Training Seminar of EM's Dilemma

[Teelynn]

I have a question or maybe let’s call it a Dilemma in regard to the training seminars for my Eucharistic Ministers. I am in a coordinator for EM’s at my Parish Site. (we are a combined Parish) My H and I attended a training seminar that my Archdiocese mandates to be renewed every 3 years for all EM’s in all the Parishes of the Archdiocese. At this seminar the presenters ( a priest and another female presenter) made some questionable inferences that H and I were more than a little uncomfortable with. First of all the Priest was about 10 minutes late for the seminar, so we got started without him. When he came in he introduced himself and said: "Hi, my name is ----- (won’t specify for security reasons) He stated only his first name. Said "not Fr. ----- just -----. That’s how I was born, and baptized and that’s what how I want it to stay." H and I looked at each other like…ok ??? The female presenter went into her spiel about the history of the Eucharist…at one point she talked about female EM’s and how the Church had evolved to include them. Then she made reference to the “ever changing and evolving Church”, and how the Church is a living breathing body of Christ. Inferred that the Church would eventually evolve to include women Clergy. (can’t remember exactly how she put it, but almost had to hold H down so as to not walk out) Very relativistic in tone.

Dilemma is that I am expected to remind some of my EM’s that their certification is due and there is another seminar in March that they need to attend in order to continue their ministry. Happened to notice in the Memo I received, that the presenters are the same two that we had last fall. So…how or why would I want to send my EM’s to a seminar where Church teachings are somewhat skewed? What to do about this? I guess I can go to the liturgy head and talk about it, but they are pretty strict about making sure everyone is mandated. Any ideas anyone?

 

[thomas_jd]

I have a question or maybe let’s call it a Dilemma in regard to the training seminars for my Eucharistic Ministers. I am in a coordinator for EM’s at my Parish Site. (we are a combined Parish) My H and I attended a training seminar that my Archdiocese mandates to be renewed every 3 years for all EM’s in all the Parishes of the Archdiocese. At this seminar the presenters ( a priest and another female presenter) made some questionable inferences that H and I were more than a little uncomfortable with. First of all the Priest was about 10 minutes late for the seminar, so we got started without him. When he came in he introduced himself and said: "Hi, my name is ----- (won’t specify for security reasons) He stated only his first name. Said "not Fr. ----- just -----. That’s how I was born, and baptized and that’s what how I want it to stay." H and I looked at each other like…ok ??? The female presenter went into her spiel about the history of the Eucharist…at one point she talked about female EM’s and how the Church had evolved to include them. Then she made reference to the “ever changing and evolving Church”, and how the Church is a living breathing body of Christ. Inferred that the Church would eventually evolve to include women Clergy. (can’t remember exactly how she put it, but almost had to hold H down so as to not walk out) Very relativistic in tone.

Dilemma is that I am expected to remind some of my EM’s that their certification is due and there is another seminar in March that they need to attend in order to continue their ministry. Happened to notice in the Memo I received, that the presenters are the same two that we had last fall. So…how or why would I want to send my EM’s to a seminar where Church teachings are somewhat skewed? What to do about this? I guess I can go to the liturgy head and talk about it, but they are pretty strict about making sure everyone is mandated. Any ideas anyone?

Ask the pastor to train the new and existing E.M.H.C.'s.
Offer to co-ordinate the certification process with the Archdiocese.
The pastor can teach the correct liturgical norms and you , the proper procedures.

 

[archangel04]

Best thing you can do is bring it up to the Bishop. This is exactly what our Holy Father is trying to clean out of the Church. The Chuch is living and grows organically like the liturgy does, but it does not mean she changes her teachings, disciplines may change, but her teachings on Faith and morals do not! John Paul 2 closed the argument for women cleregy in 1994 with his letter where he specifically states that the Church has no authority to ordained women. Done!

 

[Barbkw]

"Said “not Fr. ----- just -----. That’s how I was born, and baptized and that’s what how I want it to stay.” "

Was he also wearing civilian cloths?



“Inferred that the Church would eventually evolve to include women Clergy.” She apparently disagrees with Pope Benedict’s decision on the ordination of women. And how he also issued a warning to any Bishop who ordains a woman as priest.

I won’t even go into what I heard a 75 year old nun say about woman priests when she visited the RCIA class.

 

[Marie5890]

If you cant get a hold of the bishop, try getting in touch with the diocese’s director of divine worship. In my archdiocese these training sessions fall under him.

 

[joandarc2008]

Put it all in a letter to the Bishop - he needs to know - the Eucharist is not where we need to have bad catechesis.

 

[PbloPicasso]

Ask the pastor to train the new and existing E.M.H.C.'s.
Offer to co-ordinate the certification process with the Archdiocese.
The pastor can teach the correct liturgical norms and you , the proper procedures.

Why not speak up. Say, that is absolute heresy to even speak such a thing. Make sure that everyone there knows that is not true. People that get in front of crowds and speak out like this should be corrected in front of those they are scandalizing. I never put up with it and I’m still here. A priest brought this up once and I snuffed it out immediately by quoting ECF and Venerable Pope John Paul II, The Great. I’m a revert and made sure I understood this teaching. I would never have reverted had the Church gone ammuck with this point. The Church has no authority to change what Christ established. If no one speaks up these clowns get to continue. If we continue to make life impossible for them they tend to fall off the earth, retire, etc. I’ve seen one lady retire after the way she treated us during the inquiry for the diacoante. If God wants me to be a deacon then He will have the last word. I’m not saying be rude, but say it plain as day. Don’t let Satan hide behind people misguided by their agendas.

Whatever you do, don’t be silent. But also bring it up to your pastor, the ordinary, with is the bishop. Make sure he knows. Ask the lady what her name is so that you can write the bishop to let him know that women are expected to be ordained according to Ms. or Mr. “X” and Fr. “Y” who refused to be called “Fr.” and only allows “Y”. I bet you’ll get a couple of nervous people on your hands. But be prepared to share your faith with these non-Catholics that think their Catholic. In order to be Catholic, they must accept the teachings of the Church. No "if, and, or , buts’ about it.

 

[thistle]

I have a question or maybe let’s call it a Dilemma in regard to the training seminars for my Eucharistic Ministers. I am in a coordinator for EM’s at my Parish Site. (we are a combined Parish) My H and I attended a training seminar that my Archdiocese mandates to be renewed every 3 years for all EM’s in all the Parishes of the Archdiocese. At this seminar the presenters ( a priest and another female presenter) made some questionable inferences that H and I were more than a little uncomfortable with. First of all the Priest was about 10 minutes late for the seminar, so we got started without him. When he came in he introduced himself and said: "Hi, my name is ----- (won’t specify for security reasons) He stated only his first name. Said "not Fr. ----- just -----. That’s how I was born, and baptized and that’s what how I want it to stay." H and I looked at each other like…ok ??? The female presenter went into her spiel about the history of the Eucharist…at one point she talked about female EM’s and how the Church had evolved to include them. Then she made reference to the “ever changing and evolving Church”, and how the Church is a living breathing body of Christ. Inferred that the Church would eventually evolve to include women Clergy. (can’t remember exactly how she put it, but almost had to hold H down so as to not walk out) Very relativistic in tone.

Dilemma is that I am expected to remind some of my EM’s that their certification is due and there is another seminar in March that they need to attend in order to continue their ministry. Happened to notice in the Memo I received, that the presenters are the same two that we had last fall. So…how or why would I want to send my EM’s to a seminar where Church teachings are somewhat skewed? What to do about this? I guess I can go to the liturgy head and talk about it, but they are pretty strict about making sure everyone is mandated. Any ideas anyone?

Sorry to digress and be pedantic but only the priest is the Eucharistic Minister. Lay people can be Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion/Eucharist which does not make them Eucharistic Ministers.

 

[PbloPicasso]

Sorry to digress and be pedantic but only the priest is the Eucharistic Minister. Lay people can be Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion/Eucharist which does not make them Eucharistic Ministers.

pedantic [pɪˈdæntɪk]adj of, relating to, or characterized by pedantrypedantically adv

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

Just in case anyone else had to look it up. EMHC, NOT EM.

 

[MarkThompson]

pedantic [pɪˈdæntɪk]adj of, relating to, or characterized by pedantrypedantically adv

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

Just in case anyone else had to look it up. EMHC, NOT EM.

Awesome; defining “pedantic” in terms of “pedantry” will surely be a big help to people who did not recognize the word.

 

[PbloPicasso]

Awesome; defining “pedantic” in terms of “pedantry” will surely be a big help to people who did not recognize the word.

:bounce: I’m just happy as a lark.



I always love it when a word is defined by itself. Remind me not to purchase a Harper dictionary. I married a one and that’s enough for me.

 

[Aramis]

In this case, because it affects the Dignity and Solemnity of the Holy Eucharist, per Redemptionis Sacramentum, ¶183-184, you have an obligation to inform the bishop.

Send him a letter with dates, names, and the egregious statements.

And also, note that the appropriate term is Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, not Eucharistic Ministers, unless you’re training priests! (RS, as well.)

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

 

[laszlo]

The priest is not part of the teaching office (hierarchy) of the Church, he is Alterego of Christ only when he administers the sacraments, so outside of that he may be informal.

If the female speaker in any way mentioned her expectation that in the future there will be female priests or bishops, you have the moral obligation to report it to your archbishop. This is against our Catholic faith. Otherwise, if she just believe that in the future females will get the blessing for Lectors or Acolytes may be for being deaconesses this is matter of theological opinion and temporary discipline. The statement that the Church is living Church and constantly changing is fact. We are the living body of Jesus Christ. The proof for this is, that you and your husband are allowed be Extraordinary Ministers of the Holy Communion. When I was young such thing was unimaginable, now you think about it as norm.

I have a question or maybe let’s call it a Dilemma in regard to the training seminars for my Eucharistic Ministers. I am in a coordinator for EM’s at my Parish Site. (we are a combined Parish) My H and I attended a training seminar that my Archdiocese mandates to be renewed every 3 years for all EM’s in all the Parishes of the Archdiocese. At this seminar the presenters ( a priest and another female presenter) made some questionable inferences that H and I were more than a little uncomfortable with. First of all the Priest was about 10 minutes late for the seminar, so we got started without him. When he came in he introduced himself and said: "Hi, my name is ----- (won’t specify for security reasons) He stated only his first name. Said "not Fr. ----- just -----. That’s how I was born, and baptized and that’s what how I want it to stay." H and I looked at each other like…ok ??? The female presenter went into her spiel about the history of the Eucharist…at one point she talked about female EM’s and how the Church had evolved to include them. Then she made reference to the “ever changing and evolving Church”, and how the Church is a living breathing body of Christ. Inferred that the Church would eventually evolve to include women Clergy. (can’t remember exactly how she put it, but almost had to hold H down so as to not walk out) Very relativistic in tone.

Dilemma is that I am expected to remind some of my EM’s that their certification is due and there is another seminar in March that they need to attend in order to continue their ministry. Happened to notice in the Memo I received, that the presenters are the same two that we had last fall. So…how or why would I want to send my EM’s to a seminar where Church teachings are somewhat skewed? What to do about this? I guess I can go to the liturgy head and talk about it, but they are pretty strict about making sure everyone is mandated. Any ideas anyone?

 

[Teelynn]

"Said “not Fr. ----- just -----. That’s how I was born, and baptized and that’s what how I want it to stay.” "

Was he also wearing civilian cloths?



“Inferred that the Church would eventually evolve to include women Clergy.” She apparently disagrees with Pope Benedict’s decision on the ordination of women. And how he also issued a warning to any Bishop who ordains a woman as priest.

I won’t even go into what I heard a 75 year old nun say about woman priests when she visited the RCIA class.

Yes, he was wearing casual pants and a polo shirt…kind of looked like he just stepped off the golf course.

 

[Teelynn]

Why not speak up. Say, that is absolute heresy to even speak such a thing. Make sure that everyone there knows that is not true. People that get in front of crowds and speak out like this should be corrected in front of those they are scandalizing. I never put up with it and I’m still here. A priest brought this up once and I snuffed it out immediately by quoting ECF and Venerable Pope John Paul II, The Great. I’m a revert and made sure I understood this teaching. I would never have reverted had the Church gone ammuck with this point. The Church has no authority to change what Christ established. If no one speaks up these clowns get to continue. If we continue to make life impossible for them they tend to fall off the earth, retire, etc. I’ve seen one lady retire after the way she treated us during the inquiry for the diacoante. If God wants me to be a deacon then He will have the last word. I’m not saying be rude, but say it plain as day. Don’t let Satan hide behind people misguided by their agendas.

Whatever you do, don’t be silent. But also bring it up to your pastor, the ordinary, with is the bishop. Make sure he knows. Ask the lady what her name is so that you can write the bishop to let him know that women are expected to be ordained according to Ms. or Mr. “X” and Fr. “Y” who refused to be called “Fr.” and only allows “Y”. I bet you’ll get a couple of nervous people on your hands. But be prepared to share your faith with these non-Catholics that think their Catholic. In order to be Catholic, they must accept the teachings of the Church. No "if, and, or , buts’ about it.

Unfortunately, to my “bad” I am sometimes not that quick on my feet. It takes me a while for things to sink in, especially when I am taken by surprise. However, we did not in fact give them a good evaluation at the end…had to turn in an evaluation of which we both voiced our concerns for whatever that was worth. But I am going to have a long talk with one of our Deacons to pass on to Fr. (he is overly difficult to corner for any length of time as he’s actually running 3 Church sites) But this Deacon gets with him regularly in regard to Liturgy.

 

[Teelynn]

The priest is not part of the teaching office (hierarchy) of the Church, he is Alterego of Christ only when he administers the sacraments, so outside of that he may be informal.

If the female speaker in any way mentioned her expectation that in the future there will be female priests or bishops, you have the moral obligation to report it to your archbishop. This is against our Catholic faith. Otherwise, if she just believe that in the future females will get the blessing for Lectors or Acolytes may be for being deaconesses this is matter of theological opinion and temporary discipline. The statement that the Church is living Church and constantly changing is fact. We are the living body of Jesus Christ. The proof for this is, that you and your husband are allowed be Extraordinary Ministers of the Holy Communion. When I was young such thing was unimaginable, now you think about it as norm.

Yep, I agree, this is kind of a tricky situation…the female speaker did in fact mention “clergy” but “clergy” could in fact be other than the priesthood. Neither of us liked the “flavor” of the seminar, however. Things can be inferred without really coming out and saying anything contrary to Church teachings. And yes, the priest was not technically out of line in street clothes. Not wanting to be called “Fr.” though is very strange. None of this can I really say is outright heresy. The tone, however, was definitely laddened with red flags. Regardless, I will have a talk with my Deacon.

 

[Teelynn]

Thank you all so much for your wonderful (name removed by moderator)ut. Great idea that I hadn’t thought of to put together a seminar right here in our own Parish!..I will look into it with our Deacon in charge of Liturgy. And I will corner him at an opportune time which might even be this morning as there is a meeting at Church for all the ministers about that and the experience we had at the last seminar. I need to schedule about an hour or more with him. Fr. needs to be aware of the mindset of our “trainers” and the innuendos they put forth. We need solid truthful no bones about it catechizes, not the relativism that is still so prevalent in our Church.

I actually feel much better getting some solid thoughts from all of you…can’t thank you enough!

Blessings, Tee

 

[puzzleannie]

how was the rest of the content of the workshop? did it in fact offer proper training for EMHCs. My hunch is there were problems, or at least omissions there as well, and these are what you should focus on when you report to your pastor and bishop on why you cannot in good conscience send your people to the training. But it is the pastor’s decision, not yours, if they will be required to go… We also have a mandatory training but at any given time about 1/3 of our parishes refuse to participate in any such thing.

I informed the pastor my first year hear of my reservations about the catechist formation required by the diocese at that time, he agreed, and told me to come up with my own. We know have more options so it is less of a problem, and a lay ministry training institute that is orthodox, but as I say, simply because it is, some pastors refuse to participate on that ground. can’t please everybody so best to just teach truth

bottom line I modelled our parish formation on the basic formation class required of all lay ministers by the diocese in the new institute, and am in the process of being certified as an instructor for them, so our parish classes can be open to all in the diocese and “count” for those who need the class–catechists and all other lay ministries are supposed to begin their formation with this series. I think you are wise to see if this course is possible for you.

 

[thomas_jd]

how was the rest of the content of the workshop? did it in fact offer proper training for EMHCs. My hunch is there were problems, or at least omissions there as well, and these are what you should focus on when you report to your pastor and bishop on why you cannot in good conscience send your people to the training. But it is the pastor’s decision, not yours, if they will be required to go… We also have a mandatory training but at any given time about 1/3 of our parishes refuse to participate in any such thing.

I informed the pastor my first year hear of my reservations about the catechist formation required by the diocese at that time, he agreed, and told me to come up with my own. We know have more options so it is less of a problem, and a lay ministry training institute that is orthodox, but as I say, simply because it is, some pastors refuse to participate on that ground. can’t please everybody so best to just teach truth

bottom line I modelled our parish formation on the basic formation class required of all lay ministers by the diocese in the new institute, and am in the process of being certified as an instructor for them, so our parish classes can be open to all in the diocese and “count” for those who need the class–catechists and all other lay ministries are supposed to begin their formation with this series. I think you are wise to see if this course is possible for you.

This is the exact reason that we are in this dilemma. The laity, however well formed or intentioned, can instruct the class on “Procedures” , yet it is the pastors duty and obligation to teach the proper “Liturgical Background and instructions.”
Just as the poster had issues with the their instructor ,be assured that someone will develop the same attitude towards you. The instructors are normally sent from the Diocese!

I was in your position, I also formulated a program that was followed yet I will not teach this program.
He teaches and I assist.

 

[Spirithound]

Sorry to digress and be pedantic but…

you “infer” something from what someone else “implies”.

More on-topic, this course is (currently) required by your Archdiocese. So that means it’s really important that it gets done right. I think you are right to go to your Deacon, and through him to your Pastor. One of them can approach the priest-in-question on more of a level of equals. Keep in touch with your Deacon, and see what happens.