Traditional Liturgy Again

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OrthoCath

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From the Official newspaper of the Diocese of Phoenix
catholicsun.org/archives/nov18/tridentineMass.htm
While one might think the Tridentine Mass would appeal mainly to older Catholics, the faithful who attend the Mass at St. Thomas include 250-300 children and adults of all ages. They resemble any typical parish with one exception — a more traditional and conservative style of “Sunday best” attire. Men dress more formally and women mostly wear skirts rather than pants and keep their heads covered as a sign of reverence for God.
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Gee, even the diocese admits that people dress better at the Traditional Liturgy. Do you think they act better? I would think so.
 
Almost like they act “more Catholic” with a higher degree of reverence, awe, and mystery.

Fancy that! It’s called active participation in the Mass… not dancing, not hand clapping/waving, not innovative prayers, not EMHC, not lay readers,…

Active Spiritual Participation… God is pleased with that.
 
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OrthoCath:
“While one might think the Tridentine Mass would appeal mainly to older Catholics, the faithful who attend the Mass at St. Thomas include 250-300 children and adults of all ages. They resemble any typical parish with one exception — a more traditional and conservative style of “Sunday best” attire. Men dress more formally and women mostly wear skirts rather than pants and keep their heads covered as a sign of reverence for God.”

From the Official newspaper of the Diocese of Phoenix
catholicsun.org/archives/nov18/tridentineMass.htm

Gee, even the diocese admits that people dress better at the Traditional Liturgy. Do you think they act better? I would think so.
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More formal garb is always a good idea for attending the Mass, and those people should be commended for making the effort. Unfortunately, more fomral dress does not equate to acting better or more formally.

Whenever I have attended the Tridentine Mass locally, a bitter bunker-mentality laced with holier-than-though attitudes seem to prevail. To suggest for example that a covered woman’s head is a “sign of reverence for God” fine and dandy, but not when it’s done in the arrogant manner that is so prevelant at Tridentine Masses.
 
If you see real arrogance, that is not good. But I think much of the “attitude” is “don’t you know you are at God’s banquet, in His house?” or “is that the best you can do for your time with your God?”

Personally, if a man shows up in his work clothes, and perhaps a bit dirty or unshaven with good reason… better he be at Mass and not miss his obligation, than miss out all together.
 
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Franciscum:
To suggest for example that a covered woman’s head is a “sign of reverence for God” fine and dandy, but not when it’s done in the arrogant manner that is so prevelant at Tridentine Masses.
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How do they cover their heads in a “arrogant manner”???:confused:
 
In both the mass and the confessional, schismatic priests indulge in efforts to discourage the faithful from perceiving the orthodoxy of the Pauline rite of mass. This is harmful to the faithful and is plainly against the dogmas of the Church, including Trent.
 
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FrmrTrad:
In both the mass and the confessional, schismatic priests indulge in efforts to discourage the faithful from perceiving the orthodoxy of the Pauline rite of mass. This is harmful to the faithful and is plainly against the dogmas of the Church, including Trent.
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Is this statement from heresay, or experience, or just your opinion?

You make it sound like that is the standard M.O. of a “schismaic” priest. What happened to you to “p” you off so much?
 
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MrS:
If you see real arrogance, that is not good. But I think much of the “attitude” is “don’t you know you are at God’s banquet, in His house?” or “is that the best you can do for your time with your God?”

Personally, if a man shows up in his work clothes, and perhaps a bit dirty or unshaven with good reason… better he be at Mass and not miss his obligation, than miss out all together.
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Don’t get me wrong, I’m most certainly accepted as part of the “in-crowd” at the Tridentine Masses I attend.

It’s just sad to see people consumed with bitter bunker mentality. They even offend each other from time to time and that can be quite amusing.

With regard to female head coverings, I have seen some females with head covering act agressively rude to other women (typically visitors) who were not wearing head coverings.

Common courtesy would mandate the issue not even be brought-up before Mass as there is no Church directive to for laywomen to cover their heads, yet some people feel the need anyway…
 
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FrmrTrad:
In both the mass and the confessional, schismatic priests indulge in efforts to discourage the faithful from perceiving the orthodoxy of the Pauline rite of mass. This is harmful to the faithful and is plainly against the dogmas of the Church, including Trent.
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If they didn’t, how could they justify their own existance?
 
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FrmrTrad:
In both the mass and the confessional, schismatic priests indulge in efforts to discourage the faithful from perceiving the orthodoxy of the Pauline rite of mass. This is harmful to the faithful and is plainly against the dogmas of the Church, including Trent.
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That may be true, but aren’t there also many nonschismatic priests celebrating the Tridentine Mass? (FSSP, Institute of Christ the King, SSJC, diocesan clergy providing indult masses, etc.)
 
Andreas Hofer:
That may be true, but aren’t there also many nonschismatic priests celebrating the Tridentine Mass? (FSSP, Institute of Christ the King, SSJC, diocesan clergy providing indult masses, etc.)
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AMEN!!! As my signature says: "Freedom seperated from the truth leads to tyrany
 
Misericordie:

This is getting really old, and the moderators themselves have asked you to link to poctures, rather than posting them on the forum. We get the point; grow up.

Also, your pictures don’t prove anything. They are not typical of the Nervous Ordo, but are extremist.

Yes, the Missa Normativa is easily bastardized; eve when not celebrated in an abusive manner, it can still be celebrated without reverence or solemnity. (The same holds true for the Tridentine Mass, but to a much lesser degree.) I don’t see how any thinking person can deny this.

That having been said, this is still the Church’s normative Mass, and our priests are under obligation to celebrate this Mass as reverently as possible, and we the faithful to assist at this Mass, or any other approved by the Church. The Tridentine Mass, at present, is permissible only by Indult. No Catholic has a “right” to it. (We do have a right to a non-abusive Mass, but not to the rite of our choice. What the Church gives us is what we are to accept.)

Nothing justifies the current SSPX schism. Nothing. Not the most sacreligious Mass, the most heretical bishop, the most depraved priest: nothing. A holy man persecuted by his religious superiors is still bound to obey them in all things save sin.

Remember Saint Pius of Pietrelcina, falsely accused of sexual misconduct, and mistreated by his brethren and superiors? He was forced to not hear confessions or say Mass publicly. Did he go into schism because he knew he was in the right? No; he obeyed his superiors. Would Lefebvre and his schismatic followers have had the same good sense and holy dispositions!
 
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DominvsVobiscvm:
Misericordie:

This is getting really old, and the moderators themselves have asked you to link to poctures, rather than posting them on the forum. We get the point; grow up.

Also, your pictures don’t prove anything. They are not typical of the Nervous Ordo, but are extremist.

Yes, the Missa Normativa is easily bastardized; eve when not celebrated in an abusive manner, it can still be celebrated without reverence or solemnity. (The same holds true for the Tridentine Mass, but to a much lesser degree.) I don’t see how any thinking person can deny this.

That having been said, this is still the Church’s normative Mass, and our priests are under obligation to celebrate this Mass as reverently as possible, and we the faithful to assist at this Mass, or any other approved by the Church. The Tridentine Mass, at present, is permissible only by Indult. No Catholic has a “right” to it. (We do have a right to a non-abusive Mass, but not to the rite of our choice. What the Church gives us is what we are to accept.)

Nothing justifies the current SSPX schism. Nothing. Not the most sacreligious Mass, the most heretical bishop, the most depraved priest: nothing. A holy man persecuted by his religious superiors is still bound to obey them in all things save sin.

Remember Saint Pius of Pietrelcina, falsely accused of sexual misconduct, and mistreated by his brethren and superiors? He was forced to not hear confessions or say Mass publicly. Did he go into schism because he knew he was in the right? No; he obeyed his superiors. Would Lefebvre and his schismatic followers have had the same good sense and holy dispositions!
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funny how you order me to grow up, but then make that childish staement: reminds me of another famous saying: Many cannot see the truth even when its before their eyes.
 
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DominvsVobiscvm:
Misericordie:

This is getting really old, and the moderators themselves have asked you to link to poctures, rather than posting them on the forum. We get the point; grow up.

Also, your pictures don’t prove anything. They are not typical of the Nervous Ordo, but are extremist.

Yes, the Missa Normativa is easily bastardized; eve when not celebrated in an abusive manner, it can still be celebrated without reverence or solemnity. (The same holds true for the Tridentine Mass, but to a much lesser degree.) I don’t see how any thinking person can deny this.

That having been said, this is still the Church’s normative Mass, and our priests are under obligation to celebrate this Mass as reverently as possible, and we the faithful to assist at this Mass, or any other approved by the Church. The Tridentine Mass, at present, is permissible only by Indult. No Catholic has a “right” to it. (We do have a right to a non-abusive Mass, but not to the rite of our choice. What the Church gives us is what we are to accept.)

Nothing justifies the current SSPX schism. Nothing. Not the most sacreligious Mass, the most heretical bishop, the most depraved priest: nothing. A holy man persecuted by his religious superiors is still bound to obey them in all things save sin.

Remember Saint Pius of Pietrelcina, falsely accused of sexual misconduct, and mistreated by his brethren and superiors? He was forced to not hear confessions or say Mass publicly. Did he go into schism because he knew he was in the right? No; he obeyed his superiors. Would Lefebvre and his schismatic followers have had the same good sense and holy dispositions!
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My friend you must be confusing me with another poster, because NEVER have I been told anything on this by ANY moderator: please, state the truth here.
 
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