Traditions of Man - Divorce and Remarriage

[john_ennis]

100% in agreement with you, and this is the exact same thing that other donimations experance but one thing they do not allow is divorce but they reconigise that it happends. You see in the end only God knows the depths of ones heart thi sis why we are not to judge

But here’s something crucial–The Roman Catholic Church is essentially the only denomination which tells those divorce/remarried people, “You are living in an adulterous relationship. As long as you continue to do this, you are committing adultery.”

This is what Christ taught, but what other Church tells its divorced member this?

It is not loving or non-judmental to ignore this. Christ taught this for a reason. He wants us to know it.

It would be judgmental to say that all such people are going to Helll–as you correctly said, only Christ knows their hearts. BUT, it is merely echoing Scripture to point out that what they are doing is intrinsically sinful.

Peace.
John

 

[JSmitty2005]

Just being picky. The Church isn’t a denomination.

 

[blackbelt]

john ennis:

But here’s something crucial–The Roman Catholic Church is essentially the only denomination which tells those divorce/remarried people, “You are living in an adulterous relationship. As long as you continue to do this, you are committing adultery.”
Peace.
John

Yes you are right again but the Rc takes this view from the Old Testament when we lived under the law and other denominations Look to the New Covenant of saved by Grace.

But on these to topics of Law and Grace we can make this thread a never ending story which I would have to fight with you over selling rights . Some will and do use Grace as a free license to divorce and some lie when it comes to the Law. But I do not belive in the contuniouse adulturis life of the 2nd , I belive the Blood of Christ Covers all unless of course couples you Christ blood as an excuse to commit sin also.

Mind you also some divorcees come to Christ after divorce, we are corrupted, fallible creatures so we are in no position to judge.

 

[john_ennis]

blackbelt:

Yes you are right again but the Rc takes this view from the Old Testament when we lived under the law and other denominations Look to the New Covenant of saved by Grace.

.

This view is a direct quote from Jesus. New Testament.
There are few areas in which various denominations can be more clearly shown to be of the culture (that is, of men) rather than of the Holy Spirit than in the setting aside of this teaching of Christ.

Peace.
John

 

[sandusky]

Kay Cee:

That’s an interesting way of looking at it. However, I’m wondering if both parties are allowed to remarry, because that sure is what I see in most denominations. And I’m wondering too what happens if, after both parties have remarried, the offending person returns to the faith.

As far as my church, the merits, or demerits if you will, of each case is dealt with individually. If both parties remarry, what should be done, further divorce, and reunion with the original spouse? That inflicts more damage.There is only so much we helpless and hapless humans can do. Makes one thankful for God and His unfettered forgiveness.
Key Cee:

Jesus, who is God, does say that a spouse who divorces and then remarries commits adultery. Don’t both parties have to sign divorce papers? Don’t both then have to agree to the divorce? If that’s the case, don’t they both divorce each other?

That is what Jesus says, and eventually both parties will sign the papers. Again, we are dealing with sinners, and some sinners make a mess of their lives. Ultimately they will give an account to God.
Kay Cee:

As for your comment, “what else can be done?” I would say that it is not divorce so much that God condemns (although in Malachi 2: 16 He says He hates divorce) but remarriage after it (which he flat out calls adultery). No one is ever obligated to marry after divorce.

I can only speak for my church, and those who are of like mind.

On the basis of the passages I’ve cited, the church does its best to counsel accordingly. For the church to recommend a divorce certain scriptural criteria must be met. Advising divorce is the last counsel; it is a serious matter.

This is a good, real-life lesson in the sinfulness of man. Too often these topics are treated as hypotheticals within the absolute statements of scripture.

However, the truth is, if a sinner will not listen, then he will not listen, and at that point, all that can be done is to follow the teaching of Mt 18, put the unrepentant party out of the church, and after a reasonable amount of time has elapsed, move on.

I have seen some serious marital problems. Men who are physically and verbally abusive, and women who are as well. Personally, when there is physical abuse, the abused is advised to get out, and the church reports the abuse to the civil authorities.

Every conceivable problem that occurs within society at large will be seen within the visible church. That’s life in a fallen world.

 

[john_ennis]

Kay Cee:

Jesus, who is God, does say that a spouse who divorces and then remarries commits adultery. Don’t both parties have to sign divorce papers? Don’t both then have to agree to the divorce? If that’s the case, don’t they both divorce each other?

As for your comment, “what else can be done?” I would say that it is not divorce so much that God condemns (although in Malachi 2: 16 He says He hates divorce) but remarriage after it (which he flat out calls adultery). No one is ever obligated to marry after divorce.

Yes indeed. That’s what the Church continues to teach. Jesus said that in remarriage, adultery is being committed.

No amount of “moving on” or waiting a certain period of time, changes that fact.

Peace.
John

 

[blackbelt]

john ennis:

This view is a direct quote from Jesus. New Testament.
There are few areas in which various denominations can be more clearly shown to be of the culture (that is, of men) rather than of the Holy Spirit than in the setting aside of this teaching of Christ.

Peace.
John

Well we bouth know what Jesus taught about divorce and that in his eyes its a sin, we are bouth in agreement here but the whole contex of the Gosples is that we are completly forgiven in Christ except for one thing and that would be delibrate blasphmoy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[john_ennis]

blackbelt:

Well we bouth know what Jesus taught about divorce and that in his eyes its a sin, we are bouth in agreement here but the whole contex of the Gosples is that we are completly forgiven in Christ except for one thing and that would be delibrate blasphmoy against the Holy Spirit.

We are forgiven any sin…even sins we are not sorry for, and fully intend to keep on committing?

It is a watering down of Jesus’ command, “Go and sin no more…” Had the woman at the well said, “I will continue to live in adultery with my fifth husband, for I know you will forgive me anyway,” that would certainly have been a striking biblical verse!

We are not loving divorced/remarried people by saying they are not committing adultery (Jesus says directly they are), or that they’re forgiven anyway (unrepented sins are not forgiven).

Peace.
John

 

[sandusky]

john ennis:

We are forgiven any sin…even sins we are not sorry for, and fully intend to keep on committing?

It is a watering down of Jesus’ command, “Go and sin no more…” Had the woman at the well said, “I will continue to live in adultery with my fifth husband, for I know you will forgive me anyway,” that would certainly have been a striking biblical verse!

We are not loving divorced/remarried people by saying they are not committing adultery (Jesus says directly they are), or that they’re forgiven anyway (unrepented sins are not forgiven).

Peace.
John

You are very boisterous about this, and act as though we all live in a vacuum. Here is a good life lesson for you and your hypotheticals.

Jesus also said, let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[blackbelt]

john ennis:

We are forgiven any sin…even sins we are not sorry for, and fully intend to keep on committing?

It is a watering down of Jesus’ command, “Go and sin no more…” Had the woman at the well said, “I will continue to live in adultery with my fifth husband, for I know you will forgive me anyway,” that would certainly have been a striking biblical verse!

We are not loving divorced/remarried people by saying they are not committing adultery (Jesus says directly they are), or that they’re forgiven anyway (unrepented sins are not forgiven).

Peace.
John

John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

This Jesus said to the woman about to be stoned, who commited adultry she was not the samatrian woman at the well, but mind you jesus forgave her.

as Far as the woman with 5 husbands , Jesus speaks to her about spirtual drink no where does he say to her go and sin no more as you can see,

in John 4

Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again;
14
but whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
15
The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water, so that I may not be thirsty or have to keep coming here to draw water.”
16
Jesus said to her, “Go call your husband and come back.”
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The woman answered and said to him, “I do not have a husband.” Jesus answered her, “You are right in saying, ‘I do not have a husband.’
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For you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true.”
19
The woman said to him, “Sir, I can see that you are a prophet.
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Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain; 8 but you people say that the place to worship is in Jerusalem.”
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Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
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You people worship what you do not understand; we worship what we understand, because salvation is from the Jews.
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But the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and truth; 9 and indeed the Father seeks such people to worship him.
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God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth.”
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10 The woman said to him, “I know that the Messiah is coming, the one called the Anointed; when he comes, he will tell us everything.”
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Jesus said to her, “I am he, 11 the one who is speaking with you.”
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At that moment his disciples returned, and were amazed that he was talking with a woman, 12 but still no one said, “What are you looking for?” or “Why are you talking with her?”
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The woman left her water jar and went into the town and said to the people,
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“Come see a man who told me everything I have done. Could he possibly be the Messiah?”
30
They went out of the town and came to him.
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Meanwhile, the disciples urged him, “Rabbi, eat.”
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But he said to them, “I have food to eat of which you do not know.”
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So the disciples said to one another, “Could someone have brought him something to eat?”
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Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of the one who sent me and to finish his work.
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Do you not say, ‘In four months 13 the harvest will be here’? I tell you, look up and see the fields ripe for the harvest.
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The reaper is already 14 receiving his payment and gathering crops for eternal life, so that the sower and reaper can rejoice together.
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For here the saying is verified that ‘One sows and another reaps.’
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I sent you to reap what you have not worked for; others have done the work, and you are sharing the fruits of their work.”
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Many of the Samaritans of that town began to believe in him because of the word of the woman 15 who testified, “He told me everything I have done.”
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When the Samaritans came to him, they invited him to stay with them; and he stayed there two days.
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Many more began to believe in him because of his word,
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and they said to the woman, “We no longer believe because of your word; for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is truly the savior of the world.”
43

 

[john_ennis]

blackbelt:

John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

This Jesus said to the woman about to be stoned, who commited adultry she was not the samatrian woman at the well, but mind you jesus forgave her.

as Far as the woman with 5 husbands , Jesus speaks to her about spirtual drink no where does he say to her go and sin no more as you can see,

43

You’re right–I applied Jesus’s, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more,” to the wrong woman.

Of course, the woman at the well was indeed guilty of adultery, but the issue of her repenting never came up.

Jesus never told her she was forgiven.

But surely we agree–one who willingly and unrepentantly continues to sin, is not accepting Jesus’s forgiveness? So, one who knows the Catholic teaching on divorce/remarriage, and chooses to violate it, is rejecting Christ’s forgiveness for this adultery?

Peace.
John

 

[john_ennis]

I think where we disagree is quite stark:

While we both know that Christ’s grace is infinite, and extended to all, I say that deliberately and unrepentantly continuing a sinful practice is in fact a rejection (by us) of His grace and forgiveness.

I would say that this is failing to follow Christ.

I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I think you would say that Christ’s grace covers all sins, even those committed in the manner I just described.

Peace.
John

 

[blackbelt]

john ennis:

You’re right–I applied Jesus’s, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more,” to the wrong woman.

Of course, the woman at the well was indeed guilty of adultery, but the issue of her repenting never came up.

Jesus never told her she was forgiven.

But surely we agree–one who willingly and unrepentantly continues to sin, is not accepting Jesus’s forgiveness? So, one who knows the Catholic teaching on divorce/remarriage, and chooses to violate it, is rejecting Christ’s forgiveness for this adultery?

Peace.
John

no but Jesus does offer her spirtual life if she drinks, Jeuse does not say to her leave your current husband

 

[Eden]

Blackbelt and Sandusky’s views on this are shocking.

They agree that God hates divorce and that Christ told us if one were to divorce and remarry it is adultery.

Yet, it seems that what they are saying is that because Jesus died on the cross for our sins, once you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior you can never sin again - OSAS.

So, even though Jesus told us that to divorce and remarry is adultery, for someone who is “saved” this rule does not apply. Accepting Jesus means that if you divorce and remarry you are not sinning; it applies only to the “unsaved”. Can someone show me where in the Bible Jesus says that if you divorce and remarry after saying the “Jesus Prayer” this rule doesn’t apply?

The other interpretation (Sandusky) is that we all sin. So, if we sin and divorce and remarry God will forgive us anyhow so why get all bent out of shape about some rule Jesus gave us? We’ll say sorry and then He’ll forgive us and when we continue in the adulterous relationship, He’ll just forget about it. The idea seems to be “why are we making such a big deal about someone living in sin? That’s so judgmental!”

After reading these responses, I am ever that more grateful that He left us the Church to lead us into all Truth.

These denominations call themselves “biblically based” but they pick and choose which parts feel good because “it’s just mean” to make someone have to really live the way the bible wants us to.

 

[blackbelt]

john ennis:

I think where we disagree is quite stark:

While we both know that Christ’s grace is infinite, and extended to all, I say that deliberately and unrepentantly continuing a sinful practice is in fact a rejection (by us) of His grace and forgiveness.

I would say that this is failing to follow Christ.

I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I think you would say that Christ’s grace covers all sins, even those committed in the manner I just described.

Peace.
John

i belive the only part we disagree is , is a 2nd marrage contunial sin , I would say no if bouth parties have a repentative heart, I interperate " go and sin no more " meening stop divorcing and remarring dont do it again.

 

[Eden]

blackbelt:

i belive the only part we disagree is , is a 2nd marrage contunial sin , I would say no if bouth parties have a repentative heart, I interperate " go and sin no more " meening stop divorcing and remarring dont do it again.

The relationship continues to be adulterous as long as the two are together in an illicit second marriage. They are “living in sin”. God doesn’t just say, “Oh, you guys, you’re so naughty! Well, alright, I’ll just give you this one. Now, don’t you go divorcing and marrying again or that really is sin!”

As a comparison, imagine someone who has an extramarital affair and asks for forgiveness but continues to have the affair. Obviously they are still committing adultery.

 

[blackbelt]

Eden:

The relationship continues to be adulterous as long as the two are together in an illicit second marriage. They are “living in sin”. God doesn’t just say, “Oh, you guys, you’re so naughty! Well, alright, I’ll just give you this one. Now, don’t you go divorcing and marrying again or that really is sin!”

As a comparison, imagine someone who has an extramarital affair and asks for forgiveness but continues to have the affair. Obviously they are still committing adultery.

I would have to disagree here, If that were true Jesus would also tell the people that they were still in contiunial sin when he was speaking about Moses allowing divorice. so in realit there is no scriptual bases for that line of thinking but there is much scriptual bases for forgiveness.

Rember the theif on the cross, no batisim a life of crime but in his last breath he repented and Christ forgave him

 

[sandusky]

Eden:

Blackbelt and Sandusky’s views on this are shocking.

You are a moralist. For that, Christ condemned the Pharisees.

Eden:

Yet, it seems that what they are saying is that because Jesus died on the cross for our sins, once you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior you can never sin again - OSAS.

Look who’s getting off topic! What are you trying to deflect?

Eden:

So, even though Jesus told us that to divorce and remarry is adultery, for someone who is “saved” this rule does not apply. Accepting Jesus means that if you divorce and remarry you are not sinning; it applies only to the “unsaved”. Can someone show me where in the Bible Jesus says that if you divorce and remarry after saying the “Jesus Prayer” this rule doesn’t apply?

The church lady returns.

Eden:

The other interpretation (Sandusky) is that we all sin. So, if we sin and divorce and remarry God will forgive us anyhow so why get all bent out of shape about some rule Jesus gave us? We’ll say sorry and then He’ll forgive us and when we continue in the adulterous relationship, He’ll just forget about it. The idea seems to be “why are we making such a big deal about someone living in sin? That’s so judgmental!”

Eden you have said nothing coherent about my reasoning from Mt 18, and 1 Cor 7. All you can do is resort to sarcasm. IMHO, you are ill-equipped to discuss this topic, as your sole reason for raising it is to make Holy Mother Church look good, and every other church look bad. You should examine your motives. :tsktsk:

Eden:

After reading these responses, I am ever that more grateful that He left us the Church to lead us into all Truth.

Ah, you prove my point!

Eden:

These denominations call themselves “biblically based” but they pick and choose which parts feel good because “it’s just mean” to make someone have to really live the way the bible wants us to.

Your caricature of others speaks to your lack of understanding; but what else can one do who has no real religious experience other than that of sitting in a pew, and setting up hypothetical theological conundrums that issue from a lack of scriptural understanding?

 

[blackbelt]

From what scripture tells me all Christians all over the world regardless of denomination is part of the body of Christ.

 

[blackbelt]

Eden:

Blackbelt and Sandusky’s views on this are shocking.

They agree that God hates divorce and that Christ told us if one were to divorce and remarry it is adultery.

Yet, it seems that what they are saying is that because Jesus died on the cross for our sins, once you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior you can never sin again - OSAS.

So, even though Jesus told us that to divorce and remarry is adultery, for someone who is “saved” this rule does not apply. Accepting Jesus means that if you divorce and remarry you are not sinning; it applies only to the “unsaved”. Can someone show me where in the Bible Jesus says that if you divorce and remarry after saying the “Jesus Prayer” this rule doesn’t apply?

The other interpretation (Sandusky) is that we all sin. So, if we sin and divorce and remarry God will forgive us anyhow so why get all bent out of shape about some rule Jesus gave us? We’ll say sorry and then He’ll forgive us and when we continue in the adulterous relationship, He’ll just forget about it. The idea seems to be “why are we making such a big deal about someone living in sin? That’s so judgmental!”

After reading these responses, I am ever that more grateful that He left us the Church to lead us into all Truth.

These denominations call themselves “biblically based” but they pick and choose which parts feel good because “it’s just mean” to make someone have to really live the way the bible wants us to.

be carefull all that RIGHTEOUSNESS of your just might be detramental to your health