"Traditional" Mendicant Male Orders?

[Thomas_Francis]

Are there any “traditional” mendicant male orders? By “traditional” I mean an order that only celebrates the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass according to the 1962 missal and prays the 1962 Divine Office. I just can’t seem to find any…

I’m considering a vocation to the religious life, and I’m really looking for a “traditional” order. In particular I’m interested in the discalced Carmelites.

At this point I’d be delighted to find even a liturgically and theologically conservative order for men.

 

[JReducation]

You may find houses that celebrate the EF and use the older breviary, but you will not find the entire order doing it. It’s not legal. The mendicants must follow the constitutions dictated by the General Chapter and approved by the Holy See. In the case of the Augustinians, Dominicans and Servites, they must also follow the Rule of St. Augustine, which demands that they follow the Church. In the case of the Franciscans, they must comply with the rules of St. Francis. He wrote three, one for each of his orders. These also prohibit disallowing what the Church allows. The Carmelites follow the Rule of St. Albert. That rule also commands the friars to follow the Church. I should also mention that not all Augustinians are mendicants. Some are canons.

Then you have the mendicant congregations, which are not orders, but live the mendicant life, such as the Missionaries of Charity, the Missionaries of the Poor, Franciscans of the Renewal, Franciscans of the Immaculate, Franciscans of the Eternal Word. In the case of the Franciscan congregations, they follow one of the three Rules of St. Francis, all of which demand absolute allegiance to the papacy. In the case of the other mendicant communities, they demand that you follow the constitutions. But their constitutions were inspired to live and work in a particular cultural environment that makes it impossible for them to exclusively use the EF.

The bottom line here is that if you want to be a mendicant, your priority has to be to become a brother, regardless of what form of the mass or which breviary the community uses. For the mendicants the order of priorities are:

1. 
   *]Prayer
   *]Obedience to the founder and to the papacy
   *]Fidelity to the laws of the Church
   *]Fraternity
   *]Poverty
   *]Penance
   *]Ministry
   
   Numbers two and three are going to be the glitch. Fidelity to the founder and to the papacy means that the order or the congregation never takes a position that is in conflict with the Holy See. In this case, if the Holy See says the the Tridentine Form is extraordinary, the mendicant founder is not going to allow his sons to say that it is ordinary. Their words and actions must reflect that they think with the Church as it is today.
   
   Fidelity to the laws of the Church demand that the mendicants may not prohibit what the Church allows or allow what the Church prohibits, unless they have an indult or it has been part of their tradition and the charism of the order would suffer if they changed it.
   
   Fraternity is another issue at several levels. Some of the mendicant orders have a rite of their own. There would be a contradiction to tradition to use the Tridentine form of the Roman Rite, when they can use their own rite, if they want an alternative to the Roman Rite. The introduction of too many forms and rites can quickly divide a fraternity.
   
   Among the Franciscans, which is the largest mendicant family, the issue is that you cannot split the community. Unless the brothers agree to make the Tridentine form the ordinary form, it cannot happen. You cannot have one house using the EF and five others using the OF. This would create chaos. Imagine being the major superior trying to transfer men around. You can’t put this one in that house, because he doesn’t like the OF or put that one in that house because he does not like the EF. The best thing to do is to use the Roman-Franciscan Missal and Breviary as it is today.
   
   The Franciscans of the Immaculate do use the EF, but not consistently either. By that I mean that they have very specific times and situations in which they use it. Rumor has it that they are working on re-creating the Seraphic Missal, which would be a hybrid of the Tridentine form and the old Franciscan form. I don’t know how true this is or how far along this is. We are not in the same region; therefore, we don’t have contact.
   
   Again, even the FI, they are still Franciscans. The priority is not going to be the liturgy. Their priority is going to be to walk the path of St. Francis of Assisi and their Marian ministry, which is what makes them unique from the other Franciscans. The liturgy can be Tridentine today and Byzantine tomorrow. This was not a major concern for St. Francis or St. Clare.
   
   The first sign of a vocation to the mendicant life is detachment. This means detachment from everything that is not essential to the vision and mission of the founder. The Tridentine form is not essential to any of the mendicant founders and law givers. They don’t even mention it. They either went with their own rite or they went with whatever served the spiritual needs of the community. When and where the Tridentine form worked for them, they used it. If not, they kept their own rites or they modified the Tridentine form to reflect their culture. For example, Franciscans used a much simpler version of the Tridentine form. It was less elaborate and more austere.
   
   To be a mendicant, one’s focus must be on detachment from everything that is not essential to the charism. If that is a hardship, then it is the first sign that one does not have a vocation to be a friar.
   
   Fraternally,
   
   Br. JR, FFV

 

[Thomas_Francis]

You may find houses that celebrate the EF and use the older breviary, but you will not find the entire order doing it. It’s not legal.

Yes, my first mistake. I meant perhaps congregations, provinces, or even specific houses.

Maybe you could explain to me how groups such as the Institute of Christ the King, the Fraternity of St. Peter, and the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer are able to exclusively say the Tridentine Mass.

Then you have the mendicant congregations, which are not orders, but live the mendicant life, such as the Missionaries of Charity, the Missionaries of the Poor, Franciscans of the Renewal, Franciscans of the Immaculate, Franciscans of the Eternal Word. In the case of the Franciscan congregations, they follow one of the three Rules of St. Francis, all of which demand absolute allegiance to the papacy. In the case of the other mendicant communities, they demand that you follow the constitutions. But their constitutions were inspired to live and work in a particular cultural environment that makes it impossible for them to exclusively use the EF.

Do you know of any mendicant congregations that exclusively use the EF. This is compatible with absolute allegiance to the papacy, is it not?

The bottom line here is that if you want to be a mendicant, your priority has to be to become a brother, regardless of what form of the mass or which breviary the community uses. For the mendicants the order of priorities are:

1. 
   *]Prayer
   *]Obedience to the founder and to the papacy
   *]Fidelity to the laws of the Church
   *]Fraternity
   *]Poverty
   *]Penance
   *]Ministry

1. 
   

   Numbers two and three are going to be the glitch. Fidelity to the founder and to the papacy means that the order or the congregation never takes a position that is in conflict with the Holy See. In this case, if the Holy See says the the Tridentine Form is extraordinary, the mendicant founder is not going to allow his sons to say that it is ordinary. Their words and actions must reflect that they think with the Church as it is today.

   Again, the Church has made provisions for communities that wish to retain the traditions of the Church, right?
   

   Fidelity to the laws of the Church demand that the mendicants may not prohibit what the Church allows or allow what the Church prohibits, unless they have an indult or it has been part of their tradition and the charism of the order would suffer if they changed it.

   Maybe you could help me find those communities then.
   

   Fraternity is another issue at several levels. Some of the mendicant orders have a rite of their own. There would be a contradiction to tradition to use the Tridentine form of the Roman Rite, when they can use their own rite, if they want an alternative to the Roman Rite. The introduction of too many forms and rites can quickly divide a fraternity.

   Among the Franciscans, which is the largest mendicant family, the issue is that you cannot split the community. Unless the brothers agree to make the Tridentine form the ordinary form, it cannot happen. You cannot have one house using the EF and five others using the OF. This would create chaos. Imagine being the major superior trying to transfer men around. You can’t put this one in that house, because he doesn’t like the OF or put that one in that house because he does not like the EF. The best thing to do is to use the Roman-Franciscan Missal and Breviary as it is today.
   …
   The first sign of a vocation to the mendicant life is detachment. This means detachment from everything that is not essential to the vision and mission of the founder. The Tridentine form is not essential to any of the mendicant founders and law givers. They don’t even mention it. They either went with their own rite or they went with whatever served the spiritual needs of the community. When and where the Tridentine form worked for them, they used it. If not, they kept their own rites or they modified the Tridentine form to reflect their culture. For example, Franciscans used a much simpler version of the Tridentine form. It was less elaborate and more austere.

   Maybe you could suggest provinces or communities that are line with Rome in that they do not abuse the liturgy, but celebrate the Ordinary Form with reverence. Or maybe you know of a community of Franciscans that use the Franciscan form of the Tridentine Mass.
   

   The Franciscans of the Immaculate do use the EF, but not consistently either. By that I mean that they have very specific times and situations in which they use it. Rumor has it that they are working on re-creating the Seraphic Missal, which would be a hybrid of the Tridentine form and the old Franciscan form. I don’t know how true this is or how far along this is. We are not in the same region; therefore, we don’t have contact.

   Again, even the FI, they are still Franciscans. The priority is not going to be the liturgy. Their priority is going to be to walk the path of St. Francis of Assisi and their Marian ministry, which is what makes them unique from the other Franciscans. The liturgy can be Tridentine today and Byzantine tomorrow. This was not a major concern for St. Francis or St. Clare.
   …
   To be a mendicant, one’s focus must be on detachment from everything that is not essential to the charism. If that is a hardship, then it is the first sign that one does not have a vocation to be a friar.

   Fraternally,

   Br. JR, FFV

   Thank you for your suggestions and (name removed by moderator)ut. I suppose I should find a community that has the respect for the liturgy as a charism. Most communities I have seen migrate from the Rule that they observe, or do not observe the entire Rule, or abuse the liturgy. I’m looking for fidelity to the pope and for reverence in the liturgy.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Maybe you could explain to me how groups such as the Institute of Christ the King, the Fraternity of St. Peter, and the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer are able to exclusively say the Tridentine Mass.

The men of the former two groups are not religious. They are secular priests belonging to Societies of Apostolic Life of Pontifical right. It is much easier for such groups to have exclusive use of the traditional expressions of liturgy than it is for religious. This is because these men are not consecrated, do not have superiors in the sense that religious do, do not have rules, etc. These men go to seminary and then are ordained, much like any diocesan priest.

To explain the situation of the Sons–who are religious–I believe they are permitted to do what they do because they are a (semi-)independent group of (newly!) diocesan right.

 

[JReducation]

First of all Son, I’m deeply moved by your desire to be faithful to the liturgical life of the Church. It’s always a good sign. Second, when you join a religious community, you join a family. Let’s say that it’s a family of mendicants who are supposed to be particularly obedient. This does not mean that we are finished products. This obedience is the ideal toward which we work. Each of us is at a different point along the journey. Some of us are more rebellious because of age, temperament, culture or just habit. Others are careless, because of poor upbringing. Some are very disciplined. Nonetheless, we love each other and we help each other along, without pushing to hard so as not to break the spirit and without leaving anyone behind. You’re going to find a variety of personalities, as in any large family.

Yes, my first mistake. I meant perhaps congregations, provinces, or even specific houses.

If you read the top, you don’t join a particular house. You join the order or the congregation. You can be assigned to any house in any place. You have to be open to the possibility of living with the less than perfect friar. Who is still your brother and whom you must never judge or make him feel as if he’s less Catholic than you are. That’s important, if we are to be truly brothers to each other.

I can’t point you to a house or to a province, because houses and provinces can change as the population changes. I can say that a community such as the Franciscans of the Immaculate has a liturgy much closer to that of Traddom than other branches of the order. However, you must commit exclusively to Marian Ministry. That’s why they were founded, not for the liturgy. They walk in the footsteps of St. Francis, while teaching and preaching Franciscan Marian spirituality.

Maybe you could explain to me how groups such as the Institute of Christ the King, the Fraternity of St. Peter, and the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer are able to exclusively say the Tridentine Mass.

These institute were founded as Traditionalist communities. I’m not sure about the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer, because they’re religious, but the ICRSS and FSSP must be willing to celebrate both the EF and the OF.

Do you know of any mendicant congregations that exclusively use the EF.

There are none.

This is compatible with absolute allegiance to the papacy, is it not?

No it would not be. The Tridentine form is the extraordinary form. If a mendicant community adopts it as its normal form, then it ceases to be extraordinary for this community. That’s the first problem that it will run into with the papacy.

The second problem that it will run into with the papacy is that the papacy has made it clear that the mendicants are to recover the original spirit of their founders. The mendicant founders had different approaches to liturgy. The Dominicans were formal, but had their own rite. The Carmelites were heremetical , but with their own rite. The Franciscans used the Roman Rite, but kept it as simple and as austere as possible, also as easy for the laity to use. Call it “lay friendly”. The Tridentine form does not meet any of those criteria. To make it the exclusive form of any mendicant community, would be contrary to the mandate to go back.

Finally, the mendicants were founded as brotherhoods of equals. Except for the Dominicans, where priests are essential, because they were founded as an order of priests, the other mendicants have priests by accident, not by necessity. The Tridentine form is very clerical. Franciscans have tweaked it to allow for all of the friars, ordained or not, to participate in the sanctuary and the sisters too. But that’s not what is supposed to happen during the Tridentine form. It’s the only way to keep it from becoming the mass of the priests, while the other friars just attend mass. That too would be contrary to to hopes of the papacy for a return to an egalitarian fraternity of ordained and on ordained brothers.

Again, the Church has made provisions for communities that wish to retain the traditions of the Church, right?

Yes, but each in keeping with their charism. The liturgy does not trump the charism of an order. The charism of the order really guides the liturgy of the community, not the other way around. For example, if you visit a Cistercian abbey, you will find that the chapels are sparse. They look like Protestant churches in New England. Actually, they had this look before the Protestants made it fashionable. Their mass is very fraternal with all of the monks around the altar, even though only one or two are priests. Those who are priests will concelebrate or one will celebrate the mass and the others attend along with the non ordained monks. You see, the charism of St. Bernard, guides the celebration of the liturgy. That’s how the provisions work.

The Church does not make a provision for Dominicans to celebrate the Tridentine form at the expense of the Dominican Rite. If the Dominican Rite is allowed by the major superior, it takes precedence. That’s real tradition. It’s not just a love for the Tridentine form.

If you visit three Benedictine abbeys, you will find that there is no such thing as a common monastic dirunal or common monastic missal. There is a monastic diurnal and monastic missal, but the abbots put them together. They vary from one Benedictine congregation to the next. Some are more ancient than others. You just have to do some visiting to find the Benedictine congregation that best meets your needs.

Maybe you could help me find those communities then.

If you’re looking at the mendicant life, I would encourage you to look at the Franciscans of the Immaculate.

 

[JReducation]

Maybe you could suggest provinces or communities that are line with Rome in that they do not abuse the liturgy, but celebrate the Ordinary Form with reverence.

Every province and every house is supposed to use the missal as it has been approved for them. There is no guarantee that there will never be someone who gets creative. The good news is that it’s not as common as people claim. You just have to visit.

Or maybe you know of a community of Franciscans that use the Franciscan form of the Tridentine Mass.

Currently, that’s a work in progress. I have no idea when that missal will be finished.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[OraLabora]

I would think that much more important than the form of the Mass that is celebrated is whether the postulant and the community are a good fit for each other. The liturgy is only a part of that. How important a part will depend on the importance of liturgy to the community (for Benedictines, very important).

The real attraction needs to be to the charism of the order. A good example was a young postulant recently turned away at a Benedictine abbey. The liturgy there is very reverent, in the OF but in Gregorian chant. The main reason for the postulant being there was the liturgy, not the charism; he was a young “traditionalist” and had great disdain for the liturgy elsewhere in the region. The community quickly discovered that and did not allow the postulant to continue. You have to remember that to take simple and solemn vows, the entire community gets to vote. Anybody that is there for reasons other than the community’s charism will likely be quickly found out and will be turned down.

Even though this abbey is crying for vocations, it concluded that the health of the community mattered more than a poorly discerned vocation.

 

[JReducation]

I would think that much more important than the form of the Mass that is celebrated is whether the postulant and the community are a good fit for each other. The liturgy is only a part of that. How important a part will depend on the importance of liturgy to the community (for Benedictines, very important).

The real attraction needs to be to the charism of the order. A good example was a young postulant recently turned away at a Benedictine abbey. The liturgy there is very reverent, in the OF but in Gregorian chant. The main reason for the postulant being there was the liturgy, not the charism; he was a young “traditionalist” and had great disdain for the liturgy elsewhere in the region. The community quickly discovered that and did not allow the postulant to continue. You have to remember that to take simple and solemn vows, the entire community gets to vote. Anybody that is there for reasons other than the community’s charism will likely be quickly found out and will be turned down.

Even though this abbey is crying for vocations, it concluded that the health of the community mattered more than a poorly discerned vocation.

This is very true. In our little community of Franciscans of Life. Even though we’ve just become an independent community in March of this year and we can use more men, the crux of the matter is whether or not the man is called to live the Gospel as St. Francis lived it, to be a contemplative, to live in brotherhood and to serve the voiceless. Whether we pray using the 1962 Missal or the current Roman - Franciscan missal is not important to us, because it was not important to Francis of Assisi. For him, what was important was brotherhood and simplicity in the liturgy. For that reason, he went to the pope and asked for a form of the mass that was simpler. He didn’t like the form that was in use in his diocese because it required more than book. His belief was that the mass was to represent the poverty of Christ on the cross. Therefore, it should be as austere as possible, including the number of books, cards and other objects that you use on the altar.

Through the centuries, the Franciscan family has made it our custom to keep liturgy as simple as possible. There are three masses that we celebrate with pomp and circumstance as they say in my home town: Christmas, Easter and the Solemnity of St. Francis.

It is rather interesting, because for Christmas and Passion Sunday, St. Francis introduced the Nativity play and the Passion play during the mass to be acted out during the Gospel. He had a special love for the Christmas creche and for the passion. He also introduced the Stations of the Cross on Good Friday. He’s the author of the prayer: “We adore you Oh Christ and we bless you, here and in all of your churches throughout the whole world, because by your holy cross you have redeemed the world.”

These are the qualities that we look for in a candidate. The question is, "Can he live the Christian life as Francis prescribed it, doing the work that we do and thinking with the Church. For Francis and for the other founders of religious communities, thinking with the Church was very important.

As you say, if the postulant entered a Benedictine community with disdain for the anything post-Vatican II, this is not thinking with the Church. St. Benedict would strongly disapprove. If the pope said to Benedict, “I want you to accompany the singing of the psalms with a banjo,” Benedict would grimace; but he would do it. His claim to fame in Catholic history has been obedience. The one thing that Benedictines value even above liturgy is obedience. A disobedient monk is not a monk, no matter how well he chants.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[FilsdelaBVM]

These institute were founded as Traditionalist communities. I’m not sure about the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer, because they’re religious, but the ICRSS and FSSP must be willing to celebrate both the EF and the OF.

+J.M.J.
That is not true. The priests of the FSSP are forbidden (and would never want to) say the Novus Ordo. This issue came up a while ago when a few FSSP priests in France wanted to say both the Traditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo. They were expelled from the FSSP (I will not give the names.)

To the original poster:
You are looking for a Traditional Mendicant order ?
You should look into the Capuchins of Morgon, France. They are associated with the Society of Saint Pius X, and obviously you will get nothing but pure, undefiled Catholic Tradition (the true spirit of St Francis) and the '62 Missal and Divine Office.

Here is a little reading for you:
angelusonline.org/index.phpsection=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=2465
Rev. Father Guardian
Convent Saint Francois
Morgon
F-69910 Villie-Morgon
France

In the Seraphic Father,
Un fils de la Bienheureuse Vierge Marie

 

[jwinch2]

The Eastern Dominican Province in the United States has made strong efforts towards bringing back the Dominican Rite of the Mass. They have had good numbers of vocations in recent years, which people seem to attribute to the need for preachers as well as their focus on tradition.

I received a newsletter from them a couple of weeks ago where they had some text from Pope Benedict telling them that he expected them to lead the charge in the new evangelization. His language was actually fairly strong and the provincial’s response was enthusiastic to say the least.

ordopraedicatorum.org/

 

[april32010]

+J.M.J.
That is not true. The priests of the FSSP are forbidden (and would never want to) say the Novus Ordo. This issue came up a while ago when a few FSSP priests in France wanted to say both the Traditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo. They were expelled from the FSSP (I will not give the names.)

To the original poster:
You are looking for a Traditional Mendicant order ?
You should look into the Capuchins of Morgon, France. They are associated with the Society of Saint Pius X, and obviously you will get nothing but pure, undefiled Catholic Tradition (the true spirit of St Francis) and the '62 Missal and Divine Office.

Here is a little reading for you:
angelusonline.org/index.phpsection=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=2465
Rev. Father Guardian
Convent Saint Francois
Morgon
F-69910 Villie-Morgon
France

In the Seraphic Father,
Un fils de la Bienheureuse Vierge Marie

the Church allows the Ordinary form,that means it
is pure and undefiled .and as for the highlighted text,this isn’t national inquirer .

 

[OldYoungGuy]

Sorry for my simple vocabulary, but what is a mendicant order?I have been to both these monasteries that are in “full communion” and while they may be allowed to celebrate the ordinary form, the fact is they only celebrate the Traditional Mass of both their orders.

carmelitemonks.org/

clearcreekmonks.org/

Maybe these aren’t mendicants then?

 

[april32010]

Sorry for my simple vocabulary, but what is a mendicant order?I have been to both these monasteries that are in “full communion” and while they may be allowed to celebrate the ordinary form, the fact is they only celebrate the Traditional Mass of both their orders.

carmelitemonks.org/

clearcreekmonks.org/

Maybe these aren’t mendicants then?

mendicant |ˈmendikənt|
adjective
given to begging.
• of or denoting one of the religious orders that originally relied solely on alms : a mendicant friar.
noun
a beggar.
• a member of a mendicant order.
DERIVATIVES
mendicancy |-kənsē| noun
ORIGIN late Middle English : from Latin mendicant- ‘begging,’ from the verb mendicare, from mendicus ‘beggar,’ from mendum ‘fault.’

 

[jwinch2]

Sorry for my simple vocabulary, but what is a mendicant order?I have been to both these monasteries that are in “full communion” and while they may be allowed to celebrate the ordinary form, the fact is they only celebrate the Traditional Mass of both their orders.

carmelitemonks.org/

clearcreekmonks.org/

Maybe these aren’t mendicants then?

catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=7876

No, the examples above are not mendicants. The first are obviously Carmelite while the second are Benedictine Monks who are bound to a particular community. The Monks of Clear Creek Abbey in Oklahoma, do use the EF of the Mass and the Divine Office exclusively but again, they are not mendicant friars.

Peace,

 

[OldYoungGuy]

Thanks, now that mendicant has been explained to me, I suppose those would not be. That being said I don’t believe there would be any problems with such an order offering the extraordinary form exclusively.

 

[jwinch2]

Thanks, now that mendicant has been explained to me, I suppose those would not be. That being said I don’t believe there would be any problems with such an order offering the extraordinary form exclusively.

As Brother JR has already explained, yes, there would be.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

+J.M.J.
That is not true. The priests of the FSSP are forbidden (and would never want to) say the Novus Ordo. This issue came up a while ago when a few FSSP priests in France wanted to say both the Traditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo. They were expelled from the FSSP (I will not give the names.)

You are mistaken.

A priest can not be forbidden from celebrating the norm which is the OF. Also there are many within the FSSP who do so yearly at the bishop’s chrism Mass within the diocese where they are working.

Without you proving proof of your claim that an FSSP priest was expelled for wanting to celebrate the OF there is no reason for us to believe you.

 

[april32010]

You are mistaken.

A priest can not be forbidden from celebrating the norm which is the OF. Also there are many within the FSSP who do so yearly at the bishop’s chrism Mass within the diocese where they are working.

Without you proving proof of your claim that an FSSP priest was expelled for wanting to celebrate the OF there is no reason for us to believe you.

thank you Friar David,i thought this was the case.

 

[JReducation]

catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=7876

No, the examples above are not mendicants. The first are obviously Carmelite while the second are Benedictine Monks who are bound to a particular community. The Monks of Clear Creek Abbey in Oklahoma, do use the EF of the Mass and the Divine Office exclusively but again, they are not mendicant friars.

Peace,

jwinch is correct. Monks are not mendicants. Mendicants a roamers. Monks make a vow of stability.

Thanks, now that mendicant has been explained to me, I suppose those would not be. That being said I don’t believe there would be any problems with such an order offering the extraordinary form exclusively.

No. Mendicant orders cannot adopt the EF as their ordinary form for reasons that I’ve explained above, the most important being that it would split the community. You cannot have a community divided over liturgy. To the mendicant, the life of prayer and fraternal life are inseparable. A mendicant is bound by vows to worship with his brothers. The friar who is a priest is bound to serve his brothers through his ministry. But he cannot impose on his brothers that which is out of the ordinary. The Tridentine form remains extraordinary. He would need the consent of the superior of the house to celebrate the EF. This is laid out very clear in SP. The Holy Father said that regular priests are governed by their proper law, meaning their constitutions and traditions.

You are mistaken.

A priest can not be forbidden from celebrating the norm which is the OF. Also there are many within the FSSP who do so yearly at the bishop’s chrism Mass within the diocese where they are working.

Without you proving proof of your claim that an FSSP priest was expelled for wanting to celebrate the OF there is no reason for us to believe you.

Friar David is correct. The constitutions of an institute cannot prohibit what is the ordinary right of any Catholic. I learned this when we were proposing our constitutions for the Franciscans of Life. The letter that we received from the archbishop’s office reminded us that we could not prohibit what the Church allows nor command what the Church already commands. The constitution is different from Church law. It can neither contradict the law nor override it.

What happened with the FSSP, as far as I know, is that there was a superior who wanted to impose the OF on the society, meaning that every member of the society had to celebrate both forms. That would be contrary to Proper Law. If their constitutions does not say that they must celebrate the OF, it cannot be imposed on them.

Not imposing it on them is different from barring them from celebrating it. For example, our constitution says that the friars are never to use Gregorian Chant. Therefore, no superior can impose it. It also says that the friars who are priests may celebrate the EF with the permission of the superior. It does not say that they must celebrate the EF. As you can see, wording is very important.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[OldYoungGuy]

No. Mendicant orders cannot adopt the EF as their ordinary form for reasons that I’ve explained above, the most important being that it would split the community. You cannot have a community divided over liturgy. To the mendicant, the life of prayer and fraternal life are inseparable. A mendicant is bound by vows to worship with his brothers. The friar who is a priest is bound to serve his brothers through his ministry. But he cannot impose on his brothers that which is out of the ordinary. The Tridentine form remains extraordinary. He would need the consent of the superior of the house to celebrate the EF. This is laid out very clear in SP. The Holy Father said that regular priests are governed by their proper law, meaning their constitutions and traditions.

But what if a community was started in which it was agreed they would use the EF exclusive? It seems there are more communities adopting the EF as their norm from their beginnings, is there something that makes this impossible for mendicants?

Say hypothetically the OP and I get together and form a community of beggars and we decide to use the EF. Then there would be no disunity because every joining the community would have the understanding of our liturgical norms.