Traditionalists (SSPX) Catholics, Why not right?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dizzy_dave
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Thanks Ryan!

Let me see if I’ve got this straight. It all starts with Lefebrere who formed the SSPX. The splinter from this group that reconciled with Rome is FSSP and the splinter that splintered further is SSPV? Too many acronyms for me 🙂 . I’ll never keep who is who straight but I think I at least get it.

Kris
 
That is pretty close. The FSSP did not splinter from the SSPX though. The FSSP was formed independently of the SSPX with the full endorsement and blessing of the Pope. Priests who defected from the SSPX and reconciled with the Pope joined the FSSP.

Basically, you have loyal traditional Priests in the FSSP on one side of the fence, and fringe sedevacantists (SSPV) on the other side of the fence. The SSPX is straddling the fence between outright sedevacantism and loyalty to the Pope. We need to pray that the SSPX either collectively or individually comes over to the side the FSSP is on.

What I was saying earlier, is that the SSPX could continue to exist in a manner such as the FSSP if they renounce schism and reconcile with the Pope. If the society does not do this though, individual Priests within the society ought to leave for the FSSP.
God bless,
Ryan
 
For an academic point of view, read The Smoke of Satan: Conservative and Traditionalist Dissent in Contemporary American Catholicism by Michael Cuneo. This book is uneven in parts but offers a broad overview of some of the problems traditonalists have fallen into.
 
40.png
ServusChristi:
As I understand it, their Masses are neither licit nor valid.
Click to expand...
Valid, yes. Licit, no.
 
I was referring to the SSPV. SSPX Masses are valid but not licit. SSPV Masses (to my knowledge) are neither.
 
40.png
JimG:
I wonder what the chances are that they would return by incorporating into the Priestly Fraternity of St.Peter (FSSP), for example.

JimG
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t think that would happen. IIRC the SSPX is approximately double the size of the FSSP. It would probably be more feasible for them to remain separate.

James
 
I was, for personal and logistical reasons, unable to attend my parish’s RCIA course. Being a health professional, my schedule was just to erratic to commit to attending mandatory Wednesday night classes for an entire year. My parish didn’t understand this, so I went elsewhere.

A buddy on the internet gave me the number of a local SSPX church. I called them and asked the receptionist if they were schismatic. She said, “NO.” So, I went.

I did half of my catechesis one-on-one with an SSPX priest. The rest I did on my own. Father’s lessons were EXCELLENT. I know the faith better than most of my cohorts.

I left SSPX when I saw that the priest posted an article on the church bulletin board from rense.com that said the US government planned 911, in order to support the New World Order. That’s a wee bit out there for me, so, I left.

They are in schism because Pope John Paul ordered Archbishop Lebeferve not to ordain some Bishops, and he did so anyway. Many SSPX parishes lack a bishop. They lack the “apostolic” mark of the one true church. In many parishes, the local priest acts like a pope.

They are not sedevacantist because they have fidelity to Pope John Paul II. However, many church attendees are sedevacantist, and they say AWFUL things about Our Little Popester.

SSPX priests have the power to confer all the sacraments, except for Penance, which also requires juridisction. SSPX priest have no authority to forgive sins.

I miss the SSPX Mass, and the piety. The Tridentene is clearly a superior Mass. My heart would not allow me to “divorce” Rome, so I returned to Novus Ordo. I figure I can set a good example for my more liberal Catholic brothers and sisters. BUT … if Rome were to ever declare SSPX to be in communion with Rome, then I’d return in a New York Minute.
 
quote: “As I understand it, their [SSPX] Masses are neither licit nor valid.”

This isn’t quite true. There was a letter floating around the internet regarding this. I’ll see if I can find it in my home files. A layperson wrote to the Vatican and asked if SSPX masses are valid. The response from the Vatican (to best of my memory) was this:

YES. The SSPX Masses are valid but they are illicit. (Meaning the consecration is valid but the Mass is performed without permission). We are required to have Indults for Latin Masses. We can attend SSPX masses out of a spirit of nostalgia, but we must be aware that we are in proximity to schism. We must take care not to closely associate with SSPX parish regular membres. SSPX Masses fulfil the Sunday Obligation.

Then I read a second letter on the net from St. Mike’s Q and A forum, written by a priest?, which said that we can attend SSPX for Sunday Mass, not Daily Mass. Also this priest said we are forbidden from participating in SSPX sacraments, and if one does so, he has broken communion with Rome.

That’s all I can remember for now.

Oh! Another reason why I left SSPX is because the Priest ordered me not to attend Novus Ordo Masses. Since the SSPX mass was held once a month, I’d miss three Sunday Masses per month. I coudn’t do that, cause it’s a Mortal Sin to miss Mass. So, I disobeyed the SSPX priest and attended Novus Ordo anyway. When one of my fellow SSPX parishioners found out, he freaked out and told me “You can’t goto both. You have to choose!”

SO I DID!!!
 
Hello,

Let me make something clear… the quote you took from me was referring to the SSPV (the Society of Saint Pius V) which is a break away group from the SSPX.

SSPX Masses are valid but not licit. SSPV Masses (to my knowledge) are neither. The SSPV is sedevacantist.
God bless,
Ryan
 
40.png
TheGrowingGrape:
I miss the SSPX Mass, and the piety. The Tridentene is clearly a superior Mass. My heart would not allow me to “divorce” Rome, so I returned to Novus Ordo. I figure I can set a good example for my more liberal Catholic brothers and sisters. BUT … if Rome were to ever declare SSPX to be in communion with Rome, then I’d return in a New York Minute.
Click to expand...
Try to find and indult Mass or an FSSP priest. The FSSP is like the SSPX only in Communion with the See of Peter. We should pray for reconciliation between the SSPX and the Holy Father.
God bless,
Ryan
 
Yeah. FSSP would be PERFECT for someone like me, but there isn’t an FSSP parish in Oregon.

We used to have the Vatican II indult Mass at Sacred Heart of Medford, but the Pastor had to stop because not enough people attended. He was heartbroken over it, you could tell. He said he LOVED giving the Latin Mass, and implied he preferred the Latin Indult over the Novus Ordo! Oh well. He does a BEAUTIFUL high Novus Ordo Mass on Sundays.
 
That’s unfortunate… pray for the wide and generous application of the indult.

The FSSP is doing good work, but they aren’t yet big enough to serve the demand for them. Imagine what good could be done if the SSPX reconciled and then both FSSP and SSPX were offering the indult!
Peace,
Ryan
 
My take is very simple.

FACTS:
  1. The SSPX are schismatic. However, there masses are VALID but illicit.
  2. Most Novus Ordo masses I have been too (especially in Florida) are illicit. Whether a nun gives the homily or the Eucharist bread taste sweet there is ALWAYS something illicit going on.
So, my conscience tells me that I would rather go to an illicit SSPX mass then go to an illicit Novus Ordo mass.

I will be happy to stand in front of Jesus on this issue.

God Bless!
 
Byzantine, that is SOOOO true:clapping: 👋 . I AGREE. If the Church continues it’s move to cator to the feminists, and each priest continues toi give his persoanl take on things, and I continue to see electric guitars, the dancing side to side, masses imitating pentecostals, and feel good liturgies, I WILL BE ONE WHO WILL(if the liturgical abuses continue) only start attending the SSPX Masses, retreats, liturgies.

If women reach the priesthood or become deacons, even faster will I go to groups who remain Catholic: SSPX.
I like all the posts you have written. Have you read the one I wrote? “Charismatic Hysteria” on the Liturgy forum???
 
Melman - your question was valid and I frankly don’t know the answer.

I so know that some people I know who went to SSPX masses before there was a valid Indult Mass, also went to a local Licit priest for confession and to the SSPX for communion.

I think they know the difference and if they are now attending Tridentine Mass, I think they know also -

As to wheher they obey, I can’t say.

But you are correct to say that SSPX do not have faculties to absolve sins or assist in marriages.

Someone else is correct though in saying when they “rejoin” the regular Church, they do not have to be remarried.

This whole question of valid vs licit is very complicated and difficult for most of us lay persons to grasp initially.

As for the rest of my fellow traditionalists, get off Melman’s case, such defensive attitudes about every question someone asks about SSPX and Traditionalists may be valid (maybe not but let’s not judge) - we certainly won’t save any souls or make any converts to traditionalism by beating up those inquriing or disagreeing.

Let’s all put away our pride and be more charitable to each other in our questions and our answers in this complex issue.
 
40.png
aByzantineCatho:
My take is very simple.

FACTS:
  1. The SSPX are schismatic. However, there masses are VALID but illicit.
  2. Most Novus Ordo masses I have been too (especially in Florida) are illicit. Whether a nun gives the homily or the Eucharist bread taste sweet there is ALWAYS something illicit going on.
So, my conscience tells me that I would rather go to an illicit SSPX mass then go to an illicit Novus Ordo mass.

I will be happy to stand in front of Jesus on this issue.

God Bless!
Click to expand...
There is one substantial difference. A Cathlolic does have recourse to address illicit practices of abuses within churches that use the current Ordo Missae. Chapter twelve of Mass Confusion (James Akin) addresses practical steps that may be taken. SSPX does not respond to the authority of Rome. I myself attend a proper and licit Mass in the venacular, so I have never needed to take any corrective action.
 
Have you guys ever seen this article? It says that Cardinal Ratzinger told this person that he can attend the SSPX’s masses if they do not want to separate themselves from the Roman Pontiff. heres the article: http://www.oltyn.com/sspx-obl.htm
 
Well well what you posted is a part of the answser which really is

" 1.) The priests of the Society of St. Pius X are validly ordained, but they are suspended from exercising their priestly functions. To the extent that they adhere to the schism of the late Archbishop Lefebvre, they are also excommunicated.
2.) Concretely this means that the Masses offered by these priests are valid, but illicit i.e., contrary to the law of the Church.
Points 1 and 3 in our letter of 27 September 2002 to this correspondent are accurately reported. His first question was “Can I fulfill my Sunday obligation by attending a Pius X Mass” and our response was:
“1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X.”
His second question was “Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass” and we responded stating:
“2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin.”
His third question was: “Is it a sin for me to contribute to the Sunday collection at a Pius X Mass” to which we responded: "

So while it is allowed, it is not recommended. Attending the Mass would not allow to “join the SSPX Parish”.

The issue of separated from Rome is that Rome considers the SSPX to be seprated from Rome but the SSPX does not see themselves as excommunicated. I pray daily that this separation can be resolved and that these separted brothers and sisters can again be in communion with Rome like those in Campos are now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top