Traditionalist criteria for Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans …

[Peter_J]

For those who are Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran, etc, what would qualify someone as “traditionalist”?

Needless to say (or is it?) I’m not looking for some kind of absolute black-and-white definition. Just any sort of helpful criteria. By way of illustration, among Catholics answers to the same question would depend greatly upon whom you ask; but there would be some common agreement, e.g. a Catholic would generally not be considered “traditionalist” if he/she was not at least somewhat negative toward the state of the liturgy since the Second Vatican Council. (I say “at least” because often it would be a matter of strong objections or even flat-out rejection.)

 

[steido01]

“Traditionalist” is almost always synonymous with “high liturgical.” Except, of course, when it’s not.

 

[theropod]

“Traditionalist” is almost always synonymous with “high liturgical.” Except, of course, when it’s not.

And then there’s the Anglicans.

 

[GKC]

And then there’s the Anglicans.

Complicated.

 

[Peter_J]

Oh, I should add that Catholics are welcome to answer as well – I put “Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans …” in the title just because we have a whole forum about Catholic traditionalism, so I imagine that’s less likely to be commented on here.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

Oh, I should add that Catholics are welcome to answer as well – I put “Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans …” in the title just because we have a whole forum about Catholic traditionalism, so I imagine that’s less likely to be commented on here.

hmm…traditionalist Catholics tend to more leery of ecumenism and are very strict with doctrine. I don’t think, however, preference for the TLM is always a characteristic of the traditionalist Catholic. It’s neither a necessary or sufficient condition for being a “traditionalist”. That’s a very simple characterization of a trad catholic. Feel free to add.

 

[commenter]

Oh, I should add that Catholics are welcome to answer as well – I put “Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans …” in the title just because we have a whole forum about Catholic traditionalism, so I imagine that’s less likely to be commented on here.

Catholics don’t hesitate to comment for or against “traditionalism” whether it’s here, or on CAF’s Gardening Forum, the Auto Mechanics Forum, etc, etc

 

[Reuben_J]

Traditional Catholics - attending Latin Mass, Receive on the tongue, despise Charismatic Catholics.

 

[Origen52]

Traditional Catholics - attending Latin Mass, Receive on the tongue, despise Charismatic Catholics.

Despise is a very unchristian word, disagree might be better.

 

[Reuben_J]

Despise is a very unchristian word, disagree might be better.

I agree that it is very unchristian. I find it hard to understand why people can be so unchristian especially when these same people seem to be very religious. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other, but when it is despising, you think there is persecution even among ourselves in the Catholic Church.

And yes, there are Catholics who despise the charismatic (Catholics) with a passion. I wish I didn’t bring this up, but it did happen. Sure not all, but the few that did, was enough to give you an experience which you want to forget.

edit: and I am not just referring to the laity. Maybe it should not be told here …

 

[Stilldreamn]

“Traditionalist” is almost always synonymous with “high liturgical.” Except, of course, when it’s not.

You know you’re a trad Lutheran when:

• You have a spare 1941 TLH tucked away in case your current one wears out. (guilty!)
• You have the “page 5” and “page 15” services completely memorized and can hum all the chants.

 

[Peter_J]

Needless to say (or is it?) I’m not looking for some kind of absolute black-and-white definition. Just any sort of helpful criteria. By way of illustration, among Catholics answers to the same question would depend greatly upon whom you ask; but there would be some common agreement, e.g. a Catholic would generally not be considered “traditionalist” if he/she was not at least somewhat negative toward the state of the liturgy since the Second Vatican Council. (I say “at least” because often it would be a matter of strong objections or even flat-out rejection.)

hmm…traditionalist Catholics tend to more leery of ecumenism and are very strict with doctrine. I don’t think, however, preference for the TLM is always a characteristic of the traditionalist Catholic. It’s neither a necessary or sufficient condition for being a “traditionalist”. That’s a very simple characterization of a trad catholic. Feel free to add.

You may be right. I’ll change to statement to: for many, a Catholic could not be considered “traditionalist” if he/she was not extremely negative toward at least one thing about the Second Vatican Council, e.g. “what it did to the mass”.

 

[peter26]

I’m a former Anglican. A traditional Anglican church would use something closer to the Roman Rite or the Book of Common Prayer or a mixture of the two. A traditional Anglican church would similar to a traditional leaning NO Catholic parish.

 

[GKC]

I’m a former Anglican. A traditional Anglican church would use something closer to the Roman Rite or the Book of Common Prayer or a mixture of the two. A traditional Anglican church would similar to a traditional leaning NO Catholic parish.

For some concepts of Anglican, that would hold, as far as it went. But for a hard over Anglican on the reformed side, that isn’t traditional, that’s full of Romish innovations. For such, a traditional Anglican service is more likely from the 1552 Book (if possible), perhaps with a table and 2 candles, cassock, surplice, tippet, maybe preaching bands. And that’s only looking at traditional with respect to ritual, not considering doctrine, considered within the historic Anglican spectrum. Or late 20th century fun and games.

Too much to bother with in the subject.

 

[steido01]

You know you’re a trad Lutheran when:

• You have a spare 1941 TLH tucked away in case your current one wears out. (guilty!)
• You have the “page 5” and “page 15” services completely memorized and can hum all the chants.

Yep!

Side note: Did you know we borrowed much of that setting from our Anglican friends? American Lutherans didn’t know how to English (we were still German-ing). So we borrowed their settings, inserted a few of our chorales, and called it good. In the early days before the synods were well-established (1700s-1801), we even occasionally exchanged clergy! Traditionalists seem to find each other.

 

[commenter]

Traditional Catholics - attending Latin Mass, Receive on the tongue, despise Charismatic Catholics.

Not necessarily.
I know you were referring to Catholics here, but “charismatic” and “traditional” go together a lot more than they disagree, across the denominations.

The traditional Catholic is, or maybe used to be, off put by some of the unfamiliar forms of charismatic worship. However, when the traditional Catholic, or traditional Lutheran or Anglican, show up to picket the abortion clinic, they may well find themselves next to charismatics. Traditional Christians of all types tend to emphasize the supernatural, the transcendent dimension of doctrine, worship, healing, and practice of Christian life.

So do charismatics!

When Pope Francis speaks about the reality of Satan acting in the world, I bet that rings a bell of familiarity and agreement both to traditionalists of all stripes, and charismatics across the board of Christianity. This puts both groups on one side; on the other side are liberal Catholics and Protestants, who believe all the problems of the world can be solved by equality, discussions, standardized testing, and more government.

 

[GKC]

Not necessarily.
I know you were referring to Catholics here, but “charismatic” and “traditional” go together a lot more than they disagree, across the denominations.

The traditional Catholic is, or maybe used to be, off put by some of the unfamiliar forms of charismatic worship. However, when the traditional Catholic, or traditional Lutheran or Anglican, show up to picket the abortion clinic, they may well find themselves next to charismatics. Traditional Christians of all types tend to emphasize the supernatural, the transcendent dimension of doctrine, worship, healing, and practice of Christian life.

So do charismatics!

When Pope Francis speaks about the reality of Satan acting in the world, I bet that rings a bell of familiarity and agreement both to traditionalists of all stripes, and charismatics across the board of Christianity. This puts both groups on one side; on the other side are liberal Catholics and Protestants, who believe all the problems of the world can be solved by equality, discussions, standardized testing, and more government.

I agree.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Traditional Anglicans tend to use the 1928 bcp. Can come in both high liturgy and low liturgy. High=incense, thurifer, deacons and subdeacons, as many vestments as the Priest can afford, Eucharist weekly and will often call the service a mass, have a tabernacle w/reserved Eucharist and often hold to 7 Sacraments and address the Priest as Father. Low=usually minimal vestments(cassock, surplice & tippet), often 2 candles but sometimes not, morning/evening prayer are the primary Sunday service, Holy Communion once a month and often adhere strongly to the 39 Articles (2 Sacraments) and often address the Minister by first name.

 

[GKC]

Traditional Anglicans tend to use the 1928 bcp. Can come in both high liturgy and low liturgy. High=incense, thurifer, deacons and subdeacons, as many vestments as the Priest can afford, Eucharist weekly and will often call the service a mass, have a tabernacle w/reserved Eucharist and often hold to 7 Sacraments and address the Priest as Father. Low=usually minimal vestments(cassock, surplice & tippet), often 2 candles but sometimes not, morning/evening prayer are the primary Sunday service, Holy Communion once a month and often adhere strongly to the 39 Articles (2 Sacraments) and often address the Minister by first name.

Yep. And as I said above, those on the reformed (doctrinally) and low (ritually) side of the fence call their practices traditional. On the opposite side, the more Anglo-Catholic/high will do the same.

Depends on which Anglicans you ask.

 

[Peter_J]

“Traditionalist” is almost always synonymous with “high liturgical.” Except, of course, when it’s not.

You know you’re a trad Lutheran when:

• You have a spare 1941 TLH tucked away in case your current one wears out. (guilty!)
• You have the “page 5” and “page 15” services completely memorized and can hum all the chants.

All that really comes to mind for me is the twelve days of Christmas.