Traditionalist are the ones everyone should be afraid of...Yeah Right

  • Thread starter Thread starter hudson
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
H

hudson

Guest
I here so much on these forums about how traditionalist are bad for the Church and heading in the wrong direction. Look where liberal/progressive Catholics are leading us.
freep.com/article/20110609/NEWS05/106090540/Liberal-Catholics-pushing-changes-church-gather-Detroit?odyssey=nav|head

From USA-Today:
“The council is pushing for lay people to have a greater say in church decision-making, which is often top-down. And many are calling for women, gay and non-celibate priests, along with more of an emphasis on social justice issues rather than abortion or anti-birth control efforts. On Sunday, it plans to endorse a 10-point list of rights and responsibilities for Catholics.”
 
From the sound of things, it seems to me that traditionalists are good for the Church.
 
hudson said:
I here so much on these forums about how traditionalist are bad for the Church and heading in the wrong direction. Look where liberal/progressive Catholics are leading us.
freep.com/article/20110609/NEWS05/106090540/Liberal-Catholics-pushing-changes-church-gather-Detroit?odyssey=nav|head

From USA-Today:
“The council is pushing for lay people to have a greater say in church decision-making, which is often top-down. And many are calling for women, gay and non-celibate priests, along with more of an emphasis on social justice issues rather than abortion or anti-birth control efforts. On Sunday, it plans to endorse a 10-point list of rights and responsibilities for Catholics.”
Click to expand...
I think it’s less that people have a problem with traditionalists and more that people have an issue when traditionalists take things to far.
 
sigh…if it was wrong then…it’s still wrong now. truth doesn’t change

I don’t understand why people have so much trouble understanding this. truth isn’t up for a vote.
 
At_Trent said:
The ACC group should be excommunicated.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t be shocked if some of them already are latae sententiae.

And apparently any priest caught at it will be canonically shot (ie; defrocked).
 
This will come to nothing:rolleyes: Why don’t people see this:confused: The Church ain’t gonna change;) And that is something for which I am profoundly thankful:signofcross:
 
In a way, the danger of sedevacantism in traditionalism is a corollary to disobedience in liberalism. Both “sides” consist of the same sinners, and we cannot honestly divide the Body. Our friend de Montaigne said “The souls of emperors and cobblers are cast in the same mold; the same reason that makes us wrangle with a neighbor creates a war between princes”! The same sinful, fallen human urge makes us deny the Pope or maliciously slander liberal bishops causes them to attack the fetus or promote contraception. Both are against the will of Christ our Lord, so let’s not get indignant.

Traditionalists aren’t the ones everyone should be a afraid of. Even liberals aren’t the ones everyone should be afraid of; rather, everyone should be deeply afraid of themselves and Satan. :mad:
 
GloriousOrder said:
Traditionalists aren’t the ones everyone should be a afraid of. Even liberals aren’t the ones everyone should be afraid of; rather, everyone should be deeply afraid of themselves and Satan. :mad:
Click to expand...
Good point:thumbsup:
 
Who said anything about sedevacantism. Traditionalist doesn’t mean sedevacantist.

The funny thing is that the national news media picks this up and tries to push this as a big struggle in the Catholic Religion. I bet 2000 traditional Catholics pushing to have more reverence in Mass would be no where near the national news media.
 
GloriousOrder said:
In a way, the danger of sedevacantism in traditionalism is a corollary to disobedience in liberalism. Both “sides” consist of the same sinners, and we cannot honestly divide the Body. Our friend de Montaigne said “The souls of emperors and cobblers are cast in the same mold; the same reason that makes us wrangle with a neighbor creates a war between princes”! The same sinful, fallen human urge makes us deny the Pope or maliciously slander liberal bishops causes them to attack the fetus or promote contraception. Both are against the will of Christ our Lord, so let’s not get indignant.

Traditionalists aren’t the ones everyone should be a afraid of. Even liberals aren’t the ones everyone should be afraid of; rather, everyone should be deeply afraid of themselves and Satan. :mad:
Click to expand...
I think it would be a safe bet to say that without traditionalist, we would have to worry even more about ourselves and Satan. the traditionalist should take the presence of the liberals as a way to make sure they stay on their toes as Catholics. We have been around for 2,000 years we shouldn’t let a misguided sense of truth sway us from our course.
 
I have always thought liberalism is more of a threat than traditionalism. If traditionalism is a threat, then it seems that the Church was under a greater threat before Vatican II than it is now. Perhaps the term “traditionalist” is misunderstood as sedevacantist or sedevacantist leaning - but for me it simply means that I hold the same faith as that which was traditionally held. I read from the same theology manuals that were traditionally used in the past and I attend the same Mass which was tradtionally said in the past. I pose no danger to anyone, except the liberal who feels people of the same mind as myself stand in the way of “progress”. Well, I have seen where this progress has progressed to and where it is heading, and I think I will stay put and watch it from a distance.
 
hudson said:
Who said anything about sedevacantism. Traditionalist doesn’t mean sedevacantist.

The funny thing is that the national news media picks this up and tries to push this as a big struggle in the Catholic Religion. I bet 2000 traditional Catholics pushing to have more reverence in Mass would be no where near the national news media.
Click to expand...
This is quite so. 🙂 I’m just saying that traditionalist can tend toward sedevacantism in the same way that liberalism can tend toward total disobedience. Just making a dichotomous point! 😛
ndeparis88 said:
I think it would be a safe bet to say that without traditionalist, we would have to worry even more about ourselves and Satan. the traditionalist should take the presence of the liberals as a way to make sure they stay on their toes as Catholics. We have been around for 2,000 years we shouldn’t let a misguided sense of truth sway us from our course.
Click to expand...
The “we have been around for 2000 years” bit is precisely the problem. “Traditionalists” during the 1070’s didn’t like the Gregorian Reform at all, but it proved to be a boom in the 1100’s and 1200’s. Theological “conservatives”, as it were, thought St. Thomas Aquinas was a total lunatic for introducing Averrhoes-associated Aristotle into Philosophy, and they said neo-Platonism was the only way; now, can anyone dispute the genius and influence of St. Thomas decision? Our holy religion evolves very slowly over time: from the “acorn” of Peter to the “tree” of the Papacy ;). Let’s not get too angry over people who think change is the norm, because we are just as easily misguided into thinking that stoical hatred of all change is the norm.
Iotaunum said:
I have always thought liberalism is more of a threat than traditionalism. If traditionalism is a threat, then it seems that the Church was under a greater threat before Vatican II than it is now. …]
Click to expand...
Well 🙂 I’m just wondering whether traditionalism isn’t somewhat superficial these days, at least among some circles. We insist on the use of the cassock, but in the 1850’s it was considered a dangerous French invention for a priest to wear a cassock outside the Liturgy. They had distinctive dress before that, to be sure, but even the clerical suit was invented in the 1870’s or so - and that’s originally Anglican! :eek: I’m just saying that we take, borrow, mold, and remake things across time for all generations, from all cultures and human movements. If traditionalism is a threat, it is because traditionalists (like myself 😊) associate themselves with a stoic past that might not even have existed at all except by retroactive imagination on our part; likewise, if liberalism is a threat, it is because liberals associate themselves and their believes with a utopian future with no connection to the past. 😦

Though we must be vigilant, we must always remember the words of our Lord Jesus Christ: “What is that to thee? Follow thou me!”
 
GloriousOrder said:
In a way, the danger of sedevacantism in traditionalism is a corollary to disobedience in liberalism. Both “sides” consist of the same sinners, and we cannot honestly divide the Body. Our friend de Montaigne said “The souls of emperors and cobblers are cast in the same mold; the same reason that makes us wrangle with a neighbor creates a war between princes”! The same sinful, fallen human urge makes us deny the Pope or maliciously slander liberal bishops causes them to attack the fetus or promote contraception. Both are against the will of Christ our Lord, so let’s not get indignant.

Traditionalists aren’t the ones everyone should be a afraid of. Even liberals aren’t the ones everyone should be afraid of; rather, everyone should be deeply afraid of themselves and Satan. :mad:
Click to expand...
If there was a rating system, I’d be giving you 12 internets for this. Charismatic, traditionalist, it doesn’t matter. What you posted is the Truth, and is the real threat.
 
GloriousOrder said:
Well 🙂 I’m just wondering whether traditionalism isn’t somewhat superficial these days, at least among some circles. We insist on the use of the cassock, but in the 1850’s it was considered a dangerous French invention for a priest to wear a cassock outside the Liturgy. They had distinctive dress before that, to be sure, but even the clerical suit was invented in the 1870’s or so - and that’s originally Anglican! :eek: I’m just saying that we take, borrow, mold, and remake things across time for all generations, from all cultures and human movements. If traditionalism is a threat, it is because traditionalists (like myself 😊) associate themselves with a stoic past that might not even have existed at all except by retroactive imagination on our part; likewise, if liberalism is a threat, it is because liberals associate themselves and their believes with a utopian future with no connection to the past. 😦

Though we must be vigilant, we must always remember the words of our Lord Jesus Christ: “What is that to thee? Follow thou me!”
Click to expand...
Todays Progressive Liberals are out of control. Lets hope in 500 years someone like yourself isn’t saying remember the days when women weren’t Priest, Gays, Lesbians, Transgenders weren’t Priest, abortion on demand wasn’t normal, all forms of birth control weren’t normal. That is where todays forward movers want to take the Church. Look what they have done in parts of the Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian churches and tell me its not possible. They have the media and governments on their side and that makes them extremely powerful. They are forcing Catholic Charities to let gays adopt from them or shut down. So to say traditional conservatives are the ones going to harm the Church is a joke in my opinion.
 
hudson said:
Todays Progressive Liberals are out of control. Lets hope in 500 years someone like yourself isn’t saying remember the days when women weren’t Priest, Gays, Lesbians, Transgenders weren’t Priest, abortion on demand wasn’t normal, all forms of birth control weren’t normal. That is where todays forward movers want to take the Church. Look what they have done in parts of the Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian churches and tell me its not possible. They have the media and governments on their side and that makes them extremely powerful. They are forcing Catholic Charities to let gays adopt from them or shut down. So to say traditional conservatives are the ones going to harm the Church is a joke in my opinion.
Click to expand...
  • Invalid confessions.
  • Illicit Masses.
  • Harming the unity of the Church.
  • Schismatic mentality.
What do all of these have in common? They come from disobedience, which comes from both extremes.
 
A quibble, perhaps, but:

It isn’t a question of traditionalism vs. whatever other label one might wish to use. This is a simple matter of orthodoxy vs. heterodoxy, or, more baldly, orthodoxy vs. abject heresy. The Church is infallible in matters of faith and morals and Her teachings immutable. Her disciplines enjoy at least an negative infallibility, in that there is nothing that the Church can propose to the faithful that will lead them into impiety, but even mutable disciplines are to be obeyed and those who don’t are guilty of the sin of disobedience.

I don’t know why these people don’t just become Episcopalians. They can believe whatever lunatic idea they want and still dress up in vestments and have smells and bells. The Episcopal Church is hemoraging, loosing members every day. I’m sure they’d be welcome.
 
The liberals are the greater threat. While Traditionalists want to return the Church to what it once was, liberals want to turn the Church into something heretical.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top