Transgender child and parents

[SwizzleStick]

If a woman is born with a penis and mistakenly assigned male at birth, then it isn’t really “changing” the gender so much as it is correcting the original mistaken assignment.
feed me;9401330:

Is that truely even possible without surgery?

Even then it isn’t possible. Surgery to mutilate genitalia and taking hormones will not change someone’s sex.

 

[SwizzleStick]

How do you know what his real species is? It’s not like you could test his DNA, or anything like that. Obviously he must be sane, because he can hold down a job.

Maybe he is sane enough to hold down a job, but he certainly has issues.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Exactly. A man is a man and a woman is a woman, period. To say that we need to fix a mistake is to say that God doesn’t know what he is doing. We are all called to carry our cross, whatever that may be. Our cross may be pornography, alcohol, or thinking we are the opposite sex. We pray and carry on just as our Lord did.

Yes.

Surgery is sometimes necessary. Sometimes a baby is born with a birth issue so that it is hard to determine what sex he or she is at birth. Testing would determine the answer so that surgery could be performed to correct the issue and go on from there. But, some want to mutilate a perfectly healthy body and pump it full of hormones so that some can live as the opposite sex. I think that that is a mental health issue and needs to be addressed as such.

 

[SwizzleStick]

There is no long and documented history of people thinking they are cats. In contrast, there is a long and documented history of gender non-conformists. The population of such “cat-people” is probably not above a dozen in all of history, whereas there are millions of gender variant people living today, across all cultures. There is no documented diagnosis of trans-speciesism. Transsexualism has been diagnosed in Western culture for over a hundred years. It is unfair to substitute such behavior with the established medical condition of intergender (transsexuality). That would be similar to me holding up the Quran and judging Catholics by it, since both are religions.

Fair enough, I guess. I have to agree that it is highly unlikely that more than a few folks that have ever lived have wanted to be cats.

Even so, mental health issues appear to be involved in those cases and “gender variant” cases too.

 

[Jordan719]

Yes.

Surgery is sometimes necessary. Sometimes a baby is born with a birth issue so that it is hard to determine what sex he or she is at birth. Testing would determine the answer so that surgery could be performed to correct the issue and go on from there. But, some want to mutilate a perfectly healthy body and pump it full of hormones so that some can live as the opposite sex. I think that that is a mental health issue and needs to be addressed as such.

Amen.

 

[Viviphilia]

You seem to have this idea that the theories of psychiatry define the physical world and that a patient’s self-assessment can be known to true when it makes the patient feel validated.

You appear to be generalizing my views about a specific condition, which is well established in the medical literature, as if they apply to all subjective beliefs. I am not by any stretch of the imagination claiming that whatever a person believes or relates as his subjective experience is necessarily true. Humans are frequently wrong about their beliefs.

It is a matter of fact that there are recognizable patterns of gender variance which exist in Humans. CAIS and 5-ARD syndrome are examples. While those conditions can be verified in the lab, it does appear that some types of gender variance, such as male to female transsexuality, appear to be verifiable only through subjective interpretation. How is that different from our understanding of schizophrenia, which is also only verifiable through subjective means? Do you not believe in schizophrenia?

Diagnosis of childhood schizophrenia is often delayed due to a lack of objective measures and reliance on subjective verifiability. Schizophrenic children are frequently treated as having an “active imagination” or as liars. One thing schizophrenics and transgender people have in common is that they have some of the highest rates of suicidality in our culture. I suspect that is due to the invalidating environments which Marsha Linehan talks about in the development of borderline personality disorder, another group with extremely high suidicality. How terrifying it must be to have hallucinations and have no idea whats going on and no adults to believe you. When adults invalidate the subjective experiences of childhood schizophrenics, those children frequently end up killing themselves.

I am not suggesting that every subjective experience a person has should be validated. What I am suggesting is that in high risk populations, such as transgenders, schizophrenics, and BPDs, invalidation appears to increase the risk of suicidality. Decent, moral people should try their best to be compassionate towards those groups of people who show symptoms of those disorders. Using a preferred pronoun seems like a small thing to ask given the consequences of invalidation. “Indulging” such a person, even if you don’t sincerely believe their subjective experiences, can be a matter of life or death.

To be clear, I certainly believe that there is a physical component in male to female transsexuality, just as CAIS has a physical component.

You are saying that it is impossible that a person who has difficulty because they do not feel typical of what is a societally-narrowed description of what their own gender ought to be, could possibly seek relief in the incorrect belief that they actually are the wrong gender?

No, I am saying that male to female transsexuals really do have the wrong body and their correct gender is in their brain. Why is that so difficult to imagine? Is it because we live in a male-centric culture?

There is such a thing as a true physical gender. There is such a thing as a gender identity. You are saying that when the two do not match, the solution is to use hormones and surgery to allow the pretense to be made that the physical gender was wrong and has been “fixed”–only you are saying that this is no pretense, that a real gender switch has been accomplished!

What I am saying is that determining sex and gender is not nearly as easy to determine as most people assume. In my experience, the easiest way to evaluate another person is to go with whatever the person says. That isn’t always easy. It doesn’t follow from that position that I would then believe that the “cat-man” is really a cat. Gender variance has a long history and exists across all cultures. A person believing he is a cat is a publicity stunt.

The Church is saying that even if you use hormomes and surgery to give the patient relief from their symptoms, you have not magically changed their physical gender.

You’re referring to a super-secret classified document which might not even exist. The Church isn’t saying anything public about this issue because they are smart enough to know that the debate is ongoing.

He was born a male and that is what he is.

Exactly how do you know what she was born as or what she is now? Why not be charitable and give her the benefit of the doubt?

If he is not pretending, then I don’t see how what he’s doing is not a form of suicide. Certainly he is trying to erase every vestige of his past self, trying to make everyone pretend he is not a man and has never been a boy. That person is going to be treated as if dead to him, dead to his family, dead to his children. This is not supposed to cause psychic harm to anyone who knew this man who is being taken off the face of the earth?

Suicide? Why such drama? She’s not dead, she’s just changing her gender expression. It’s not that big of a deal.

Perhaps our problem is that we start from such different axioms that we are just not going to agree.

Well, perhaps if we keep talking, we will find some agreement.

 

[Viviphilia]

How do you know what his real species is? It’s not like you could test his DNA, or anything like that. Obviously he must be sane, because he can hold down a job.

Morphological methods were used for species identification for more than a century before molecular methods were used. You can tell just by looking at him that he is a Human. He doesn’t seem sane to me, but I don’t know the person. And yes, I realize you’re making a joke at my expense. I’m quite familiar with that kind of behavior.

 

[Viviphilia]

Exactly. A man is a man and a woman is a woman, period.

Except for CAIS individuals, and those suffering from 5-ARD syndrome.

Do these women, who were all born with vaginas, look like men to you?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Orchids01.JPG

 

[EasterJoy]

Yes.

Surgery is sometimes necessary. Sometimes a baby is born with a birth issue so that it is hard to determine what sex he or she is at birth. Testing would determine the answer so that surgery could be performed to correct the issue and go on from there. But, some want to mutilate a perfectly healthy body and pump it full of hormones so that some can live as the opposite sex. I think that that is a mental health issue and needs to be addressed as such.

Although surgical intervention to give a person reproductive organs that function in the typical fashion isn’t wrong, in an ideal world, it would also be deemed OK to simply have an atypical gender, too.

I think that is the root problem. There is such a huge mental burden put onto people who are atypical to try to fit into the mold of what is typical that they feel driven to seek medical treatment not to be themselves, but to become typical or to come as close as possible to an idealized type. That is what transgendered people are trying to do: become what they cannot be because because the alternative is a single narrow mold that they also cannot shove themselves into. Those two alternatives have to be all there is?

It bothers me that people with gender identity issues have to try to “pass”. It is one thing to choose to wear contacts instead of glasses, but what would it say if people who wore contacts had to hide the fact? A goal based on deceit…how can that be healthy, let alone right? I think there must be a way to have gender roles without making them so strict that a person who doesn’t fit them feels as if they have to go to these lengths to take a form fashioned by divine hands and force it to fit a mold built by human surgical hands.

 

[Viviphilia]

Fair enough, I guess. I have to agree that it is highly unlikely that more than a few folks that have ever lived have wanted to be cats.

Even so, mental health issues appear to be involved in those cases and “gender variant” cases too.

Assuming you are a cis male, imagine that you were raised as a female, forced to wear dresses and display feminine behavior. You’d have mental health issues too.

 

[Viviphilia]

Although surgical intervention to give a person reproductive organs that function in the typical fashion isn’t wrong, in an ideal world, it would also be deemed OK to simply have an atypical gender, too.

I think that is the root problem. There is such a huge mental burden put onto people who are atypical to try to fit into the mold of what is typical that they feel driven to seek medical treatment not to be themselves, but to become typical or to come as close as possible to an idealized type. That is what transgendered people are trying to do: become what they cannot be because because the alternative is a single narrow mold that they also cannot shove themselves into. Those two alternatives have to be all there is?

It bothers me that people with gender identity issues have to try to “pass”. It is one thing to choose to wear contacts instead of glasses, but what would it say if people who wore contacts had to hide the fact? A goal based on deceit…how can that be healthy, let alone right? I think there must be a way to have gender roles without making them so strict that a person who doesn’t fit them feels as if they have to go to these lengths to take a form fashioned by divine hands and force it to fit a mold built by human surgical hands.

I believe you are wise to have reached that set of conclusions. If I may suggest a book which expands on those ideas of gender tolerance - please consider reading Whipping Girl, by Julia Serano.

I do have a slight disagreement. There are transgender people who are happy to be atypical, but that isn’t always the case. When I was younger, I rejected gender concepts all together and I considered myself genderless. As I got older, I realized that I value gender roles. I don’t value the narrow gender stereotypes which society often strictly enforces. I no longer consider myself atypical or genderless. I consider myself a woman with a sex-development disorder.

Also, I don’t have to try to “pass.” I am frequently read as a woman with no more effort than shaving my face. I don’t even wear makeup. I sympathize with transsexuals who have to make an effort to pass, it must be difficult. It seems uncharitable to assume they are trying to deceive, when they are merely trying to express themselves as they feel is proper. Assuming you shave your face, are you trying to deceive anyone into thinking that you are a woman? Of course not. Men who shave their faces are merely expressing themselves. It doesn’t matter that having a beard is a masculine trait and having a smooth face is a feminine trait. In her book, Serano talks about the mistaken assumption that transsexuals are trying to deceive anyone.

 

[feed_me]

Except for CAIS individuals, and those suffering from 5-ARD syndrome.

Do these women, who were all born with vaginas, look like men to you?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Orchids01.JPG

The one in the green shirt and the black shirt are definatly cute, expecially the one in the black .

Even then it isn’t possible. Surgery to mutilate genitalia and taking hormones will not change someone’s sex.

What I ment and I do hope I asked the right question, was that is it possible for a women to be born with male parts instead of female parts… down there, but be full feminate everywhere else like … have a feminate supermodel body, but have junk in the trunk down there instead of the female parts?

 

[EasterJoy]

Morphological methods were used for species identification for more than a century before molecular methods were used. You can tell just by looking at him that he is a Human. He doesn’t seem sane to me, but I don’t know the person. And yes, I realize you’re making a joke at my expense. I’m quite familiar with that kind of behavior.

“That kind of behavior”? What kind of behavior is that, pointing out that you’re not being internally consistent about what does and does not give a person his or her identity?

Yes, you are not being consistent. You are inconsistent about how biological classification is done, you’re inconsistent about whether biological fact or self-definition is what determines identity, and to be blunt, you’re being inconsistent about what makes a person sane or not. I suspect that you’re doing it because to be consistent threatens a belief system that gives you a lot of comfort. Let a Catholic do that, and I think you’ll be just about as consistent in terms of how basic a belief system is.

When Christians try to impose their belief systems on you, you cry bloody murder. Then you turn around and tell the rest of us that if we don’t think your gender can be determined by methods that have been used for identification for far far more than a century, we’re a bunch of ignorant morons.

I believe you are wise to have reached that set of conclusions. If I may suggest a book which expands on those ideas of gender tolerance - please consider reading Whipping Girl, by Julia Serano.

I do have a slight disagreement. There are transgender people who are happy to be atypical, but that isn’t always the case. When I was younger, I rejected gender concepts all together and I considered myself genderless. As I got older, I realized that I value gender roles. I don’t value the narrow gender stereotypes which society often strictly enforces. I no longer consider myself atypical or genderless. I consider myself a woman with a sex-development disorder.

Also, I don’t have to try to “pass.” I am frequently read as a woman with no more effort than shaving my face. I don’t even wear makeup. I sympathize with transsexuals who have to make an effort to pass, it must be difficult. It seems uncharitable to assume they are trying to deceive, when they are merely trying to express themselves as they feel is proper. Assuming you shave your face, are you trying to deceive anyone into thinking that you are a woman? Of course not. Men who shave their faces are merely expressing themselves. It doesn’t matter that having a beard is a masculine trait and having a smooth face is a feminine trait. In her book, Serano talks about the mistaken assumption that transsexuals are trying to deceive anyone.

It may be uncharitable to assume I’d not be tempted to do the same thing, but using terminology like “pass” is their wording, not mine. There are also transsexuals who encourage other people to get interested in them romantically when they know the target of their affections would find their efforts deceptive. I don’t know how you make that out to be other than what it is.

The mayor of Silverton, Oregon, is a cross-dresser. He’s had surgical breast implants. He expresses himself by dressing in clothing and getting surgical that is typical for women, but he doesn’t try to make anyone believe he is a woman. So obviously it is possible to express yourself in terms of cosmetic appearance without pretending that you have a physical gender other than what you have.

 

[EasterJoy]

OK, so…back to the OPs actual question.

If nothing else, the heated discussions here show that if your mother is ever going to come around at all to the idea that you are truly changing your gender to what you are convinced it really is, it will almost certainly take her some time to get her head around the idea that even you believe this. What I think is besides the point, but you see what kind of resistance you’re going to run into by trying to “win by argument”. If two people start with different axioms about the nature of truth and identity, all the argument in the world is not going to change their minds. You can explain yourself to each other, you can expect each other to hear what you’re saying, but expecting that anyone will change their minds once everyone understands each other’s position is not realistic. Could it happen? Yes. Should you expect that as your Plan A? No. So…explain, but at some point decide you’ve explained what you’re going to explain, and let it be. Don’t enter into arguments that will never end. You’ll have this treatment done, or you won’t: she can’t control that. She’ll see things as you do or she won’t: you can’t control that. You can survive and love each other through all of that. I’ll try to say what I would say to her as much as to you.

The best place to be through this is to accept that you will each probably react with sadness at the other’s notions. Accept that as your most likely (although not inevitable!) starting point. This is not likely to be easy, no matter what happens. You can get through whole and entire, no matter what happens. Reactions are what you get when you react, but responses are chosen, and responses are where you do have control. You can choose to accept that neither of you will be where you are forever, and decide to be good to your family in the meantime. You can encourage them to do the same. Give in to each other, try to do what you can to avoid upsetting each other, join together in what you can still join in doing, make an effort to let go of what is not in your control, make an ongoing effort not to take it personally when someone you love deeply lives against what you think is true, and keep reiterating that your love for each other is not conditional upon reaching agreement. Get ready for this to be a time with its difficulties, but know that difficult times do not last forever. Even if nothing ever “changes,” there gets to be a point where coping becomes something you’ve learned how to do without the exclusion of enjoying life and each other. You can’t control other people, but you can be happy and faithful to the good within a world and family that are not in your control.

Even when someone makes a choice that everyone is eventually going to accept, realize that while you were coming gradually around to where you are, your family was either oblivious or in denial. You had to take your time, allow that they will have to take their time. That is probably your best bet.

If you were my son, OP, I’d try to talk you out of this. If you were my son, however, you could try to find a surgeon to help you become a tigress from Mars, and it would not change one bit that I love you and want the best for you. I know that my sons and I will not always see eye to eye about what each other ought to do in this life. I hope I’d not get hysterical, but I would hope you’d accept that whatever reaction I’d give in to, it would be because whatever you do, I care, and I care very deeply. Whatever your mom says or does, give her room, as you’d hope she’ll give you, to do her best to be true to herself. You’re a grown now, an adult. You can get through this, even when it is hard.

No matter what you do, too, God loves you, and understands you better than you understand yourself. The Father loved both the son who ran off and gave himself over to the pigs and the son who hardened his heart in his idea that he was sticking to what was right. Know that on the most basic level, then, you are most profoundly acceptable to God and loved by God. Hang in there, and avoid any catastrophic thinking. Sufficient to each day is its own trouble. Live one day at a time, live in the love of God, and hang in there.

 

[Viviphilia]

“That kind of behavior”? What kind of behavior is that, pointing out that you’re not being internally consistent about what does and does not give a person his or her identity?

Yes, you are not being consistent. You are inconsistent about how biological classification is done, you’re inconsistent about whether biological fact or self-definition is what determines identity, and to be blunt, you’re being inconsistent about what makes a person sane or not. I suspect that you’re doing it because to be consistent threatens a belief system that gives you a lot of comfort. Let a Catholic do that, and I think you’ll be just about as consistent in terms of how basic a belief system is.

When Christians try to impose their belief systems on you, you cry bloody murder. Then you turn around and tell the rest of us that if we don’t think your gender can be determined by methods that have been used for identification for far far more than a century, we’re a bunch of ignorant morons.

You’re putting all kinds of words in my mouth which I never said. As a matter of fact, I complimented your wisdom in my last post. I apologize if I seem inconsistent. Gender variance can be a very confusing topic. It isn’t very fair for you to make fun of me about it, and then put words in my mouth.

It may be uncharitable to assume I’d not be tempted to do the same thing, but using terminology like “pass” is their wording, not mine. There are also transsexuals who encourage other people to get interested in them romantically when they know the target of their affections would find their efforts deceptive. I don’t know how you make that out to be other than what it is.

The mayor of Silverton, Oregon, is a cross-dresser. He’s had surgical breast implants. He expresses himself by dressing in clothing and getting surgical that is typical for women, but he doesn’t try to make anyone believe he is a woman. So obviously it is possible to express yourself in terms of cosmetic appearance without pretending that you have a physical gender other than what you have.

Actually, if you read that Serano book I mentioned, you will learn that the word “pass” comes from the gay community and is not embraced by the trans community. Transgender people are forced to try to “pass” so we don’t get killed by bigots.

I’m not a cross dresser. I’m a trans woman, and I only say trans because it is a colloquialism for my disorder. As I keep saying, try wearing women’s clothes and acting like a woman for a single week. You can’t do it, despite the wisdom you expressed about gender tolerance. Yet I do it regularly and feel perfectly natural doing it. Once you try it and think about why you can’t do it, you’ll begin to understand my position. It’s because you know you’re a man, just as I know I’m a woman, despite the developmental flaws in my body.

This cannot be a delusion because I was in denial about my identity for years until I learned it was simply a medical disorder. Quite the opposite of a delusion, it was the overwhelming evidence that forced me into my current belief. I resisted it with all my power, but could no longer deny the facts of my identity. It isn’t my mind that has the problem, it’s my body. Feel free to convince me otherwise, I welcome the debate. All I ask is that you please not put words in my mouth, which tends to make discussion pointless.

 

[Viviphilia]

When Christians try to impose their belief systems on you, you cry bloody murder. Then you turn around and tell the rest of us that if we don’t think your gender can be determined by methods that have been used for identification for far far more than a century, we’re a bunch of ignorant morons.

I never said any such thing. In my last post, I complimented your wisdom.

It may be uncharitable to assume I’d not be tempted to do the same thing, but using terminology like “pass” is their wording, not mine. There are also transsexuals who encourage other people to get interested in them romantically when they know the target of their affections would find their efforts deceptive. I don’t know how you make that out to be other than what it is.

The mayor of Silverton, Oregon, is a cross-dresser. He’s had surgical breast implants. He expresses himself by dressing in clothing and getting surgical that is typical for women, but he doesn’t try to make anyone believe he is a woman. So obviously it is possible to express yourself in terms of cosmetic appearance without pretending that you have a physical gender other than what you have.

heilotes and me aren’t cross dressers, we’re transgender. If you want to understand the difference, try wearing women’s clothes and behave like a woman for a full week, all day. I guarantee you won’t be able to do it. Yet I do it naturally, and I’m sure heilotes will too. That’s just how we are. You know you’re a man, and I know I’m a woman, despite the flaws in my genitals. If people feel deceived, then perhaps they should not have made assumptions.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I never said any such thing. In my last post, I complimented your wisdom.

heilotes and me aren’t cross dressers, we’re transgender. If you want to understand the difference, try wearing women’s clothes and behave like a woman for a full week, all day. I guarantee you won’t be able to do it. Yet I do it naturally, and I’m sure heilotes will too. That’s just how we are. You know you’re a man, and I know I’m a woman, despite the flaws in my genitals. If people feel deceived, then perhaps they should not have made assumptions.

Perhaps some of us did a dare just like that for almost a month, but had to stop because they were liking it too much and were starting to consider doing it indefinitely…

 

[EasterJoy]

I never said any such thing. In my last post, I complimented your wisdom.

heilotes and me aren’t cross dressers, we’re transgender. If you want to understand the difference, try wearing women’s clothes and behave like a woman for a full week, all day. I guarantee you won’t be able to do it. Yet I do it naturally, and I’m sure heilotes will too. That’s just how we are. You know you’re a man, and I know I’m a woman, despite the flaws in my genitals. If people feel deceived, then perhaps they should not have made assumptions.

You weren’t complimenting me on my wisdom when I expressed scepticism about the current state of thought in the practice of psychology.

You have me wrong. I know you’re a man, and I know I’m a woman. I do not like high heels, but I’m sure I could survive in them for a week if I had to. I could also stand to wear a necktie and sit with my knees far apart and then come home and wear shorts without concerning myself that I haven’t shaved my legs in a week. If good grooming didn’t require me to remove the hairs from my upper lip, that would be a relief. I have had to wear uniforms, I’ve worn clothes different from other people, it doesn’t bother me that much. If I went around wearing men’s clothing, I wouldn’t care that somebody mistook me for a man. It would bother me to spend a week actively trying to mislead people about my gender identity. I would have to have a good reason to reconcile myself with such a deception.

It is disengenous to dress like a woman, act like a woman, and do everything you can to disguise the fact that you are physically a man (like obscuring your Adam’s apple and the bulge in your pants) and then say, “If people feel deceived, then perhaps they should not have made assumptions.” It’s not as if you’re being taken as a woman because you chose a pink shirt with lace on it! You’re going out of your way to make sure that as many people as possible *do *make those assumptions!! You’re going to turn around and tell them it is their fault that they fell for your carefully orchestrated pretenses?

You say that “a person believing he is a cat is a publicity stunt”. You get surgery to look like a woman, and that is an expression of your identity. He gets a revelation, has his mouth surgically altered, and you say it is a publicity stunt and that he’s probably not sane. I don’t get where you are being consistent.

You say, “Humans are frequently wrong about their beliefs”, but you reject the idea that you could be wrong about yours. I think you have a lot invested in this, and you don’t want to face the idea that you’re living according to what may be a psychiatric treatment fad–also a human phenomenon with a long history. Fine, but why not let him be invested in his quest for identity? Why is this psycho-surgical bandwagon only for transgenders?

IOW: You’ve not been called a freak enough times in your life to refrain from going after the Cat Man? What’s he ever done to you?

 

[gardenswithkids]

…But if you feel like you need to tell me I’m wrong, I’m willing to accept that possibility and welcome challenge to my beliefs and ideas as if they can not withstand test, then I need to rethink them. …

First and foremost, you are a human being. So am I. Right now I’m sitting in my living room barefoot, wearing shorts and a t-shirt, no make-up and wih my hair pulled back in a pony-tail. What makes me a woman isn’t the clothing, the make-up or even the hair. I still know that I’m a woman when in jeans and a t-shirt with no make-up, so by the same logic who you are isn’t dependent on the clothes you wear.

Can you wear gender neutral clothing to wear instead of wearing what our culture recognizes to be women’s clothing? It would be far less upsetting to your mother and many of us who share her views, but who you are on the inside wouldn’t change.

You are so much more than the clothes that you wear! You have suffered a serious brain injury, and you carry a heavy cross. Believe me, it’s hard to carry a heavy crosses in high heals! You do not need women’s clothing to be who you are.

 

[Viviphilia]

You weren’t complimenting me on my wisdom when I expressed scepticism about the current state of thought in the practice of psychology.

My compliment was about your personality in general. I stand by that comment.

You have me wrong. I know you’re a man, and I know I’m a woman.

I apologize for misgendering you and I forgive you for misgendering me.

It would bother me to spend a week actively trying to mislead people about my gender identity. I would have to have a good reason to reconcile myself with such a deception.

It’s no where near the same thing for a cis woman to behave like a man. My challenge does not apply to you. And again, my apologies for misgendering you.

It is disengenous to dress like a woman, act like a woman, and do everything you can to disguise the fact that you are physically a man (like obscuring your Adam’s apple and the bulge in your pants) and then say, “If people feel deceived, then perhaps they should not have made assumptions.” It’s not as if you’re being taken as a woman because you chose a pink shirt with lace on it! You’re going out of your way to make sure that as many people as possible *do *make those assumptions!! You’re going to turn around and tell them it is their fault that they fell for your carefully orchestrated pretenses?

Since I am a woman, my behavior is not disingenuous. And, no, I don’t go out of my way. I don’t wear makeup or pink clothes or high heels. Why do you continue to make false assumptions, such as your comment about my Adam’s apple? I have no need to obscure my Adam’s apple because it can hardly be seen. You seem to have some stereotypical image of a trans woman in your mind and you are projecting your assumptions on to me. Please stop that kind of prejudice.

You say that “a person believing he is a cat is a publicity stunt”. You get surgery to look like a woman, and that is an expression of your identity. He gets a revelation, has his mouth surgically altered, and you say it is a publicity stunt and that he’s probably not sane. I don’t get where you are being consistent.

You say, “Humans are frequently wrong about their beliefs”, but you reject the idea that you could be wrong about yours. I think you have a lot invested in this, and you don’t want to face the idea that you’re living according to what may be a psychiatric treatment fad–also a human phenomenon with a long history. Fine, but why not let him be invested in his quest for identity? Why is this psycho-surgical bandwagon only for transgenders?

I have never gotten any surgery to look like a woman. Please stop making false assumptions about me. As I have already explained, gender variance is well established in history and across all cultures. Millions of transgender people are alive today. It is totally unfair to try and compare that to one person pretending to be a cat. There is no “bandwagon” for cat-people.

I have never rejected the idea that I could be wrong about my beliefs. That is yet another false assumption of yours.

I can’t remember the last time anyone called me a freak. I’m actually pretty normal. I doubt that “Cat Man” cares what anyone else thinks of him.