Traditionalists, re masonry

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catharina

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Sorry to be jumping into your midst, but I have a question and a request. I don’t come to this forum often since some here have accused me of being a flaming liberal when, in fact, I’m no kind of liberal at all. Now, here’s my question.

Is it usual for five threads to open up regarding masonry and the Church’s opposition to it (forbidding membership in the masons under pain of moratl sin), all within the last few weeks and all from newer CA members, and NONE posted in the Traditionalists forum? I’m really concerend at seeing this posting trend since it seems to have popped up out of nowhere and I’m guessing that maybe those who favor this forum do not necessarily routinely look at other forums. These threads have appeared in both Moral Theology and Non-Catholic Religions forums. There are some of us CA members who are taking great issue with the notion that Catholics can be masons (acc to “personal conscience”) but it seems to me that the strongest voices against masonic membership are NOT being heard. That is, YOUR voices.

Church teaching is very clear - and unchanging for almost 300 years. Catholics can NOT become masons, under pain of mortal sin. I hope that this post of mine is in compliance with what’s allowed on CA. Truly, I’m making you aware if you’re unaware and asking that you take a look at these threads. Thank you.

The links:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3684931#post3684931

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=239040

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3683506#post3683506post3683506

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=234642

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=238017
 
catharina,

In response to your question, I believe that traditional catholics are among the most fervent who are against Freemasonry. From what I understand, the SSPX bishops broke communion with the Holy See partly because they thought that it had become overrun with masons, or at least influenced by them. I personally believe what Pope Leo the XIII wrote about them in his encyclical “Humanum Genus” and in other papal encyclical’s written about them.

Pax Christi,
Rocco
 
roccoangelo said:
catharina,

In response to your question, I believe that traditional catholics are among the most fervent who are against Freemasonry. From what I understand, the SSPX bishops broke communion with the Holy See partly because they thought that it had become overrun with masons, or at least influenced by them. I personally believe what Pope Leo the XIII wrote about them in his encyclical “Humanum Genus” and in other papal encyclical’s written about them.

Pax Christi,
Rocco
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Rocco, I am aware that all traditionalists should be fervent in their repudiation of masonry (not of Rome). Hence, I’m amazed that so fewtrads have responded to the cluster of new threads that exalt the masons. I do understand why these OP do not post their thoughts in this forum. They know their thinking will be rebuked.
 
I saw this as well. To be in the masons is one thing, to be a Catholic who receives the sacrament while being a mason is quite another thing.

Pray for their souls.

I did respond, but how can I possibly reason with a Catholic mason? The notion is too absurd to comprehend.
 
Freshman88 said:
I saw this as well. To be in the masons is one thing, to be a Catholic who receives the sacrament while being a mason is quite another thing.

Pray for their souls.

I did respond, but how can I possibly reason with a Catholic mason? The notion is too absurd to comprehend.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

Yes, the juxtaposition is mind-boggling and horrifically sad.

That the all threads appeared at once is plain old CREEPY.
 
catharina said:
Sorry to be jumping into your midst, but I have a question and a request. I don’t come to this forum often since some here have accused me of being a flaming liberal when, in fact, I’m no kind of liberal at all. Now, here’s my question.

Is it usual for five threads to open up regarding masonry and the Church’s opposition to it (forbidding membership in the masons under pain of moratl sin), all within the last few weeks and all from newer CA members, and NONE posted in the Traditionalists forum? I’m really concerend at seeing this posting trend since it seems to have popped up out of nowhere and I’m guessing that maybe those who favor this forum do not necessarily routinely look at other forums. These threads have appeared in both Moral Theology and Non-Catholic Religions forums. There are some of us CA members who are taking great issue with the notion that Catholics can be masons (acc to “personal conscience”) but it seems to me that the strongest voices against masonic membership are NOT being heard. That is, YOUR voices.

Church teaching is very clear - and unchanging for almost 300 years. Catholics can NOT become masons, under pain of mortal sin. I hope that this post of mine is in compliance with what’s allowed on CA. Truly, I’m making you aware if you’re unaware and asking that you take a look at these threads. Thank you.

The links:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3684931#post3684931

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=239040

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3683506#post3683506post3683506

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=234642

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=238017
Click to expand...
Catharina, first, sorry for the negative experience you have had.

And thank you for the links to the other threads.

Yes, I am always suspicious when a whole series of threads on a relatively new topic appear here. I have even had friends send me email about how upset they were with the proponents of Freemasonry membership.

I think you made a factual error in your post, however. Let me repeat it here.
Church teaching is very clear - and unchanging for almost 300 years. Catholics can NOT become Freemasons, under pain of mortal sin.
Click to expand...
I was under the impression that should a Catholic join the Freemasonry or similar non-approved secret fraternal orders like the Longfellows, that is was not mortal sin, but latae sentiae excommunication. However, I may be wrong about and if I am, I would welcome the correction

In addition, I thought it was Pope Clement XII in 1738 who promulgated this ban and excommunication as the penalty. That is only 270 years, not 300. 😉 😛 (this is meant as humor!) Okay, you did say “almost”. 🙂

Seriously, I will look again at these threads. And again, thank you.
 
=catharina;3685044]
These threads have appeared in both Moral Theology and Non-Catholic Religions forums. There are some of us CA members who are taking great issue with the notion that Catholics can be masons (acc to “personal conscience”) but it seems to me that the strongest voices against masonic membership are NOT being heard. That is, YOUR voices.
Click to expand...
I have been told by the administrators not to post on liturgy and sacraments, to post only on the traditional forum. I am sure that others have been told the same thing. I do read liturgy and sacraments but I don’t post.
Church teaching is very clear - and unchanging for almost 300 years. Catholics can NOT become masons, under pain of mortal sin. I hope that this post of mine is in compliance with what’s allowed on CA. Truly, I’m making you aware if you’re unaware and asking that you take a look at these threads. Thank you.
Click to expand...
The penalty has changed. Excommunication was the punishment, that is no longer true

1917 Canon 2335
Persons joining associations of the Masonic sect or any others of the same kind which plot against the Church and legitimate civil authorities contract ipso facto excommunication simply reserved to the Apostolic See.

1983 Canon 1374:
A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict.

An apologist told me that the Masons in the U.S. are simply a charitable organization but in Europe that have more of the traditional meaning. That is why the word “Masonic” has been removed from Canon Law. It is still forbidden to join any anti-catholic organization.
 
rpp said:
Catharina, first, sorry for the negative experience you have had.

And thank you for the links to the other threads.

Yes, I am always suspicious when a whole series of threads on a relatively new topic appear here. I have even had friends send me email about how upset they were with the proponents of Freemasonry membership.

I think you made a factual error in your post, however. Let me repeat it here.

I was under the impression that should a Catholic join the Freemasonry or similar non-approved secret fraternal orders like the Longfellows, that is was not mortal sin, but latae sentiae excommunication. However, I may be wrong about and if I am, I would welcome the correction

In addition, I thought it was Pope Clement XII in 1738 who promulgated this ban and excommunication as the penalty. That is only 270 years, not 300. 😉 😛 (this is meant as humor!) Okay, you did say “almost”. 🙂

Seriously, I will look again at these threads. And again, thank you.
Click to expand...
papalencyclicals.net/Clem12/c15inemengl.htm
papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13human.htm
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html
 
ProVobis said:
I thought excommunication was a mortal sin.
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Did you mean that excommunicABLE SINS were mortal sins? Excommunication is the punishment imposed by the Church, it isn’t the sin itself.

I don’t see how it’s relevant - is being a Freemason an excommunicable sin?
 
I sort of see it the opposite. The traditional Catholics seem to be the only ones warning about the masons.

You can visit both the Angelqueen and Fisheaters forums (both traditionalist) and you will see that they are VERY against the masons and speak out often against them. I don’t ever see the “liberal” Catholics speaking out against them, and rarely do the conservative Catholics.

That’s my observation anyway.
 
rpp said:
Catharina, first, sorry for the negative experience you have had.

And thank you for the links to the other threads.

Yes, I am always suspicious when a whole series of threads on a relatively new topic appear here. I have even had friends send me email about how upset they were with the proponents of Freemasonry membership.

I think you made a factual error in your post, however. Let me repeat it here.

I was under the impression that should a Catholic join the Freemasonry or similar non-approved secret fraternal orders like the Longfellows, that is was not mortal sin, but latae sentiae excommunication. However, I may be wrong about and if I am, I would welcome the correction

In addition, I thought it was Pope Clement XII in 1738 who promulgated this ban and excommunication as the penalty. That is only 270 years, not 300. 😉 😛 (this is meant as humor!) Okay, you did say “almost”. 🙂

Seriously, I will look again at these threads. And again, thank you.
Click to expand...
The Church has declared that Catholics who enroll in Masonry are in a state of grave sin. When they knowingly defy the Church, the penalty is excommunication

.scripturecatholic.com/freemasonfaq.html#faq10
 
dizzy_dave said:
I sort of see it the opposite. The traditional Catholics seem to be the only ones warning about the masons.
Click to expand...
There is good reason for this. Traditionalist are much more aware of recent Church history and also have a strong distaste for the secularism and subjectivism which can only be described as anti-Catholic.
 
rpp said:
Catharina, first, sorry for the negative experience you have had.

And thank you for the links to the other threads.

Yes, I am always suspicious when a whole series of threads on a relatively new topic appear here. I have even had friends send me email about how upset they were with the proponents of Freemasonry membership.

I think you made a factual error in your post, however. Let me repeat it here.

I was under the impression that should a Catholic join the Freemasonry or similar non-approved secret fraternal orders like the Longfellows, that is was not mortal sin, but latae sentiae excommunication. However, I may be wrong about and if I am, I would welcome the correction

In addition, I thought it was Pope Clement XII in 1738 who promulgated this ban and excommunication as the penalty. That is only 270 years, not 300. 😉 😛 (this is meant as humor!) Okay, you did say “almost”. 🙂

Seriously, I will look again at these threads. And again, thank you.
Click to expand...
The fact of 270 years is "“almost 300 years” as I said. (“Church teaching is very clear - and unchanging for almost 300 years. Catholics can NOT become masons, under pain of mortal sin.”) Really, I can’t laugh about any of this. Yes, the penalty of excommunication was leveled by Pope Clement in 1738; the penalty now, acc to the Vatican, is recognition of mortal sin and the penalty of no reception of Holy Communion for the sinner until and unless a full Confession is made and one removes himself from membership in the masonic cult.
 
LilyM said:
Did you mean that excommunicABLE SINS were mortal sins?
Click to expand...
Actually more that the excommunicable actions or position are grounds for mortal sin. There has to be full knowledge and consent also.

Having said that, the argument is after Archbishop Lefebrve incurred the penalty of excommunication, he went straight to Hell. That sounds like a mortal sin is in there somewhere to me.
 
Catherina is 100% right, a co-worker of mine is a devout Catholic, “so to speak”, because he is also a devout Mason. A Catholic Mason is a ludicrousy:shrug: , like a Jewish Nazi, or a Christian Pagan. it is impossible.
 
catharina said:
There are some of us CA members who are taking great issue with the notion that Catholics can be masons (acc to “personal conscience”) but it seems to me that the strongest voices against masonic membership are NOT being heard. That is, YOUR voices.
Click to expand...
Hi Catharina, I tried to start a discussion here in this forum in regards to the Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita, which is a very disturbing masonic document that fell into the hands of Pope Gregory XVI in the early 1800’s. It was a plan for the subversion of the Church.

For whatever reason, my thread was moved to Apologetics where it faded rapidly with little reply. It’s not a comfortable topic to begin with, and so I never asked why it was moved so quickly. (da’ rulz say don’t question mod’s decisions)

It’s tied in with modernism, and though suggesting the masons achieved their goal flirts with the"conspiricy theory" thing, if one follows the timeline, it’s again, a very disturbing study.

Not many are aware of the document, and even over on fish FE forum, a thread started to discuss it got no reply.
websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/apologia/vpost?id=1223733&trail=

At any rate, one only needs to read the Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita to understand why the Church condemns freemasonry.
 
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