Traditional Lutherans May Form Own Denomination over Homosexuality Issue
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
While I don’t like seeing any group splitting, I wish them well in that endeavor. Lord knows how well it will do. The PCA has made a name for themselves, although the Evangelical Methodists are still moderately small. We’ll see what happens with these more traditional Lutherans. 
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ufamtobie
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
Actually I think he’s happy that there are men in the American branch of his church with the ol’ Semper Reformanda spirit. 
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Shiranui117
Guest
I saw an article in the paper about this today; one such Lutheran parish in Columbus is splitting off over almost the very same issue. I think I’ll go and take another look at that article. Glad to see these Lutherans sticking up for traditional Christianity.
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
Too bad this ELCA pastor doesn’t shed tears for the dead babies he and members of his denomination have killed or helped to kill by abortion. Late-term abortionist George Tiller was ushering at an ELCA gathering in Kansas when he was shot. ELCA belongs to the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Rights, which fights for the “right” to abortion on demand. The organization carries insurance that provides abortion services for female staff members. BTW, the Episcopal Church belongs to the RCRR also. May God have mercy.
Jim Dandy
Edit to add: I wouldn’t call them “traditional.” I wouldn’t even call them
Christian.
I am not defending the ELCA’s postion on abortion, but it is worth pointing out that some of the biggest abortion supporters - Pelosi, Kerry, et al - are Catholic. They are fighting to make the large pool of tax payer funds - yours and mine - available for folks like the late “Dr.” Tiller to continue their mayhem. It is a glass house situation.
Where you are right, is that the ELCA’s leadership and some of its policies have are evidence that it ceases to be confessional Lutheran, there there are many many people in the ELCA who still are.
Jon
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Dale_M
Guest
The NALC may not be as conservative as many assume. It will approve of female clergy, and it may not have a denominational position on abortion.
I couldn’t find any statement on abortion, but the NALC website does say this:
And a LCMC document says this about abortion:
So, unlike the Missouri Synod, the new denomination may not take an official stand on abortion.
I couldn’t find any statement on abortion, but the NALC website does say this:
thenalc.org/lcmc.php
And a LCMC document says this about abortion:
lcmc.net/pdf/qarev082506.pdf
So, unlike the Missouri Synod, the new denomination may not take an official stand on abortion.
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ufamtobie
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gcnuss
Guest
I was following the discussion online as the NALC was considering its proposed constitution. One pastor asked that the Executive Council provide statements of the NALC’s positions on women’s ordination, abortion, and divorce of clergy. I assume that this will be done in the future – the convocation was dealing with the basics of establishing a church body and the foundation from which issues of faith will be dealt with.
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Dale_M
Guest
Yes, my comment on abortion was highly speculative. However, Ryan Schwarz, vice-chairperson of Lutheran CORE, made an interesting comment about women’s ordination:
pewforum.org/Religion-News/RNS–Conservative-Lutherans-to-form-new-church-body.aspx
Of course, Schwarz does not speak for NALC, so my comment was premature. My sense, and I may be wrong about this, is that NALC will try to stake a middle ground between ELCA and LCMS. It will be interesting to see what positions it takes.
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Barbkw
Guest
About the time of the 2009 ELCA vote, Fr. Rutler was on EWTN talking about his book titled “Coincidentally” in which he wrote about history’s really odd coincidences.
I thought at the time, that the wind storm ripping off the Cross on the top of the Church steeple where the ELCA conference was being held, would also have qualified as entry into Fr. Rutler’s book.
See:
triangularchristianity.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/tornado-a-gentle-warning-to-the-elca/
Tornado: A Gentle Warning to the ELCA
August 20, 2009
“John Piper writes here about a tornado that hit the city of Minneapolis on August 19th (and specifically hits the church and snaps the cross on top of the steeple) at the start of an ELCA meeting where they were deciding if it is okay for a Pastor to be a practicing homosexual.”
I thought at the time, that the wind storm ripping off the Cross on the top of the Church steeple where the ELCA conference was being held, would also have qualified as entry into Fr. Rutler’s book.
See:
triangularchristianity.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/tornado-a-gentle-warning-to-the-elca/
Tornado: A Gentle Warning to the ELCA
August 20, 2009
“John Piper writes here about a tornado that hit the city of Minneapolis on August 19th (and specifically hits the church and snaps the cross on top of the steeple) at the start of an ELCA meeting where they were deciding if it is okay for a Pastor to be a practicing homosexual.”
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tcselim
Guest
I presently am an LCMS Lutheran, however I believe that all conservative Lutherans should be working toward some kind of re-union with Rome. The Anglo Lutheran Catholic Church would be a good alternative. They have filed petition with Rome to again after 500 years return to the Catholic Church. If Lutheran clergy and laymen would study the Catechism of the Catholic Church without pre-conceived prejudice, they would find the Church of Martin Luther.
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ufamtobie
Guest
It is always a sincere pleasure to see your name pop up.
Hey Jon,And the Orthodox say they have His promise on this.
Yes they the Orthodox say, but they don’t refer to the Pope. Since the creation of time God always set a leader to govern his people, am I not right? Yep give me a high five. And so it is with the New Church now over 2000 years old Jesus Christ also set a leader and the first was Peter guided by the Holy Spirit to guide it without error.
Lets go back in time, Moses led the people out of Egypt by the Hand of God. Now lets say there was a man by the name of Nathanwho wanted to separate from Moses and wanted to do his own thang, yep thang lol like erect a golden calf and worship it.
My point is, if you leave Moses or won’t refer to the Pope, and do your own thang out of disobedience this to is a bad thang:thumbsup:
Many Christians want to follow Jesus in their way, but there is only One Way to follow Jesus Christ, and that is through His One Church that He set with A leader/Pope to guide His People without error. Without the Pope the Vicar of Christ error will Come to that church, like practicing homosexual priest, woman priests, divorces like I just like this one better lol etc…accepting stuff like this is wrong for a church to do.
Yes, yes, yes, Johnny, I know what you are thinking, but there is error, you are saying look at the the priest who molested the children,look at this, look at that, looky, looky so that is why I play hooky from this Catholic Churchy lol
I tell you look at Judas the Betrayer now his sin was the worse sin that can ever be done and yet the Church still Stands. The Catholic Church is attacked everyday by men, Polosi, Kerry, Priests, Christians who have no leader/Pope to guide them without error, and Satan. But, I should say a big “BUT” Jesus Christ never did promise that his Church won’t be attacked, His promise was that the Gates of Hell will not prevail over it, there is a difference:thumbsup:
Jon, has the Moral Teachings of the Catholic Church ever strayed, Have they kept True since the beginning, has it bend for anyone, does it try to make people happy by saying things that the people want to hear. ect.? I rest my case.
Do you know that the Devout practicing Catholics will be judge harder than any Christian because we are in the True Faith, Yes, but the rewards will be greater in heaven for us and on earth as well, Why, because we are in the Church founded on Rock.
Jon, you know what I talk to much
May the Blessed Mother bring you Home, today.
Ufamtobie
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
The correct comparison is the teaching of the Catholic Church (adamantly pro-life) vs. the teaching of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (radically and adamantly pro-abortion).
A Church should not be judged by those who dissent from its teaching, but by the content of its teaching.
As you point out, there are dissenters in both organizations.
According to the LCMS webiste, there are 250 kinds of Lutherans worldwide, so what is “confessional Lutheran”?
All the best, Jim Dandy
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
But … they won’t find Sola Scriptura and Sole Fide, the foundational doctrines of Martin Luther’s ecclesial community and the thousands that have followed.
Peace be with you, Jim Dandy
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
Sad thing is they wouldn’t find those two in a lot of modern Lutheran churches either.
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loneviking
Guest
No, much as I care about my RCC siblings, what would be found would be the church that Martin Luther left in protest over!
Indulgences? Still there…
Righteousness by good works? Still there and still against Sola Fide…
Purgatory? Still there…
The Pope? Still there…
And add to that papal infallability which runs strongly counter to Sola Scriptura, and you have a theology to which there can be no return.
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SedesDomi
Guest
Where?
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