Transalpine Redemptorists: Fr. Michael Mary CSSR addresses rumors

[Caesar]

Some of you may know that I have been posting about the Transalpine Redemptorists lately. They are an order of missionary monks refounded at the request of Msgr. Lefebvre and are still closely tied with the SSPX, and not recognized by Rome. In recent weeks there has been a flurry of rumors surrounding them after the superior, Fr. Michael Mary, issued a statement that his priests will be using the Good Friday Prayer for the Jews with the revisions of Pope Benedict XVI.

On another forum a poster issued a scathing critique of the Transalpine Redemptorists and made claims that Fr. Michael Mary was in negotiations with Rome (which this poster objects to). Father has since issued a rebuttal that, while unfortunately saying that the rumors are not true, gives us great hope for the future.

Since the response from Fr. Michael Mary is too long to post on these forums in full, here is a link to it from the Fish Eaters forums: Response to "William of Norwich"

I will also quote some parts of it below. Father has provided the text from the poster, known as “William of Norwich” in blue with his own reponses in black, which I have reproduced here. The bolded text has been added by me.

William continued: If this suggestion that they are going to rally to Rome is true, I will be most upset. My family has been a strong supporter of theirs since the earliest days.
William if you are an SSPX supporter, and also one of our supporters, you will know that the goal of our work has been carried out with our eyes turned towards Rome, right? How many times has Bishop Fellay gone to Rome and talked with the Roman authorities? What is he aiming at? I imagine it is what you would say was in order “to rally to Rome.” That is the eventual destination of the SSPX. It is ours as well. That is why you support us. It is all a question of time; am I right? **Because if I am wrong, and we are never supposed to come to the call of the colours, we are in grave error. **We are Catholics. We belong in humble submission to the Pope. All who wish to be saved must submit to the Roman Pontiff; that’s De Fide, right? Your family should be very unhappy if, after years of support, this whole thing we call ‘tradition’ doesn’t end up in full and perfect union with the Roman Pontiff. That’s what I am working for. That is also what I hope and believe Bishop Fellay is working for; and it is all a question of time.

…

William: What is the basis of having relations with Rome?
It is because we believe that Benedict XVI is the Pope, of course. He is the head of the Church. We are set upon working towards reunion. **If we remain in an ‘imperfect communion’ we will eventually become a separate organisation altogether. **
When I recall the day of the Consecrations in 1988 there were numbers of young children playing on the grass around the canvas cathedral. Do you know, now 20 years later, most of those girls and boys will be married. The 3rd generation of 1988 Tradis is on its way: that is, a generation that does not know normal Catholic life, that has no real contact with their juridical bishops, parishes and clergy. Already there are possibly 2 generations of people who are isolated from the Catholic ‘wheat and chaff’ that makes up a diocese. This is a serious situation unless we want to become a separate Church fitted out with our own bishops, parishes and clergy. We need a reconciliation asap.

…

Pope Benedict is the Vicar of Christ. Christ is God. So God wants it too: he has told us through his Vicar on earth. Does this sound Catholic?
William: But you should hold out longer. It’s too ‘precipitous.’
Here is where we could be turning ourselves into industrial trade unionists.** Is it Catholic to be ‘holding out’ against the Pope when he has clearly shown that he is doing everything possible to reach out to us? If Tradis become industrial trade unionists ‘holding out’ and raising the stakes we may well find that we have gone too far and are resisting the call of God Himself.**
You can go to hell in a lot of different ways William. You can go as a heretic. You can go with full Catholic orthodoxy. You will burn both ways. It doesn’t matter which way you do your ‘non serviam’, the choice is yours. Resist God long enough, (He is the Judge of how long he will put up with it.) and you will be a son of the devil whether you are orthodox catholic or heretic.
So the idea of ‘holding out for more from the Pope’ is not an idea that any of us should think is very appealing; only it does sound clever. **As the old French saying says so well: “Qui mange du pape meurt du pape –he who eats the Pope dies of the Pope.” In this case we would be considering eternal death and none of us knows how long he has got. **
So my frank assessment of trade unionist policies and practises is not high when the Pope himself is calling for reconciliation and fixing things up.
William: So you won’t be a trade unionist?
No, I won’t be a trade unionist against the will of the Pope. Up until now we have not been trade unionists. **We have been men of conscience ostracised by our own fellow Catholics and higher superiors because we clung to the ‘Faith of Our Fathers’ and the Holy Mass ‘in spite of dungeon fire and sword.’ **
In confused times we continued and happily we paid the price for it. But now Peter has spoken. He has spoken to all and he has spoken to us. The Vicar of Christ wants it known that the old Mass has never been abrogated. He demands that we be permitted to celebrate it freely. He says to us: ‘Our heart is open to you…’

 

[Caesar]

Qui mange du pape meurt du pape indeed!

I gotta remember that one

 

[I_Believe]

I wonder why this one isn’t getting any play ?

I went on over to the blog… papastronsay.blogspot.com/2008/03/reply-to-william-of-norwich.ht … and read the whole reply.

Fr. Michael Mary pretty much tells it like it is. He sets the record straight on a lot of things.

He writes
" You see, William, someone has to move. We can’t all sit making out there is still a war raging around us, or that the emperor has new clothes.
The fact is that we have the Mass vindicated by the Pope; he is trying to change other things quickly; and he is calling us back to himself.
Yes there are still problems about ecumenism and collegiality, but problems are not new to the Church we can battle through them if we have the Mass.
Sooner or later we must all heed the Pope’s call or become something different from Catholic.
Some people will fear and will be a long time learning to trust the Pope again; God is merciful and God may wait. Some are nearly ready to accept the Pope. A lot are edified with what he is trying to do. "

I pray all independent traditionalists will consider his words. He’s clearly stated his position.

And while he doesn’t speak for Bishop Felay, I’m sure he is accurate in his assessment of the SSPX situation.

Felay is in a tough spot. He wants to return, and he wants to bring the SSPX with him. But as Fr Michael Mary explained, Felay has a lot of clergy and faithful who are hesitant. He’s having to deal with Rome who he stood up against, and at the same time, the catholics he stood up FOR. Wow.

Thanks for posting this Caesar. I hope others will read the whole reply and comment.

 

[Caesar]

I pray all independent traditionalists will consider his words. He’s clearly stated his position.

And while he doesn’t speak for Bishop Felay, I’m sure he is accurate in his assessment of the SSPX situation.

Felay is in a tough spot. He wants to return, and he wants to bring the SSPX with him. But as Fr Michael Mary explained, Felay has a lot of clergy and faithful who are hesitant. He’s having to deal with Rome who he stood up against, and at the same time, the catholics he stood up FOR. Wow.

Thanks for posting this Caesar. I hope others will read the whole reply and comment.

The Transalpine Redemptorists, from what I know of them, are simply amazing. If they can preach like the Redemptorists of the old days, even the likes of Cardinal Mahony can be converted by their words!

 

[Sure]

If we remain in an ‘imperfect communion’ we will eventually become a separate organisation altogether.

This is a very interesting quote. It seems to be quite a departure from the typical SSPX line that “Rome is in error and we are fine until they come around.” I mean, what is it that makes Fr. Michael Mary think that unless they get this resolved soon they will cease to be a part of the Church?

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

This is a very interesting quote. It seems to be quite a departure from the typical SSPX line that “Rome is in error and we are fine until they come around.” I mean, what is it that makes Fr. Michael Mary think that unless they get this resolved soon they will cease to be a part of the Church?

Common sense?

 

[Sure]

Yes, but it doesn’t exactly support those who run around declaring “there is no schism” when the Church has clearly declared that there is. Fr. Michael Mary knows this needs to get fixed or they will just become another protestant “organization.”

 

[GerardP]

This is a very interesting quote. It seems to be quite a departure from the typical SSPX line that “Rome is in error and we are fine until they come around.” I mean, what is it that makes Fr. Michael Mary think that unless they get this resolved soon they will cease to be a part of the Church?

That is not the “typical SSPX line.” Anyone who has ever really bothered to listen to the bishops or any number of priests in the SSPX knows that they are struggling and heartbroken over both the state of the Church and the situation that they are in.

Archbishop LeFebvre had hoped the irregular status of the SSPX would be resolved within 5 years.

Bishop Tissier de Malareis was interviewed last year and bitterly complained that it had been 18 years of struggle and he was personally frustrated.

Bishop Williamson for years has warned people that “The Society is not the Church” “Only a Pope can fix this situation short of Divine Intervention.” “Don’t put your whole faith in the Society or in Bishop Williamson, both can become corrupted.”

Bishop Fellay always points towards Rome. When Eastern Orthodox prelates approached him about converting to Catholicism. He sent them to Rome to seek proper incardination.

When Rome finally wants to stop talking about canonical regularization first and doctrine second, and they are willing to discuss doctrine first and then find a solution for the canonical situation, the SSPX will be first in line.

 

[GerardP]

Yes, but it doesn’t exactly support those who run around declaring “there is no schism” when the Church has clearly declared that there is.

Yeah but the problem is, that there is no schism. Schism means something. And it doesn’t apply to the SSPX or the associated groups. Your unwillingness to use specific language is the real problem. Blanket terms like “the Church” and “clearly” are just used to gloss over the truth.

Fr. Michael Mary knows this needs to get fixed or they will just become another protestant “organization.”

“Or they will become…” Means that they are not. That does not mean that they are not in danger of separating themselves. It is just a different danger from the conservatives and liberals who run the risk of apostasy by believing Vatican II actually was a worthwhile council and not a terrible mistake.

 

[I_Believe]

The Transalpine Redemptorists, from what I know of them, are simply amazing. If they can preach like the Redemptorists of the old days, even the likes of Cardinal Mahony can be converted by their words!

We had a Redemptorist Missionary visit a couple of weeks ago and speak at St Martin of Tours parish after the gospel of the Sunday TLM.

He had my full attention. He packed so much into such a brief talk. Similar to our good member Brotherolf’s sharing of his being there through all the ruckus of the last 40 years or so.

But coming form a priest who was there. He didn’t get emotional or passionate, and he stopped short of endorsing the VII reforms or praising Tradition. All I can say is, I was listening to a man who was raised, and ordained, before the first tinkerings to the liturgy.

His focus was on the no practicing Roman Catholics, who stopped attending Mass or even lost the faith altogether since VII.
He talked of various reasons some left. The new Mass, etc

But he didn’t blame VII for anything at all. He just noted that Roman Catholics have lived in confusion in the years since.
And he stressed that this confusion is a great test of our Faith as Roman Catholics.

Anyway, as I said he had my full attention. I had never thought of viewing the mess as a test of faith. I wish he would have had more time to continue. He did have three 2 hr evening sessions, but I had to work.

I’m not very articulate, especialy when paraprhasing from memory a talk that packed so much into so few words. I know they used to do a webcast of theTLM Mass every Sunday at St Martin. Una Voce links to it on their site. I’ll search a bit and see if that Mass was taped with audio and archived. If I find it, I’ll post a link.

BTW, His name is Fr Dave Tobin C.SS.R. I couldn’t find much on him when I googled it. I do know he visits 50 parishes a year, for the last 40+ years.

And he does live in Ca, so you may have something there regarding Mahony lol. 50 parishes a year. Figure one a week. That leaves two weeks. Perhaps he’s been going home to Ca., and devoting those two weeks a year for the last 40 working on Mahony ?

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

If you haven’t watched this documentary about the Transalpine monks of Papa Stronsay, you’ve missed something.

youtube.com/watch?v=d20nzljVYPM

 

[lionel]

Hello Father,
Can you shed some light on why the seminarians were removed from the Seminary in Australia. I am saddened to think that a separation between the Redemptorists and the SSPX is evolving. Where will the seminarians go?
God Bless you Father and your wonderful work
Lionel

 

[Like]

Hello Father,
Can you shed some light on why the seminarians were removed from the Seminary in Australia. I am saddened to think that a separation between the Redemptorists and the SSPX is evolving. Where will the seminarians go?
God Bless you Father and your wonderful work
Lionel

Lionel, who are you addressing this to? There is no priest posting in this thread.

 

[lionel]

Oops sorry, 1st time writter to catholic forum, I guess anyone can answer. If the semimarians leave the seminary where will they go to get traditional training? The SSPX and the Redemptorists are friends, maybe things are changing. Does anyone else sense this
Lionel

 

[I_Believe]

Hi Lionel, Welcome to CA. We can’t really discuss this right now, because SSPX discussions are suspended until May 2nd.

See post # 37 here…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=219030&page=2

Feel free to ask again on or after May 2nd. Keep posting on other topics though

To everyone: please respect the OP and wait until May 2nd to comment so that the thread will not be locked.

 

[Like]

Oops sorry, 1st time writter to catholic forum, I guess anyone can answer. If the semimarians leave the seminary where will they go to get traditional training? The SSPX and the Redemptorists are friends, maybe things are changing. Does anyone else sense this
Lionel

Hi Lionel, no need to apologize, I just thought you knew something or someone I didn’t.
BTW, welcome to CA forums!
God Bless!