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deb1
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BrianHThings have changed. When people drank thousands of years ago:
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jim1130
Guest
Peace.
I agree. Being a Christian 2000 years ago would have resulted in becoming entertainment for the Roman population, in the form of martyrdom.
As for the “Christ drank wine” perspective: There are MANY non-Catholics who contend that Christ did not drink wine, but grape fruit juice. There are even papers, opinions, and web sites devoted to arguing that the wine was actualy grape fruit juice. No matter that it makes no sense. Just another man-made tradition.
I truly believe that if Christ showed up today at a parish picnic, He would have a beer or two with the rest of us. After all, he is Christ. He is not hung up on how people view Him.
Peace.
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Alfie
Guest
I find it hard to believe that Jesus would be caught drinking a glass of wine or smoking a cigarette. The Bible talks about how in the last days people will be using hallucinating drugs. Alcohol is a drug. I still believe what I have been taught…that there is a difference between fermented wine and unfermented wine (grape juice). I just cannot believe that God condones a substance that can alter a human mind.There is no other reason for someone to drink alcohol unless you are trying to get a buzz. What is wrong with drinking grape juice? The Bible says to be drunk on the Holy Spirit and not wine. The Bible also talks about all the problems caused by drunkiness. Noah was drunk on wine and look what happened to him and his daughters.
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jim1130
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Peace.
You cite examples of abuse of wine. Nowhere is the abuse of wine condoned.
But there is nothing wrong with a glass of wine (or beer) provided it is done in moderation. The sin occurs from the abuse.
If you choose to not drink wine, or any alcoholic beverage, that is your decision; it is not a requisite or madnate from God. All we ask is that you do not pass judgment on those who do drink wine. Remember, Christ was a Jew and a devout and good Jew at that and wine played a signiciant role in Jewish rituals so there is no doubt Christ drank wine.
Peace.
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Eden
Guest
Please do not add “smoking a cigarette” when no one discussed that. The smoking of cigarettes is not addressed in the Bible but the drinking of wine clearly is.
Of course wine was alcoholic. That is why the Bible teaches to drink it in moderation. Do we need to be told to drink grape juice in moderation? Also, if you look at the Wedding at Cana, you will see talk about saving “the inferior wine until the end”. See, usually the lower quality wine was saved “until the end” because people would not notice the lower quality as readily. The fact that Jesus “saved the best wine until the end” was unusual. “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one.” (John 2:1-1)
“The Bible tells us Jesus drank wine (Luke 7:34)–often enough, apparently, that his detractors accused him of being a drunkard.” That kind of accusation does not come from drinking grape juice.
Also, “the Greek word for wine, oinos, used in the “don’t get drunk on it” verses, is the same word used in the “it’s okay to drink it in moderation” verses.”
The fact is, the Bible is talking about wine - with alcohol - not grape juice. There is no way around that fact.
No so. (1 Tim. 5:23) - Paul tells Timothy to drink not just water, but a little wine for the sake of his stomach and frequent ailments.
Some information is from the CA library tract “Grapes of Wrath”.
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Jeanette_L
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You forget that Jesus was caught not only drinking wine, but drinking wine with SINNERS
and was called a glutton and a wine bibber by the PHARISEES. See any comparison with those on this thread? Not only was he caught drinking it , but he made it. I’m not sure you have read throughly the previous posts here. I don’t think you will find anyone here who thinks Jesus or the Bible condones drunkeness or smoking. The issue is, whether the Bible promotes the prohibition of all alcohol or whether it teaches moderation in the consumption of all things good and the rule of an informed conscience in making that decision.
It has been noted by a previous poster that the pasturization process that would enable the safe drinking of grape juice was not even invented until the 19th century, thereby making the consumption of grape juice unhealthy unless it had undergone the fermentation process, so the theory that Christ and all his followers living in the New Testament times drank only grape juice is preposterous.
So, given that, the question is, why do people in certain Christian denominations stubbornly hold on to doctrines that are not biblical in their foundation while maintaining they are the True Bible Christians? There has been plenty of Biblical evidence provided on this thread showing that Scriptures are just not in the corner of those who make up these lifestyle rules and try to force them (for lack of a better term at the moment) on all Christians, regardless of their **Biblical ** right to individual conscience in these matters.
And remember, **WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT ** **DRUNKENESS!!! ** We are talking about the moderate consumption of alcohol for those who can consume it in moderation and whose consciences remain clear in doing so.
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