Transitional Fossils and the Theory of Evolution in relation to Genesis Accounts

[Freddy]

Freddy:

But you were casting doubts on the age of stars upstream (post 1704?).

Fred, please read what was posted. If “casting doubts” means acknowledging against your claim of “certainty” that the present science, as is all science, on the the distance to the stars is provisional then yes.

Perhaps you could tell us what sort of distances you have in mind and the method you use to determine them.

 

[rossum]

Thank you for that interesting article. It talks about digits on Panderichthys, a Sarcopterygian fish.

The Sarcopterygian group includes Coelacanths, Lungfish and our own tetrapod fish ancestors, such as Tiktaalik. That group already includes fish with lungs (Lungfish), fish with stumpy limbs (Coelacanths) and now it also includes fish with fingers (Panderichthys).

 

[o_mlly]

Perhaps you could tell us what sort of distances you have in mind and the method you use to determine them.

The issue is time. The distance anyone has in their mind for any perceived object is not in real time even when directly observed. The point that must be recognized is information obtained indirectly is even less reliable as real. Inferences that follow such information about reality are dependent on technical devices as interpreted by trained technical people. The degrees of freedom, so to speak, increase the ability to reject the accuracy of claims derived from devices and interpretations.

Now to the OP:

The reason this is relevant to Sacred Scripture is that I wish to know if it is necessary for me to attempt to interpret the accounts in Genesis 1-11 to account for billions of years or not.

No.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Perhaps you could tell us what sort of distances you have in mind and the method you use to determine them.

The issue is time. The distance anyone has in their mind for any perceived object is not in real time even when directly observed.

A friend has just driven to your place. She took the direct route - a straight line. She didn’t check the time when she left so she’s not sure how long it took. But her place is 60km away and she drove at 60kph.

. . . .

 

[o_mlly]

A friend has just driven to your place. She took the direct route - a straight line. She didn’t check the time when she left so she’s not sure how long it took. But her place is 60km away and she drove at 60kph.

My grandson would think that quite a simple calculation. It seems to have confounded you.

If your grandson is less than 5 years old then we give him a pass. But for you, not so much.

The first claim to be challenged is that you have friends. Leaving that dubious claim aside for the moment, the next problem is that the so-called “friend” was able to enter a vehicle already moving at 60kph. She must be quite an able runner or did she just mimic the Austin Powers maneuver.

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[stoplooklisten]

Cladistics - The cladistic method interprets each character state transformation implied by the distribution of shared character states among taxa (or other terminals) as a potential piece of evidence for grouping. Source: Cladistics - Wikipedia

So, if you look like a monkey, you must be related to a monkey (grouped with the monkeys). Mom/Dad, isn’t that racism?

 

[stoplooklisten]

Q. Do ice cores prove long ages of earth history? A. Not so far.

Ice accumulation at 5 feet per year would require only 800 years to accumulate to a thickness of 4000 feet.

WWII aircraft in Greenland were buried to a depth of approximately 250 feet in approximately 50 years.

ICR link: Ice Cores and the Age of the Earth | The Institute for Creation Research

Plus, are the alternating varves in ice cores (dark and light layers) really annually markings or could they have occurred more frequently?

 

[rossum]

WWII aircraft in Greenland were buried to a depth of approximately 250 feet in approximately 50 years.

Yet another creationist PRATT. Now show us your evidence that as much snow falls in the flat part of Greenland (where the aircraft were) near the sea as in the central mountain of Greenland where the ice cores were taken. You can’t, and yout misleading YEC sources conveniently ‘forgot’ to tell you that.

Those ice cored show dust layers from Krakatoa and from Vesuvius among other dated volcanic eruptions, to check the counting of the annual layers. See Claim CD410 for details.

YEC has zero scientific evidence, so the only way for YEC websites, like ICR, to try to make YEC look ‘scientific’ is to lie, often by omission. This is yet another case in point. They are comparing apples (snowfall near the coast) with oranges (snowfall in the mountains) and hoping that their target audience will not bother to check that the two accumulation rates are different.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

A friend has just driven to your place. She took the direct route - a straight line. She didn’t check the time when she left so she’s not sure how long it took. But her place is 60km away and she drove at 60kph.

… the next problem is that the so-called “friend” was able to enter a vehicle already moving at 60kph.

I think it’s a reasonable analogy. Unless you think that light takes a little time to get up to speed?

But if you give us your thoughts on the age of any given stars and how you worked it out then we can check your figures against the scientific calcs.

 

[o_mlly]

I think it’s a reasonable analogy. Unless you think that light takes a little time to get up to speed?

The analogy works only in the sense that she is as uncertain as to her time as you are to the distance to the stars.

Got any transitional fossils to tell us about?

 

[rossum]

Got any transitional fossils to tell us about?

Yes. Got any directly created new species?

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

I think it’s a reasonable analogy. Unless you think that light takes a little time to get up to speed?

The analogy works only in the sense that she is as uncertain as to her time as you are to the distance to the stars.

But if you divide speed by time you get distance. It’s pretty accurate…

And we’ve seen that relatively simple maths can tell us the distance. And we know the speed. But again, if you give us your best shot at what some of the distances are we can compare the methods used to calculate them.

 

[o_mlly]

o_mlly:

Got any transitional fossils to tell us about?

Yes. Got any directly created new species?

No you don’t. The ambiguous fossil remains that only through evos imaginations have been claimed as transitional have been or are being debunked.

What’s a species? Which of the 26 definitions floating around in evos minds is the correct one?

But if you divide speed by time you get distance. It’s pretty accurate…

More than just pretty accurate; it’s exact. The math has not been in question. It’s the accuracy of the observations.

 

[rossum]

No you don’t.

Yes I do. We have fossils. You have nothing. Where is your observation of any deity poofing a new species into existence? You have no evidence, so all you can do is to try to disparage (unsuccessfully) the evidence for evolution.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

But if you divide speed by time you get distance. It’s pretty accurate…

More than just pretty accurate; it’s exact. The math has not been in question. It’s the accuracy of the observations.

The spacecraft Gaia which is doing the observations can determine the positions of stars at a magnitude of V = 10 down to a precision of 7 μas. That’s equivalent to measuring the width of a human hair in Detroit if you’re standing in New York.

Is that not accurate enough for you?

So now we have measurements that are so accurate it’s not possible to envisage just how accurate and some relatively straightforward maths.

So how far do you think the stars are and how did you work it out? We can compare notes.

 

[o_mlly]

The spacecraft Gaia which is doing the observations can determine the positions of stars at a magnitude of V = 10 down to a precision of 7 μas. That’s equivalent to measuring the width of a human hair in Detroit if you’re standing in New York.

Is that what they told you, Fred? Or did you just read, copy and paste it without critically analyzing the claims?

https://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/gaia/dr2-known-issues

 

[o_mlly]

Where is your observation of any deity poofing a new species into existence?

… ?

What’s a species? Which of the 26 definitions floating around in evos minds is the correct one?

 

[rossum]

Thank you for confirming that you have no evidence of any deity ever creating a new species from nothing.

The obvious lack of evidence for your position is obvious.

 

[o_mlly]

Thank you for confirming that you have no evidence of any deity ever creating a new species from nothing.

You are welcome. Apparently you do not know the etymology of the word “evidence”? E Video, things which are clearly manifest have no need of faith.

The obvious lack of evidence for your position is obvious.

???
The evident lack of evidence for your position is evident. Is that what you’re really trying to write?

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

The spacecraft Gaia which is doing the observations can determine the positions of stars at a magnitude of V = 10 down to a precision of 7 μas. That’s equivalent to measuring the width of a human hair in Detroit if you’re standing in New York.

Is that what they told you, Fred? Or did you just read, copy and paste it without critically analyzing the claims?

These are known correction factors to be applied in certain well defined cases. And that page lists what one needs to do to correct them. The craft is measuring well over a billion stars. This isn’t counting sheep in a field.

‘The accuracy of the distances obtained by Gaia at the end of the nominal mission will range from 20% for stars near the centre of the Galaxy, some 30,000 light-years away, to a remarkable 0.001% for the stars nearest to our Solar System.’ ESA - Frequently Asked Questions about Gaia

Check out that figure again for the nearest stars: 0.001%. That’s getting the position of something in San Francisco, measured from New York, to an accuracy of an inch and a half.

Maybe you can give us your estimate for some distances and the means by which you obtained them and we can compare.