Translating the Tridentine mass into english

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ProVobis said:
For the record Pope John Paul II in his 1984 Quattuor Abhinc Annos officially restored the older rite based on several conditions, one of which was

And AFAIK, subsequent documents *Ecclesia Dei *and Summorum Pontificum did not change this.
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Exactly.

There were some questions posed to Rome about that very subject, and the answer was “no”; the 1962 Missal must be used only in the Latin language, although provision was specifically made for the readings in the vernacular.

But as to the OPs question, it still might be done, using the 1962 Missal in the vernacular, it would just take a decision by the Holy Father to make it a reality.
 
ProVobis said:
For the record Pope John Paul II in his 1984 Quattuor Abhinc Annos officially restored the older rite based on several conditions, one of which was

And AFAIK, subsequent documents *Ecclesia Dei *and Summorum Pontificum did not change this.
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But one thing was not restored from 1962 are holydays of obligation, that is, there is one set of holydays obligation that bind all Latin Rite Catholics (in the United States) regardless of the form.
 
I should add: the EF Mass was actually celebrated in different languages in at least two places: China (where it was translated into Chinese - Classical Chinese maybe?) and Croatia (Church Slavonic). And at one point - this was during the Carolingian period: 9th century onwards - there was a minor fad of translating Roman Mass chants into Greek (missa graeca).
 
patrick457 said:
I should add: the EF Mass was actually celebrated in different languages in at least two places: China (where it was translated into Chinese - Classical Chinese maybe?) and Croatia (Church Slavonic). And at one point - this was during the Carolingian period: 9th century onwards - there was a minor fad of translating Roman Mass chants into Greek (missa graeca).
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I wonder though if in those few places where the EF Mass was established in the local* tongue, the Offertory, Canon, etc were said submissa voce. I’d be curious.
  • or languages other than Latin
 
Bran_Stark said:
It’s worth noting that certain groups of Anglicans and Western Rite Orthodox celebrate English liturgies that are very close (though not 100% identical) translations of the Tridentine Mass. So it’s been already been done, just not with RCC permission.
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Just a slight correction, Rome has actually translated the Anglican Use (Ordinariate) liturgy which is very close to the Tridentine with additional prayers from the Anglican tradition. At this time there are choices the Ordinariate parishes may choose for the Mass, however, this Advent the new revised Missal for the Ordinariate is coming out.

As far as the Orthodox goes, that of course is up to the Orthodox and has been in existence for around 25 years.

Yours In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
Technically, there is no such thing as the Tridentine Mass because Trent (or more specifically Quo Primum) approved all (20+ ?) rites which had been in existence for over 200 hundred years, or 1370 AD. I would imagine many of those rites were not in Latin.) Trent did not create any new rites.
 
BernadetteM said:
Just a slight correction, Rome has actually translated the Anglican Use (Ordinariate) liturgy which is very close to the Tridentine with additional prayers from the Anglican tradition. At this time there are choices the Ordinariate parishes may choose for the Mass, however, this Advent the new revised Missal for the Ordinariate is coming out.
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Oh, I am well aware of the Ordinariates. I just didn’t mention them here because their liturgy follows the modern three-year lectionary instead of the traditional one-year one.
 
The old missals like St. Joseph had the Tridentine Mass already translated into English on the right side. When the Mass first begin being celebrated in English, it was in fact celebrated exactly as the English was written in the missal, except that certain parts were still reserved for Latin. I still have my old missal from when this happened with a small brochure and my missal marked up as to what few things were still Latin. I don’t know why the English was re-translated within a few years after that for the “new Mass” except that maybe people thought the language was too awkward.
 
Sunbreak said:
I don’t know why the English was re-translated within a few years after that for the “new Mass” except that maybe people thought the language was too awkward.
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My guess is that the ICEL lobbied for and receive permission to secure the copyrights for their own translation of the text. Also to make it more “singable.”

While they initially used the St. Joseph’s Missal, which incidentally never had the Latin propers, the translations varied from missal to missal. St. Joseph’s Missal, however, was probably the widest used handmissal around the time of the council, and it was used as the interim missal, one they could easily dismantle.

Here’s an illustration of this dismantling: lmschairman.org/2014/02/the-death-of-reform-of-reform-5-1965.html
 
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