Trans Gender?

[The_Catholic]

Can someone please explain to me, with possibly Biblical and Church teachings, how trans gender is wrong? I’ve heard that if you are a male, and then switch to female by surgery, then you are now a female, or vice-versa, and it’s not a sin. This seems utterly wrong and sinful to me. Can anyone explain?

 

[mapleoak]

For one, you will not find biblical passages on trans-gender type issues as such, since it was not possible to switch genders back then, nor is it possible now. Surgery and hormones do not change someones gender. One has to look at the morality of self inflicted mutilation which is the real issue.

In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak

 

[nomolos]

I will have to do some reading but I believe in the old testament there was something to the fact that “that if you remove your sexual organs or if they are damage you can’t be part of the flock” or you have to live outside of the encampment, something to that extent, this is when Moses was receiving the laws and wandering the desert.

 

[pathia]

I will have to do some reading but I believe in the old testament there was something to the fact that “that if you remove your sexual organs or if they are damage you can’t be part of the flock” or you have to live outside of the encampment, something to that extent, this is when Moses was receiving the laws and wandering the desert.

Yes, but then there’s the following quotes from the New Testament on eunuchs.

“For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.” – Matthew 19:21

Eunuch, in the bible, seems much more broad than the modern word.

 

[The_Catholic]

So are there any statements made by Bishops or Popes speaking about trans genders? Because as of now people close to me have accepted it and think that if one “feels” female but is physicaly male, then inside they are female. And then they get the surgery done and should be called female because now they have the “parts.” These friends have accepted homosexuality as well and so desire me too, but I won’t. I will never turn away from God, I become utter lonely if I do. I love God and His Truth.

I know, I just know my friends are going to eventualy hate me because I believe what they’re doing is evil and wrong. I will not support their wedding, a male becoming female, and a female becoming male, and marrying one another. And when, or if I have children I do not want to teach them that homosexuality and trans gender is right.

I’m going to be cast aside, I just know it. They say they will not, but I believe they’re wrong.

Just stressed out. That comes with being a Christian I know.

 

[nomolos]

Yes, but then there’s the following quotes from the New Testament on eunuchs.

“For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.” – Matthew 19:21

Eunuch, in the bible, seems much more broad than the modern word.

Matt 19:21 speaks of of giving up worldly possesions. But I think you are refurring to when Jesus was speaking of marriage, I read something similar but it is the word marriage not eunuchs.

 

[Cari]

I’m going to be cast aside, I just know it. They say they will not, but I believe they’re wrong.

Just stressed out. That comes with being a Christian I know.

If you ARE cast out, then at least you’ll be in good company. Think of Our Lord in the garden, full of sorrow, sweating blood, taking on all of our sins onto his perfect soul, while his friends do what? Sleep.

Think of Our Lord being interrogated by the Jewish leaders, knowing full well the bitter road he’s to travel, while one of his friends is outside, doing what? Denying him.

We are created for companionship and love, and being cast aside hurts, but keep in mind that the “friendships” of this worldly kind are nothing compared to the Heavenly union we are invited to share.

 

[nomolos]

Can someone please explain to me, with possibly Biblical and Church teachings, how trans gender is wrong? I’ve heard that if you are a male, and then switch to female by surgery, then you are now a female, or vice-versa, and it’s not a sin. This seems utterly wrong and sinful to me. Can anyone explain?

Deuteronomy 23:2
No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose one penis has been cut off, may be admitted into the community of the Lord.

 

[pathia]

Matt 19:21 speaks of of giving up worldly possesions. But I think you are refurring to when Jesus was speaking of marriage, I read something similar but it is the word marriage not eunuchs.

Sorry, I’m mildly dyslexic, it’s 19:12, not 19:21

 

[CatholismRox]

God makes each every person, if you change that…Well yes, its a sin.

 

[stbruno]

We are made in his image and likeness…period.

He doesn’t make mistakes. We just translate his message by attempting to play God. More reasons to pray.

 

[LittleDeb]

So are there any statements made by Bishops or Popes speaking about trans genders? Because as of now people close to me have accepted it and think that if one “feels” female but is physicaly male, then inside they are female. And then they get the surgery done and should be called female because now they have the “parts.” These friends have accepted homosexuality as well and so desire me too, but I won’t. I will never turn away from God, I become utter lonely if I do. I love God and His Truth.

I know, I just know my friends are going to eventualy hate me because I believe what they’re doing is evil and wrong. I will not support their wedding, a male becoming female, and a female becoming male, and marrying one another. And when, or if I have children I do not want to teach them that homosexuality and trans gender is right.

I’m going to be cast aside, I just know it. They say they will not, but I believe they’re wrong.

Just stressed out. That comes with being a Christian I know.

Studying Theology of the Body might be a big help for you. I know it was for me.

First know that you are addressing two different types of problems that seem the same yet aren’t. There are people with disorders who want, for sexual gratification reasons, to be the opposite sex. On the other hand there are people who are one sex but appear to have attributes of the other. Both are called to chastity just like the rest of us. Currently both are also called to celibacy. The Church is huge and moves very slowly and very carefully. As these issues come to light, and a deeper understanding is developed, the Church will be able to help us differentiate between mutilation and corrective surgery. For those who are currently inter-sexed, corrective surgery may make it possible for them to consummate as their proper sex. But until the Church can articulate, through fallible human beings, about how to positively know the difference, She will lean on the side of caution and call all those affected to celibacy.

Current secular society wants to add more sexes to the mix. They want male, female, both and neither. Studying TOB (Theology of the Body) will help you to better understand masculinity and femininity and defend both. Secular society says masculine and feminine are pliable definitions that are defined as a result of being male and female, both or neither. The Church says the opposite. She says that male and female are the result of masculine and feminine. Hence God is masculine yet not male, and we are all feminine in our reception of Him.

I hope this helps.

 

[seekerz]

God makes each every person, if you change that…Well yes, its a sin.

We change things about ourselves all the time: a child born with a foot deformity has it corrected, a baby born with a heart abnormality has surgery… What would make it so wrong, if a child born with unclear sex (genitals not plainly male or female) to have corrective surgery, provided we have a good, moral guidelines on how to assign that child a particular gender? More importantly, if we left the child as he/she was born, how accepting would society be of a person who could not be assigned as a man or a woman?

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

We are made in his image and likeness…period.

He doesn’t make mistakes. We just translate his message by attempting to play God. More reasons to pray.

K.I.S.S. - Keep it simple silly.

I like this explanation so I have nothing more to add just a compliment to stbruno on a great response.

 

[mapleoak]

We change things about ourselves all the time: a child born with a foot deformity has it corrected, a baby born with a heart abnormality has surgery…

Here we are talking about correcting a defect, not changing a foot into a hand.

What would make it so wrong, if a child born with unclear sex (genitals not plainly male or female) to have corrective surgery, provided we have a good, moral guidelines on how to assign that child a particular gender? More importantly, if we left the child as he/she was born, how accepting would society be of a person who could not be assigned as a man or a woman?

Here again, the difference is in the correction of an abnormality. It is not the same as operating to change ones body to resemble that of the other gender. A person’s genetic makeup affects every cell of his body. An operation to change ones appearance does not change his cellular makeup from male to female nor vice/versa.
It amounts to nothing more than mutilation, as it is not performed to correct an abnormality.

In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak

 

[pathia]

Here we are talking about correcting a defect, not changing a foot into a hand.

Here again, the difference is in the correction of an abnormality. It is not the same as operating to change ones body to resemble that of the other gender. A person’s genetic makeup affects every cell of his body. An operation to change ones appearance does not change his cellular makeup from male to female nor vice/versa.
It amounts to nothing more than mutilation, as it is not performed to correct an abnormality.

In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak

Genetics can contradict. My chromosomes for example are XY, XX or XXY depending on which organs you test. Some women are XY, some men are XX.

Setting the line based on genetics is a dangerous precedent, because there are variations that violate every set rule. There are variations that violate every set rule over hormones, phenotype and genotype.

Setting such a line is why I have been made actively unwelcome in the church in over a decade.

 

[seekerz]

Here we are talking about correcting a defect, not changing a foot into a hand.

Here again, the difference is in the correction of an abnormality. It is not the same as operating to change ones body to resemble that of the other gender. A person’s genetic makeup affects every cell of his body. An operation to change ones appearance does not change his cellular makeup from male to female nor vice/versa.
It amounts to nothing more than mutilation, as it is not performed to correct an abnormality.

In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak

I’m talking about (and there are actual cases) where you can’t tell whether a baby is a boy or a girl because of abnormalities in the formation of the genitals (or rarely because they have the internal organs of both sexes). This may be accompanied by abnormalities in the genes which also make it difficult to assign sex. Do we create a separate class of people of indeterminate sex and would we be truly loving and accepting towards them?

 

[pathia]

I’m talking about (and there are actual cases) where you can’t tell whether a baby is a boy or a girl because of abnormalities in the formation of the genitals (or rarely because they have the internal organs of both sexes). This may be accompanied by abnormalities in the genes which also make it difficult to assign sex. Do we create a separate class of people of indeterminate sex and would we be truly loving and accepting towards them?

So far isolation is what I’ve received from the Church. I don’t consider myself a lapsed Catholic per say, but I am certainly not welcome at church and I am certainly not welcome in church activities. I am disallowed from marriage, disallowed from working with the church and seemingly not welcome in any church Mass as soon as my history is learned.

The church doesn’t seem to want me, or at least it’s members don’t. So my answer would be, as of right now the answer to your last question is a NO.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

So far isolation is what I’ve received from the Church. I don’t consider myself a lapsed Catholic per say, but I am certainly not welcome at church and I am certainly not welcome in church activities. I am disallowed from marriage, disallowed from working with the church and seemingly not welcome in any church Mass as soon as my history is learned.

The church doesn’t seem to want me, or at least it’s members don’t. So my answer would be, as of right now the answer to your last question is a NO.

I did not find in this thread any real clue as to the reason for this isolation. Is it something that you feel free to share?

Dan

 

[Holly3278]

It is wrong and that’s about all I can say.