobeyed the commandment to attend Sunday Mass because the Mass was not celebrated as they thought it should be.
Click to expand...
What I meant by holy priests help make the laity holy is something Fr. Corapi preaches all the time. Certainly a person shouldn’t blame a bishop or priest, or even the pope, for his lack of faith or desire to follow the Catholic faith. However, when you have priests who live a holy life, they will increase the holiness in the people. My parish is named after St. John Vianney. Look what he did in Ars. One priest, by his holy life, changed an entire town.

People who nitpick for reasons not to attend Mass or practice their faith don’t want to do it. If you don’t like the way Mass is offered at your parish, find another one. I drive 15 miles to my parish.

I’m glad to see you back Mysty and I hope we can put our past differences behind us. I apologize for the way I have talked to you in the past, it was very uncharitable.
 
That was very kind of you to say.

I, too am sorry for allowing my temper get in the way of my own charity and of my love for the Catholic Church.

Sure we disagree on some points, but we just became over passionate in our beliefs.

Good to see you, too.
 
I have a question maybe not petinent to thread? If Novus Ordo folks are ordinary Catholics are Latin Mass folks extraordinary Catholics?
 
40.png
Silver_Thread:
Unrelated to your post, but I saw you are in Greensburg? Do you know of an EF Mass in the Diocese of Greensburg? I love TLM, but I don’t really like driving to Pittsburgh for it.
 
Does anyone know where I can find a translation of the Traditional Latin Mass in English on a website?

I am comparing different liturgies and really would appreciate any help.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
patwolford said:
Unrelated to your post, but I saw you are in Greensburg? Do you know of an EF Mass in the Diocese of Greensburg? I love TLM, but I don’t really like driving to Pittsburgh for it.
Click to expand...
Sorry I haven’t been at the Forum for a while. The only TLM celebrated in Greensburg is at St. Vincent College in Latrobe and that is only sparodic. It was said in the Crypt but it is now under renovation. We will be, however, sending our petition to the Ecclesia Dei Commission soon. Pray for us! We’re trying to build a base. Yahoo Groups, Greensburg Latin Mass.Keep in touch.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top