Traditional Mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter Christian_Sr
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Contrary to what Christian Sr said, I have made no private attacks against him, though what he has written here amounts to a public accusation against me.

I merely did not understand what he meant by “Protesant form” and “lack of Catholic form,” and requested he explain his words.

In his answer to me, it boiled down that he simply did not like so called “Praise and Worship music,” though such ditties are by no means intrinsically Protestant. I have heard one traditional Orthodox chant used in a rather liberal church as a P/W chorus. (He also complained about the behavior of the choir director in not stopping at the appropriate time, but this doesn’t come up to the level of “Catholic/Protestant form” but is simply bad manners on the choir director’s part–at most.)

In the Baptist Church in which I was raised, the deacons would pass out the plates of matzoth and grape juice. Since no women were involved, was this Protestant or Catholic form? After all, are not Deacons historically normal ministers of Holy Communion?

As I have said elsewhere, all such phrases (including the overworked “liturgical abuse”) frequently boil down to no more than “I don’t like this.”
I am on this forum to ask questions. I am new to the Catholic Church and do not know everything about it like you do. I asked you about the ‘attacks’ in the private messages and you did not respond. I am asking genuine questions hopefully of genuine people. Forgive me if I don’t already have the answers. As I said in the PM, please stop.
 
The main issue that I have had is the use of non-Catholic music such as praise and worship style. Also, I was not aware that women could serve the Eucharist. I thought that it was only the priest or deacon that could serve. I’m not trying to nit-pick. I’m new to this and I have questions. I’m not trying to offend anyone or upset anyone, just trying get some simple answers to what I thought were simple questions. That’s all. Also, I’m on the eastern side too.
I agree with you as well. The “modern music” that has infected the O.F. disturbs me. I rather have Gregorian Chant. The “Liturgical abuses” and the 'blurring" of the roles of the “Priest” and “Ministers” gets me on edge.

I have had many debates and discussions with members of my Parishes and Priests about it. You are not alone! It is good to hear that you can see the dividing line that many laity follow. I rather go to a E.F. Mass or a Eastern Rite, “Devine Liturgy”. Watch E.W.T.N. on cable. They have a properly said OF Mass.

There are many books that discuss the problems that you are talking about. Here are some links that will help.

www.tanbooks.com
booksforcatholics.com/
www.spiritdaily.com.
www.newoxfordreview.com.
remnantnewspaper.com/
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/
ecclesiadei.org/
 
I must admit, I was at first confused by the distinction being made between “Catholic form” and “Protestant form,” as every Protestant service I have ever attended has been fairly free-form whereas the three parishes I have attended in my lifetime have all followed the same standardized version of the OF. Then I saw you were from New Mexico and realized something a friend of mine (a Dominican Brother) told me–“Ohio is that strange and bizarre place where collectively the voters can upset an entire election, but from one end of the state to the other, the Mass is universally celebrated in almost identical form wherever you go.” I’ve attended Catholic Masses outside of my diocese (where all three of my parish memberships have been) and Brother Luke is absolutely right–I could follow along about 98% from memory and only rarely had to glance at the missal.

I guess, for me, the distinction has always been that, except for Lutherans and Episcopalians, Catholics maintain a ritualized form of the Mass whilst most Protestants kind of “wing it” during their services. It really was naive for me to expect that all the cowboy Masses of the 1970’s were over and done with and that regularity had been restored. 😊 Ohio also is not a culturally-diverse state.
 
In response to the previous two–First, I have been watching the daily Mass on EWTN. We started watching that long before going to an actual Parish–I guess we got spoiled. As I have said before I am new to all of this. Eventually I’ll get the hang of it. Thank you!!
 
I have been rereading the posts on this thread because for some reason I am very unsettled. I realize that my own terminology has been off especially when I used the words form and traditional. By form I was referring to the flow of the service. Until this thread I was not aware that there are different ‘forms’ of Mass. As for the use of traditional, in my mind a traditional service or Mass is like what I have seen on EWTN. I am seeing where my own confusion has confused some of the other participants. I am sorry and I hope this clarifies my mindset when I originally asked the question.
 
I have been rereading the posts on this thread because for some reason I am very unsettled. I realize that my own terminology has been off especially when I used the words form and traditional. By form I was referring to the flow of the service. Until this thread I was not aware that there are different ‘forms’ of Mass. As for the use of traditional, in my mind a traditional service or Mass is like what I have seen on EWTN. I am seeing where my own confusion has confused some of the other participants. I am sorry and I hope this clarifies my mindset when I originally asked the question.
No harm done! 🙂 I had a feeling when I read your OP that you weren’t talking about being disappointed with the Ordinary Form of the Mass (the “new Mass”) in general, but rather you’re disappointed with the way certain parishes that you’ve been to celebrate the Mass. That is, those services that blur the line stylistically between Catholic and Protestant worship. And those churches we’ve all been to that just don’t look like traditional Catholic churches. 😦

I always say I prefer the Latin Mass. But really a TLM and a reverent, orthodox Mass in the Ordinary Form are about equal in my book.
 
I am on this forum to ask questions. I am new to the Catholic Church and do not know everything about it like you do. I asked you about the ‘attacks’ in the private messages and you did not respond. I am asking genuine questions hopefully of genuine people. Forgive me if I don’t already have the answers. As I said in the PM, please stop.
You asked about something that didn’t exist, because I did not attack you.

I, on the other hand, asked you to clarify your own words, especially about what you meant by “Protestant form” and the like. It took several exchanges to get you to do so.

There is a wide range of liturgical practice in the Latin Church. Actually, there always has been even before Vatican II, but the differences then had a different kind of difference (to borrow a phrase by C. S. Lewis). There are even differences from parish to parish in how the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom is celebrated, but they might not always be noticeable to the person in the pew, and certainly not to a Western Christian.
 
Cluny, whether or not you consider it an attack is beside the point. Go back through your posts, the sarcasm in your comments comes across to me as a personal attack ie post#12. I am asking simple questions as I have stated before. Sarcasm and debate where never the intention of this thread. Also, as I have stated in the PM, our personal experiences are totally different.
 
🙂 👍

An aside:
LilyM: If memory serves, the changes - use of English, priest facing the people and so on -
I grew up in the Anglican community. The first time I noticed a priest facing the people was in a Catholic Church.
Free-standing altars (the type that has to be used in Masses where the priest faces the people - free standing so he can stand behind it and face them) are also known as ‘Cranmer tables’. Precisely because they were introduced into Anglican liturgy by Thomas Cranmer, Archbishop of Canterbury under Edward VI.

So while it may not have been practiced in the Anglican churches you’ve frequented, the tradition of the priest facing the people in Anglican liturgy dates back to Edward VI.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top