Traditional Mass "Not a priority?"

[PreVatII]

This article hits the nail on the head! After forty years of auto-destruction, our bishops can not grasp that the liturgical renewal (and all that came with it), has lead to the massive problems they now encounter.

Where is another St. Athanasius?

michnews.com/artman/publish/article_9914.shtml

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Even if a reform of the reform were the sole object of consideration for the synod, this would not necessitate making a restoration of the Pian missal a “priority.” I say that as a devotee of the Tridentine rite, so I would greatly appreciate a wider permission for that missal’s usage. But when it comes down to it, there is more than one way to skin a cat - the bishops are looking for the other options.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

Very interesting article. I notice that one of the reasons given for not making the TLM a priority is that people nowadays are receiving Communion without going to Confession.

Yesterday, I read a thread here about the TLM, and many people posted links to parishes that offer it. I visited quite a few of the web sites, and I noticed one thing the parishes all had in common – they have opportunities for Confession before every Mass, even on weekdays, not just for 30 minutes on a Saturday afternoon (where does that leave those of us who are not free on Saturday afternoons, and would still like to make use of the “anonymous” option?)

For this reason alone, it might be good to have TLM’s offered in more locations – maybe if parishes would demonstrate the importance of Confession by making it more of a priority, fewer people would just ignore the Sacrament.

Crazy Internet Junkies Society**
**Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

 

[Anima_Christi]

CarolAnnSFO:

Very interesting article. I notice that one of the reasons given for not making the TLM a priority is that people nowadays are receiving Communion without going to Confession.

Yesterday, I read a thread here about the TLM, and many people posted links to parishes that offer it. I visited quite a few of the web sites, and I noticed one thing the parishes all had in common – they have opportunities for Confession before every Mass, even on weekdays, not just for 30 minutes on a Saturday afternoon (where does that leave those of us who are not free on Saturday afternoons, and would still like to make use of the “anonymous” option?)
For this reason alone, it might be good to have TLM’s offered in more locations – maybe if parishes would demonstrate the importance of Confession by making it more of a priority, fewer people would just ignore the Sacrament.
Crazy Internet Junkies Society**
**Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

Where I attend the traditional Mass, Father hears confessions before every mass–even the weekday masses at 7am. I also notice that there are always a sizeable group of people who don’t receive communion. The Traditional Latin mass is the only place I don’t feel embarrassed not receiving communion at (when I’m not in a state of grace).

 

[Freeway4321]

"For those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, let them see and hear—and read the signs of the times.

Pray for an end to communion in the hand and under the species of wine, where it is spilled and trampled under feet daily. Pray for a return to the normal reception (currently, the universal NORM in the entire Catholic Church) of Holy Communion kneeling. Pray for an end to the non-ordained administering the Holy Eucharist to the laity.

Pray for reparation to be made against the sacrilege, outrage, indifference and irreverence shown to the Holy Eucharist and the Blessed Sacrament.

Pray to Pope St. Pius X for the freeing of the Traditional Latin Mass to all Latin-rite priests on all the altars of the world on a daily basis. Pray for an end to the apostasy in the Church and for more courageous bishops to follow the leads of Archbishop Burke in St. Louis, Bishop Doran in Rockford, Illiniois, and Bishop Bruskewitz in Lincoln, Nebraska, to give a “wide and generous” application of the Traditional Latin rite of Mass to their priests and laity.

And most of all, pray for a truly heartfelt and humble reading of “the signs of the times” as the bishops close this year of the Holy Eucharist."

Amen.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

While I too would like to see wider availability of the TLM, this article seems to begin from a fallacious supposition all too common to Traditionalists. Namely, that if the Mass according to the 1962 Missal was still being offered on every altar in the world, in Latin, ad orientem, etc. that the Church would have no problems. This assumes that the Church exists in some type of hermetically sealed bubble. Sadly, this is not the case. The world does influence the Church, sometimes to her great detriment.

The cultural decline that accelerated in the late 60s would have infected the Church even if good Pope John had decided to do nothing more during his Pontificate than wander the Vatican gardens. Keep in mind also that all the priests who were liturgical “experimenters” or “innovators” and later grew up to be seminary professors, bishops and syndicated newspaper columnists were educated at seminaries in the 40s and 50s (the “good” old days). The putrid rot in our Church that came to the fore in the 60s and 70s was festering for decades just under the surface and, as we’ve seen in recent years, is still bearing its rancid fruit.

It’s highly unlikely that the TLM would’ve been able to stem that tide. We just would’ve seen clown Masses and such like said ad orientem and girl altar boys saying, “Ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam.”

I believe God gives us the priests and bishops we deserve, no matter what language the Mass is said in.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

Apostasy. Heresy. Desecration of the Most August Sacrifice.

At Mass.

Just another day in the life of a Catholic. Sad thing is, most don’t know, and don’t want to know.

I was speaking to someone the other day, and we turned to the topic of liturgical dance. He was all for it. I showed him VATICAN DOCUMENTS denouncing it, and all he said was, “you’re wrong, there are liturgical dance groups.”
I replied, “they are illegitmate”
He replied, “It was written in 1975, things have changed.”
I replied, “It is the most recent document on the matter.”
He replied, “You’re wrong”
et cetera.

God Save Us All.

 

[Genesis315]

Servus Pio XII:

Apostasy. Heresy. Desecration of the Most August Sacrifice.

At Mass.

Just another day in the life of a Catholic. Sad thing is, most don’t know, and don’t want to know.

I was speaking to someone the other day, and we turned to the topic of liturgical dance. He was all for it. I showed him VATICAN DOCUMENTS denouncing it, and all he said was, “you’re wrong, there are liturgical dance groups.”
I replied, “they are illegitmate”
He replied, “It was written in 1975, things have changed.”
I replied, “It is the most recent document on the matter.”
He replied, “You’re wrong”
et cetera.

God Save Us All.

Pope Benedict denounced liturgical dance before he was pope.

Dancing is not a form of expression for the Christian liturgy. In about the third century, there was an attempt in certain Gnostic-Docetic circles to introduce it into the liturgy. For these people, the Crucifixion was only an appearance. . . . Dancing could take the place of the liturgy of the Cross, because, after all, the Cross was only an appearance. The cultic dances of the different religions have different purposes - incantation, imitative magic, mystical ecstasy - none of which is compatible with the essential purpose of the liturgy as the “reasonable sacrifice”. It is totally absurd to try to make the liturgy “attractive” by introducing dancing pantomimes (wherever possible performed by professional dance troupes), which frequently (and rightly, from the professionals’ point of view) end with applause. Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.

Also, check out this article about why people doing whatever they want with the liturgy is wrong (besides the obvious). It’s long, but it really shows that how we worship is of the utmost importance:

lumengentleman.com/index.asp?id=77&reason=0

 

[Ham1]

Dr. Bombay:

While I too would like to see wider availability of the TLM, this article seems to begin from a fallacious supposition all too common to Traditionalists. Namely, that if the Mass according to the 1962 Missal was still being offered on every altar in the world, in Latin, ad orientem, etc. that the Church would have no problems. This assumes that the Church exists in some type of hermetically sealed bubble. Sadly, this is not the case. The world does influence the Church, sometimes to her great detriment.

The cultural decline that accelerated in the late 60s would have infected the Church even if good Pope John had decided to do nothing more during his Pontificate than wander the Vatican gardens. Keep in mind also that all the priests who were liturgical “experimenters” or “innovators” and later grew up to be seminary professors, bishops and syndicated newspaper columnists were educated at seminaries in the 40s and 50s (the “good” old days). The putrid rot in our Church that came to the fore in the 60s and 70s was festering for decades just under the surface and, as we’ve seen in recent years, is still bearing its rancid fruit.

It’s highly unlikely that the TLM would’ve been able to stem that tide. We just would’ve seen clown Masses and such like said ad orientem and girl altar boys saying, “Ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam.”

I believe God gives us the priests and bishops we deserve, no matter what language the Mass is said in.

Great post!

The real issue that led to the problems within the Church was the creeping in of modernism into the seminaries in the 30’s and 40’s. After all, MANY of the liturgical abuses that were perpetrated in 1970’s were done by priests who went to seminary well before Vatican II and the changes of the Mass. A great number of pastors in the 70’s and 80’s would have attended the seminary in the 50’s. And who was teaching in those seminaries in the 50’s? Priests educated in the 30’s.

It is easy to think that the changes in the Mass brought about trouble in the Church, but unfortunately, it just doesn’t seem to add up.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

Actually, it could still add up.

If you, for example, are raised very rigidly, it may inspire rebellion, correct? Well, with the changing Church, the priests who had, until then, been practising to the letter all that they had been taught, decided that now they could change that one, little thing which vexed them. Then another. Then a third. And, eventually, the entire ordeal began to develop into a death-spiral, and the apostacy began.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

PreVatII:

This article hits the nail on the head! After forty years of auto-destruction, our bishops can not grasp that the liturgical renewal (and all that came with it), has lead to the massive problems they now encounter.

Where is another St. Athanasius?

michnews.com/artman/publish/article_9914.shtml

I think part of the problem is that many of the Traditional crowd look at it as if the Mass is the cause of all the issues you bring up.

It isn’t. The issue is obedience.

 

[Lizbert]

I left the church in 1973 and when I left I do remember that not everyone would go to Communion. When I returned to being a fully functioning Catholic six months ago I noticed that everyone and I do mean everyone went to Communion. I go to Confession, I mean Reconcilliation, once a month and there is never more than a handful of people there. They don’t make it very convenient for working folks. I am having a hard time adjusting to some of the weird antics at our church. The Sign of Peace is a circus with folks running all over the place. I want my “old Mass” back.

 

[harinkj]

PreVatII:

This article hits the nail on the head! After forty years of auto-destruction, our bishops can not grasp that the liturgical renewal (and all that came with it), has lead to the massive problems they now encounter.

Where is another St. Athanasius?

michnews.com/artman/publish/article_9914.shtml

If this synod was comprised of only bishops from the United States, one could almost expect this lack of interest in the Tridentine Latin Mass.:tsktsk:

But the synod was made up of bishops from around the world. Have all traditionalists left for the Society of Saint Pius X?

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[cyprian]

Ham1:

Great post!

The real issue that led to the problems within the Church was the creeping in of modernism into the seminaries in the 30’s and 40’s. After all, MANY of the liturgical abuses that were perpetrated in 1970’s were done by priests who went to seminary well before Vatican II and the changes of the Mass. A great number of pastors in the 70’s and 80’s would have attended the seminary in the 50’s. And who was teaching in those seminaries in the 50’s? Priests educated in the 30’s.

It is easy to think that the changes in the Mass brought about trouble in the Church, but unfortunately, it just doesn’t seem to add up.

Correct!!
education is the key, and it’s up to us and our priests.

 

[rwoehmke]

Dr. Bombay:

While I too would like to see wider availability of the TLM, this article seems to begin from a fallacious supposition all too common to Traditionalists. Namely, that if the Mass according to the 1962 Missal was still being offered on every altar in the world, in Latin, ad orientem, etc. that the Church would have no problems. This assumes that the Church exists in some type of hermetically sealed bubble. Sadly, this is not the case. The world does influence the Church, sometimes to her great detriment.

The cultural decline that accelerated in the late 60s would have infected the Church even if good Pope John had decided to do nothing more during his Pontificate than wander the Vatican gardens. Keep in mind also that all the priests who were liturgical “experimenters” or “innovators” and later grew up to be seminary professors, bishops and syndicated newspaper columnists were educated at seminaries in the 40s and 50s (the “good” old days). The putrid rot in our Church that came to the fore in the 60s and 70s was festering for decades just under the surface and, as we’ve seen in recent years, is still bearing its rancid fruit.

It’s highly unlikely that the TLM would’ve been able to stem that tide. We just would’ve seen clown Masses and such like said ad orientem and girl altar boys saying, “Ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam.”

I believe God gives us the priests and bishops we deserve, no matter what language the Mass is said in.

Well said Dr. Bombay. It seems that few have your insight.