Traditional Roman Catholic Universities

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With all the liberalism in many supposedly Catholic universities, are there any left that are traditional? I mean sacraments in 1962 form, Tridentine Masses, faithful to the Magisterium? I don’t mean the FSSPX one either. I’ve been looking for ages and just can’t seem to find one! :eek:

Thank you

Pax Vobiscum
 
With all the liberalism in many supposedly Catholic universities, are there any left that are traditional? I mean sacraments in 1962 form, Tridentine Masses, faithful to the Magisterium? I don’t mean the FSSPX one either. I’ve been looking for ages and just can’t seem to find one! :eek:
The Cardinal Newman Society in 2007 published an excellent book called “The Newman Guide to Choosing a Catholic College,” which can be purchased through their web site for under $15. We could all do the world a favor by buying extra copies and giving them out as presents to parents of high school juniors. The authors researched various facets of life (starting with loyalty to the Magisterium, and including campus life) at the 220 or so colleges and universities in the United States that claim to be Catholic, and found 21 of them worthy of the name. This book is the result of their efforts, and includes lengthy write-ups of each school. Included are such as Christendom, Stuebenville, Thomas Aquinas, Thomas More, Belmont Abbey, Ave Maria, etc. (Sadly, but not surprisingly, no Jesuit schools make the cut, nor does Notre Dame.) Here is the web link: catholichighered.org/TheNewmanGuide/tabid/356/Default.aspx

Highly recommended.

By the way, there is no “FSSPX”, but that must have been a typo on your part. There is the FSSP, which is thoroughly within the heart of the church and probably cringes at typos like that, and there is the SSPX, which of course is not.

God bless you.
 
The Cardinal Newman Society in 2007 published an excellent book called “The Newman Guide to Choosing a Catholic College,” which can be purchased through their web site for under $15. We could all do the world a favor by buying extra copies and giving them out as presents to parents of high school juniors. The authors researched various facets of life (starting with loyalty to the Magisterium, and including campus life) at the 220 or so colleges and universities in the United States that claim to be Catholic, and found 21 of them worthy of the name. This book is the result of their efforts, and includes lengthy write-ups of each school. Included are such as Christendom, Stuebenville, Thomas Aquinas, Thomas More, Belmont Abbey, Ave Maria, etc. (Sadly, but not surprisingly, no Jesuit schools make the cut, nor does Notre Dame.) Here is the web link: catholichighered.org/TheNewmanGuide/tabid/356/Default.aspx

Highly recommended.

By the way, there is no “FSSPX”, but that must have been a typo on your part. There is the FSSP, which is thoroughly within the heart of the church and probably cringes at typos like that, and there is the SSPX, which of course is not.

God bless you.
Sorry to be pedantic, but there is an FSSPX. SSPX is an abbreviation of FSSPX - Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Pii X.

Back on topic. I have heard good things about St Thomas Aquinas College. Some parishioners in my Latin Mass apostalate have gone there.
 
By the way, there is no “FSSPX”, but that must have been a typo on your part. There is the FSSP, which is thoroughly within the heart of the church and probably cringes at typos like that, and there is the SSPX, which of course is not.

God bless you.
I’m not against anyone here but I believe it is appropriate to respect other Catholic organizations, in fact, the Society of Saint Pius X is in communication with the Holy See for a possible reunification of their society to the Roman Catholic Church.

Check this out: soutienabenoitxvi.org/index.php?lang=uk and newliturgicalmovement.org/

Pax Christi!
 
Does anyone here know something of the quality of St Mary’s Seminary and University in Baltimore?

Or closer to my home, The Seminary attached to Mount Angel Abbey in western Oregon?

Thanks
 
Brian Albin,

I don’t know about St Mary’s Seminary and University but I’ve heard good things about the Seminary attached to Mount Angel Abbey.
 
Included are such as Christendom, Stuebenville, Thomas Aquinas, Thomas More, Belmont Abbey, Ave Maria, etc.
Of those names, at least Steubenville and Ave Maria really don’t have much claim to be traditional. Both held out against the traditional Latin Mass for as long as they possibly could.

I would love to send my children to Thomas Aquinas College, but we’ll see what God wills. Also, I’ve got my eye on the new Wyoming Catholic College, especially for my horse fanatic daughter.
 
Only one Canadian post-secondary school made the Newman Guide; Our Lady Seat of Wisdom Academy is not yet accredited but they are working towards it.

If you want a truly Catholic Culture, then OLSWA and, indeed, Barry’s Bay, is worth it. The only difficulty is that once you leave that school behind in order to finish your education elsewhere (a few American schools, and one Canadian, have accepted transfers from OLSWA) you can expect to experience a culture shock.

I say that because in Barry’s Bay, a town of approximately 1300 people, there are two thriving Catholic parishes, an Adoration Chapel, two to four times monthly the Tridentine Mass is celebrated by visiting priests and the local priest is learning how to celebrate the Tridentine Mass out of his own initiative, once monthly there is Praise and Adoration where a combination of the most beautiful modern praise and worship songs and the essential classics such as Tantum Ergo are used, there is a local pro-life group, Madonna House is within a thirty minute drive away (the school chaplin is a Madonna House priest)… the Liturgy of the Hours is prayed in community every morning after Mass.

The school itself… well, expect to run into your professors at daily Mass. Also, the professors all annually renew an oath to remain faithful to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. If there is a school trip that involves driving, bring your rosary - you will likely pray a rosary one way, and a chaplet the other, as well as a prayer for the road to start out your drive each way. Before and after every class, be ready to pray. Be ready to go to the Mass of Chrism in Pembroke, because it’s close and the school likes to take you there. The students and teachers will join together in a walking pilgrimage which will take most of your morning and allow you to pray likely a full rosary.

As for the classes themselves, the course names of the first year program speak for themselve: Introduction to Scripture, Introduction to Philosophy, Christian Doctrine, Logic, Ethics, Western Civilization, Latin, Freshman Writing, and Chorus. Expect to read St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Plato, Aristotle, Church encyclicals, etc.

I know I sound like an advertisment for OLSWA, and I’m sorry for that, but it was the best year of my life. What I learned there in the 07/08 school year has saved my faith this year so many times, when I came accross confrontations from non-Catholics and misinformation from Catholics that would have driven me away from the Church had I not been armed with Truth.

Wherever you decide to go, I hope you gain as wonderful an experience. I’ll be praying for you… 🙂
 
Of those names, at least Steubenville and Ave Maria really don’t have much claim to be traditional. Both held out against the traditional Latin Mass for as long as they possibly could.

I would love to send my children to Thomas Aquinas College, but we’ll see what God wills. Also, I’ve got my eye on the new Wyoming Catholic College, especially for my horse fanatic daughter.
You should encourage your children to attend the best four year university that they can, rather than focus on the narrow “conservative Catholic college” category. I went to a top 25 university that I think would cause many faithful Catholics to shudder. Often I hear, “YOU, went THERE?” YES, and I loved it too. One of the best things that ever happened to me and my relationship with God and the Church.

The truth is, I had a better traditional/orthodox Catholic community at my prominent secular school than I do NOW as a graduate student at Franciscan University. We simply all found one another and organized in the form of a Catholic spiritual/charity group based on the Society of St. Vincent de Paul (of course it was God who brought us together). We weren’t a huge group but a startling number of us became religious or priests in traditional orders. They all wear habits and cassocks, we all mostly prefer the Latin Mass, etc, and most importantly, we all try to live our faith to the fullest (with God’s grace).

The idea that you HAVE to go to some fringe college that won’t help you get a good job or get into competitive graduate schools is a gross error that really needs to be questioned thoroughly. For the sake of your children, I would encourage them to work hard, become the best students that they can be, set high goals, and accomplish the most that they can…FOR THE LORD. The Church needs faithful Catholics at our top universities, it already has far too many hiding out in insulated and academically backward enclaves.

I should also note that I CAME to the Faith while I studied at secular universities in college. The truth is the truth, and if you teach your kids to reason well and think critically then the truth will remain for them just as cogent as ever. Also, I did not go to Notre Dame in case you were guessing.
 
With all the liberalism in many supposedly Catholic universities, are there any left that are traditional? I mean sacraments in 1962 form, Tridentine Masses, faithful to the Magisterium? I don’t mean the FSSPX one either. I’ve been looking for ages and just can’t seem to find one! :eek:

Thank you

Pax Vobiscum
I think I disagree with your premise. I don’t consider places that celebrate sacraments in the 1962 form and Tridentine Masses as “traditional.” I consider all Catholic Churches as “traditional” because the Catholic Church is steeped in and bound by Tradition.

I assume all Catholic institutions are faithful to the Magisterium, otherwise they would not be permitted to retain the identifier of “Catholic.”

So, given my assumptions which probably don’t match yours, any recommendations I have would likely not be terribly helpful as you seem to be looking for a more exclusive and restrictive experience than I’m familiar with.

Peace
 
If you want a truly Catholic Culture, then OLSWA and, indeed, Barry’s Bay
Barry’s bay has a college?! My memories of barry’s bay are nothing but scenic hills and lakes, mosquitos and Polaks.

I’m sure John Paul II, being the outdoorsmen and Polak he was, would have loved it.

Too bad they aren’t a full unviersity, else I’d be there tomorrow. (whick makes me realize that I’ve never been to Barry’s bay during winter - that’s not exactly a pleasent thought).
 
What I learned there in the 07/08 school year has saved my faith this year so many times, when I came accross confrontations from non-Catholics and misinformation from Catholics that would have driven me away from the Church had I not been armed with Truth.
What about transferring from a secular school in order for your final years to be at this school? Being a traditionalist, Polish-Canadian, and loving the outdoors, I think this school has a lot to offer.
 
I assume all Catholic institutions are faithful to the Magisterium, otherwise they would not be permitted to retain the identifier of “Catholic.”
LifeSiteNews.com reported on June 2, 2005:

A special research report from the Cardinal Newman Society (CNS) published in the June issue of Crisis magazine documents the activities of 15 professors at leading Catholic universities who have publicly rejected Vatican teaching on euthanasia and assisted suicide. Several actively paved the way to Terri Schiavo’s death by starvation, and others serve on the boards of national pro-assisted suicide lobbies.

Professors identified in the report include:

· Charles Baron of the Boston College Law School, who has testified before Congress and Britain’s House of Lords on legalizing physician-assisted suicide and serves on the board of directors of the Death With Dignity National Center.

· Carol Bayley, adjunct professor of nursing at the University of San Francisco and vice president of a large Catholic healthcare system in the western U.S., who signed a brief in the Schiavo case rejecting Vatican teaching soon after announcing that Catholic Healthcare West would “take the Pope’s statements very seriously.”

· Tom Beauchamp, senior research scholar at Georgetown University’s Kennedy Institute of Ethics, who serves on the board of directors of the Compassion in Dying Federation.

· Maxwell Gregg Bloche of the Georgetown University Law Center, who signed an amicus court brief arguing that doctors’ actions protected by Oregon’s assisted-suicide law constitute “sound and ethical medical practices.”

· Robert Free of the Seattle University Law School, who has signed court briefs arguing for assisted suicide and has served as an advisor to Compassion in Dying of Washington.

· Howard Freed of the Georgetown University School of Medicine, who signed a court brief arguing that former U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft’s attempts to interfere with Oregon’s assisted-suicide law diminished “physicians’ ability to care for terminally ill patients nationwide.”

· Lawrence Gostin of the Georgetown University Law Center, who has served as the health law and ethics editor of the influential Journal of the American Medical Association and on the executive committee of the ACLU board of directors, has signed court briefs supporting legalized assisted suicide in Oregon.

· Milton Heifetz of the Boston College Law School, whose book The Right to Die advocates legalizing assisted suicide and even entertains the possibility of euthanasia for severely retarded people and newborns with severe medical problems.

· Marquette University theology professor and former Jesuit priest Daniel Maguire, who has accused Pope John Paul II and Vatican officials of a “fetishism of life signs,” using any sign of life as a justification for delaying death.

· Rev. Richard McBrien, theology professor at the University of Notre Dame, who proclaimed to Bill O’Reilly of FOX News that the removal of Schiavo’s feeding tube was “the removal of an extraordinary means of sustaining life,” publicly contradicting Vatican teaching and presenting his own view as the Church’s teaching.

· Curtis Naser, philosophy professor at Fairfield University, who is touted by Fairfield as an expert in biomedical ethics and “end of life decisions” despite his opposition to New York and Washington state bans on physician-assisted suicide.

· Attorney Lawrence Nelson, who despite his unsuccessful court battle in California to euthanize a disabled but not vegetative man and his writings arguing for embryonic stem cell research, is a scholar at Santa Clara University’s Markkula Center for Applied Ethics and even has received a grant from the university “to explore the place of philosophical ethics in Jesuit higher education and mission.”

· Rev. Kevin O’Rourke, O.P., ethics professor at the Loyola University of Chicago Medical School, who said it was “blasphemy” to keep people like Schiavo alive “as if you were doing them a favor.” O’Rourke drafted a statement critical of Vatican teaching on euthanasia that was circulated at a Catholic Health Association meeting in March.

· Rev. John Paris, S.J., bioethics and theology professor at Boston College, who ridiculed Terri Schiavo’s family for their ties to “the radical, antiabortion, right-to-life Christian right” and dismissed the Pope’s statements on feeding tubes as “mischief-making at the Vatican.”

· James Walter, chairman of the Bioethics Institute at Loyola Marymount University, did not personally evaluate Schiavo yet insisted that “any chance of self-awareness is not going to happen” and expressed certainty that Schiavo would not suffer from the removal of her feeding tube.
 
You should encourage your children to attend the best four year university that they can, rather than focus on the narrow “conservative Catholic college” category. I went to a top 25 university that I think would cause many faithful Catholics to shudder. Often I hear, “YOU, went THERE?” YES, and I loved it too. One of the best things that ever happened to me and my relationship with God and the Church.

The truth is, I had a better traditional/orthodox Catholic community at my prominent secular school than I do NOW as a graduate student at Franciscan University. We simply all found one another and organized in the form of a Catholic spiritual/charity group based on the Society of St. Vincent de Paul (of course it was God who brought us together). We weren’t a huge group but a startling number of us became religious or priests in traditional orders. They all wear habits and cassocks, we all mostly prefer the Latin Mass, etc, and most importantly, we all try to live our faith to the fullest (with God’s grace).

The idea that you HAVE to go to some fringe college that won’t help you get a good job or get into competitive graduate schools is a gross error that really needs to be questioned thoroughly. For the sake of your children, I would encourage them to work hard, become the best students that they can be, set high goals, and accomplish the most that they can…FOR THE LORD. The Church needs faithful Catholics at our top universities, it already has far too many hiding out in insulated and academically backward enclaves.

I should also note that I CAME to the Faith while I studied at secular universities in college. The truth is the truth, and if you teach your kids to reason well and think critically then the truth will remain for them just as cogent as ever. Also, I did not go to Notre Dame in case you were guessing.
Where have you come to this belief that you MUST attend a nationally ranked university to get a job? This is simply not true and is not sending a good message to college applicants. If you can’t get a job, then the college would not exist. I know many many people who have gone to what you label as “fringe” colleges and who now enjoy well paying jobs. The same can’t be said for two of my family’s friends who graduated from Dartmouth.

There is nothing wrong with small conservative Catholic colleges at all. National rankings mean absolutely nothing. Schools across the country are pulling out of the national rankings.

Anyways, Aquinas in California is supposed to be fantastic. I would have applied there if it were not so far away…
 
I have to ask you what you mean by “getting a job” or what kind of jobs you have in mind? Plus, I have SO much more than just employment in mind when I talk about the value of going to a good university. I mean the whole experience. I have lived BOTH, and let me tell you, the small fringe Catholic college does not compare well at all. Not even close.
I had better professors, better classes, better classmates, a better learning environment, better resources, better amenities, and yes…believe it or not…just as good if not better Catholic community life.

It is true that you can get “a job” (whatever you mean by that) after coming out of Franciscan. But I am not sure if you can get a very good job. If you want to admit anecdotal evidence then in my experience, people I know, don’t do very well financially coming out the MA theology program…of course this makes sense though.

There is a difference between getting a purely academic/non-practical (philosophy, theology, English, physics, etc) degree and getting a more practical degree (nursing, engineering, education, business). Landing “a job” with a practical degree, even from Franciscan, is not too hard. Landing one with competitive pay in a better place to live (than the Ohio valley) is an entirely different story. You bet you britches that a student with a BA in business from Harvard is going to have a MUCH “easier” time finding GOOD internships working at/for top companies right out of undergrad than almost anyone coming from a school like Franciscan or Ave Maria. In fact, its so competitive to get such an internship that I doubt someone with a non-competitive BA from a fringe Catholic school will do very well at all.

Academic degrees are a little different to work with. It is still possible to get internships, etc, but the truth is most people who major in academic degrees in college (most astute people anyway) do so because they intend to teach or research in their chosen field someday. That means that getting a BA/BS is not sufficient. Many people who get such degrees without thinking about what they are going to do afterward are in the situation that they are in because of bad planning. They didn’t realize that they were making it more difficult to enter the work force (if that is all they intended). Thus, yes, simply HAVING A DEGREE does not equal guaranteed jobs.

But to deny the advantages, as far as the job market is concerned, of going to a top university is naive and/or wishful thinking. I went to UCLA, there I said it, and the opportunities that I had post graduation were STAGGERING. There were many people seeking to recruit our graduates for work at major corps, government agencies, NGO’s, etc, etc. They were literally coming to us. Plus the job placement resources that we had were incredible. They would help you with the entire process: from filling out a resume to practicing interviewing skills! It was amazing! Nothing even close can be said of what they do at Franciscan, and few if any of our students get “recruited” in this way. When I graduated, most of my friends either went on to top graduate schools or professional schools, places like USC, Notre Dame, Univ. Wisconsin, etc. These are my Catholic friends by the way. I have yet to even directly hear of anyone going on to schools like this from Franciscan.

There are a lot of things “wrong” or I should say “worse” with the colleges like Franciscan. People are seriously selling themselves short and they don’t even know it, they are missing out on so many important opportunities and experiences and it is a shame. I should point out that people who narrowly defend schools like Franciscan (especially people who cannot claim to have actually experienced both a good school and a school like and Franciscan) are themselves actually operating under a false assumption. Namely, that you HAVE to go to Franciscan to be a good Catholic or to experience good/faithful Catholic community life. This is just NOT true. There are many very good and even holy people who will NEVER set foot on Franciscan’s soil.

“If you can’t get a job, then the college would not exist.”…I don’t know what you mean here.

“National rankings mean absolutely nothing. Schools across the country are pulling out of the national rankings.”…This is absurd. Where on earth did you hear of any school pulling out of the rankings? What does that mean? They rank you, you don’t rank yourself…plus the only reason I could see schools refusing to cooperate with this is because they fared very badly. Schools with terribly rankings, for instance, don’t advertise things like this: “ranked at the top 25 of the fourth tier in the 2009 US News and World Report!” No, instead they give slanted information in order to basically lie about being prestigious…like Franciscan University does when they claim that “we are ranked among the best schools in our [terrible] region!”. Which, of course, doesn’t mean diddly. But you won’t believe how many people are actually fooled by that less than honest claim! (or check out the website…It claims, as of right now, that Franciscan is a “top ten school”!!! How? Because some website ranked them among the then “most conservative colleges”! WOW.

And as for rankings not mattering? That is definitely absurd. But I have already said enough about that. They matter, big time.

A school being “very far away” is a terrible reason not to attend said school. If a school is good enough, has what you need and/or looking for then you simply don’t let things like distance get in the way. I, unfortunately, moved all the way across the country to live the Catholic dream at Franciscan. You have to go for it when the opportunity presents itself. I truly hope that you open your mind and aim as high as you can for your education. If anything, at least consider a good state school. You’ll save a ton and get a better education.
 
I have to ask you what you mean by “getting a job” or what kind of jobs you have in mind? Plus, I have SO much more than just employment in mind when I talk about the value of going to a good university. I mean the whole experience. I have lived BOTH, and let me tell you, the small fringe Catholic college does not compare well at all. Not even close. I had better professors, better classes, better classmates, a better learning environment, better resources, better amenities, and yes…believe it or not…just as good if not better Catholic community life.
I’m reading your (name removed by moderator)ut with interest. My oldest is just about to turn 14, so college is starting to become a topic of discussion around our house. He is interested in a scientific field (perhaps chemistry), so the fit with the existing orthodox Catholic colleges isn’t very good.

That being said, you do present only a single data point. There are loads of Catholics who have gone to secular universities and lost their faith. You say that the professors were better and I believe you. But again, there are secular institutions in which many of the professors, especially in certain departments, are propagandists rather than educators. In addition, I can’t help but think that there are many where there simply isn’t enough of a traditional Catholic presence in order to create the necessary sub-culture that you’re describing. And there can be other significant hurdles, such as those schools which mandate a one or two year stay in the dorms for the new student. Forget it, that’s just not an option for any of my kids. So I wonder if you’re not generalizing too broadly from your personal experience?
 
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