Transgenderism and Rape-By-Deception

[Rau]

I think the situation is a bit far-fetched. If you meet a ‘nice looking’ ‘woman’, surely before one married her, you would realise if it was really a bloke in makeup or whatever.

Would anyone ever really fall in love with a ‘drag queen’? (Whether they call themselves a transvestite, transgender, or whatever, it’s the same thing). It is not merely the clothes that make a person be a man or a woman, but its the whole physiology, and indeed, a certain ontological quality.

If a transvestite went to the extreme length of marrying another man, under deception- what would they expect to happen? It would be a very bad situation, but I doubt if it’s ever happened.

Yes the scenario is far-fetched. But at least one response is way more far-fetched.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

If you knew you could not father/mother children with your spouse, is it ethical to withhold that fact prior to marriage? Of course it’s unethical. One’s history as transgendered is patently information owed to a future spouse and to withhold it amounts to a serious deception on an issue foreseeable relevant to the partners decision to marry.

Unethical? Of course. The moral equivalent of rape? Only if anyone who withholds information that they cannot father/mother children in order to secure someone’s hand in marriage, regardless of being trans or cis or whatever, is also guilty of rape. And this sadly does happen.

Some “closeted” gay men marry straight women, and vice versa, are they also rapists? What about people who hide STDs? Or the many stories of men and women who lie about their employment circumstances of finances, often in an Internet “catfishing” scenario, or those who pretend to be a CIA secret agent when they’re not, etc.

If “rape by deception” is a thing for trans-people, it is equally a thing for cis-people; perhaps even MORE a thing simply because there are more of them. If the OP thinks “rape by deception” applies only to the scenario of a deceptive trans-person then I find that to be unfair at best, an example of anti-trans-prejudice at worst.

 

[shockerfan]

If “rape by deception” is a thing for trans-people, it is equally a thing for cis-people; perhaps even MORE a thing simply because there are more of them. If the OP thinks “rape by deception” applies only to the scenario of a deceptive trans-person then I find that to be unfair at best, an example of anti-trans-prejudice at worst.

I would think anybody who intentionally withholds pertinent information that another person would use for informed consent would be guilty of rape-by-deception. (Like a person not telling their sexual partner they had an STD.)

I have had a very liberal person tell me that its not necessarily important for a transsexual to disclose their “situation” with a prospective partner, as they felt that person IS the gender they identify with in their mind. Thus, I think its best to not divert this thread away from the OP’s question.

 

[BornInMarch]

Unethical? Of course. The moral equivalent of rape? Only if anyone who withholds information that they cannot father/mother children in order to secure someone’s hand in marriage, regardless of being trans or cis or whatever, is also guilty of rape. And this sadly does happen.

Some “closeted” gay men marry straight women, and vice versa, are they also rapists? What about people who hide STDs? Or the many stories of men and women who lie about their employment circumstances of finances, often in an Internet “catfishing” scenario, or those who pretend to be a CIA secret agent when they’re not, etc.

If “rape by deception” is a thing for trans-people, it is equally a thing for cis-people; perhaps even MORE a thing simply because there are more of them. If the OP thinks “rape by deception” applies only to the scenario of a deceptive trans-person then I find that to be unfair at best, an example of anti-trans-prejudice at worst.

Rape By Deception can apply to cisgender people as well! In fact it applies whenever ANYBODY uses lies or the withholding of pertinent information in order to have sex with another person. If you have a half-sibling who was given up for adoption at birth, and he doesn’t know he has any siblings, and you sleep with him by withholding your blood relation, then that is rape-by-deception. If a cisgender person pretends to be transgender in order to pick up transgender people then that is rape-by-deception on the cisgender person’s part.

The reason is that without the pertinent information, it is impossible to make an informed decision regarding consent.

It’s like Statutory Rape. In Statutory Rape the victim need not be coerced with threats or violence, and might have even agreed to the sex, but because of the victim’s age and immaturity it is impossible for that person to make an informed decision regarding consent.

 

[Rau]

Unethical? Of course. The moral equivalent of rape? Only if anyone who withholds information that they cannot father/mother children in order to secure someone’s hand in marriage, regardless of being trans or cis or whatever, is also guilty of rape. And this sadly does happen.

Some “closeted” gay men marry straight women, and vice versa, are they also rapists? What about people who hide STDs? Or the many stories of men and women who lie about their employment circumstances of finances, often in an Internet “catfishing” scenario, or those who pretend to be a CIA secret agent when they’re not, etc.

If “rape by deception” is a thing for trans-people, it is equally a thing for cis-people; perhaps even MORE a thing simply because there are more of them. If the OP thinks “rape by deception” applies only to the scenario of a deceptive trans-person then I find that to be unfair at best, an example of anti-trans-prejudice at worst.

Note: I did not address the charge of “rape” at all.

 

[Otar_Mendes]

If you meet a ‘nice looking’ ‘woman’, surely before one married her, you would realise if it was really a bloke in makeup or whatever.

Oh yeah? I assure you quite a few post-OP (fully formed vagina) transgenderslook more feminine that 70% of women around you Especially Asian transgenders. And you wouldn’t even realize if she used to be a male even when having sex with her.

Would anyone ever really fall in love with a ‘drag queen’? (Whether they call themselves a transvestite, transgender, or whatever, it’s the same thing).

Say what?

That’s not the same thing. At all. I suggest that you should do a bit of a research.

. It is not merely the clothes that make a person be a man or a woman, but its the whole physiology

Indeed. That’s why I suggest that you do some research coz you clearly have some problems understanding what you are talking about.

 

[robertmidwest]

Imagine you meet somebody who looks like a woman and who you think is biologically a woman. You talk to this person, hit it off, and eventually get married. Then later on, after you’ve gotten married and slept with this person you discover that this person is transgendered, is biologically a man, and has been keeping this secret from you the whole time. Would you care, and if so would your reaction to this new information be negative?

If you are like most people than you would care and would have negative feelings, but don’t expect sympathy from the transgender community or from liberals in general because both groups have large numbers of people who think your hypothetical spouse did nothing wrong. If you look up “should transgender people out themselves to potential romantic & sexual partners” there is a large number of people who argued that they should not, that potential partners don’t have a right to information that might influence their decision, and that they shouldn’t even mind.

Am I the only one who thinks this is very unethical? Sex isn’t a right, convincing someone to sleep with you by use of deception (which includes withholding or otherwise hiding information that might cause them to reject you) is rape, and most reasonable people would consider the biological sex of their potential partner to be relevant information. I would certainly feel raped if a transgender person gained my consent/hand in marriage by pretending to be cisgendered/normal, but legally I wouldn’t be able to successfully claim rape or even emotional distress. Am I the only one who thinks this is madness?

nypost.com/2017/07/24/man-sentenced-for-stabbing-date-119-times-after-learning-shes-trans/

I think this guy agreed with you.

 

[Wesrock]

I think the situation is a bit far-fetched. If you meet a ‘nice looking’ ‘woman’, surely before one married her, you would realise if it was really a bloke in makeup or whatever.

People have operations to correct certain physiological differences, you know. And you’d be surprised at how female (or male) some post-op persons can look. It can be pretty indistinguishable. The surgery’s gotten to the point where even the conjugal act reportedly feels no different.

I’m not saying it’s right, just stating the facts.

 

[Ridgerunner]

People have operations to correct certain physiological differences, you know. And you’d be surprised at how female (or male) some post-op persons can look. It can be pretty indistinguishable. The surgery’s gotten to the point where even the conjugal act reportedly feels no different.

I’m not saying it’s right, just stating the facts.

not to get too graphic here, but perhaps one comment would not be out of order. To my understanding the surgery does not include somehow building an imitation cervix, the tissue of which is unlike anything else in the body and which is pretty prominent in the vaginal canal. Um, anybody who knows female physiognomy reasonably well would notice its absence.

 

[Clevus]

The practice of engagement took care of the problem presented in these posts. It could be as long as 3 years, and it was for the most part successful. Patients and endurance was put to the test. Some people can hide something for a long time, but thanks for slip ups, it was a good method to weed out the unwanted. I recall, even in the late fifties, chaperones were required for outings during engagement. The couple needed to return by 10 or 11PM, and the man sent off home by Dad. Announcing that going to a quiet evening for a meal and listen to music would raise eyebrows in some Catholic cultures. No tweets and hook up sites back then.

All of these cautions were for a purpose, and a long familiarization period took place. Each would get to know the families of the future spouse to see if they were a devout family and were raised in the correct atmosphere for raising children.

As times went on, and as the people abandoned the true Church, the typical stories of tension and human relationships and ironing out differences began to include deviant occult practices as norms. Catch phrases and social incidences such that would only be recognized in the metropolis of Sodom became to be intermingled with rituals that are Holy such as marriage. So now analyzing a couple’s difficult relation would include phrases such as ‘being hooked up only a few times’, ‘shacked up only once’, ‘once was bi’, ‘slept with her a few times’,etc. One could hear regularily, “Who knows, the cause for that may be due to not having premarital sex”.

On transgender, the statistics of the number of true candidate cases for gender correction the past 50 years has never differed, while the skills of surgeons as improved, and the successful surgeries have become common. We all new this, and the typical cases involved a prior long study period with medical staff and psychological assessment. The cases dealt mainly with children.

We are witnessing the repeat of Moses tossing the tablets, and they are choosing on what side of the chasm they prefer.

Fr. Ripperger says we are due for a spanking from God. Well said Fr.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Otar Mendes;14543219]Oh yeah? I assure you quite a few post-OP (fully formed vagina) transgenderslook more feminine that 70% of women around you Especially Asian transgenders. And you wouldn’t even realize if she used to be a male even when having sex with her.

Indeed. That’s why I suggest that you do some research coz you clearly have some problems understanding what you are talking about.

Translation: you don’t have the right opinions and I, Otar, do!