Translation of the words "brother" and "cousin"

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Using the same argument one could say if people had known about God being three in one persons there would not be necesary conditions for Arianism to arise.
I’m sure you can see the weakness in that argument. “Knowledge” that the doctrine of the Trinity is true and other doctrines false is not to be compared, in terms of persuasiveness, with the factual, eyewitness testimony that a certain named person, living in a certain place at a certain time, the wife of a named husband, etc. etc., was the mother of four or five or six sons and daughters rather than just of an only son.
 
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Since they were both pregnant at about the same time, it was assumed they were probably about the same age. If about the same age, more likely they were cousins.
This is incorrect. They were not about the same age. Elizabeth and Zechariah were both “advanced in years” according to Luke 1:7. That is why the birth of John the Baptist was miraculous…Elizabeth was past child-bearing years, just like Sarah was when she gave birth to Isaac.

Elizabeth’s pregnancy was a sign to young Mary that God would fulfill His promise to her, just as He had fulfilled his promise to Zechariah and blessed Elizabeth with a son to take away her reproach.

So, Elizabeth and Mary were relatives who were pregnant at the same time, but that doesn’t mean they were the same age. The writer of the Gospel was very aware of this.
 
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As other posters have mentioned, in Hebrew and ancient Aramaic, there is no word for cousin. I think the term is “brethren” which can mean any of a number of things.

The gospel accounts of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph’s early life could have only been sourced from them. It is doubtful that the four gospel writers knew the three 25 years before Jesus’ baptism by John. Jesus or Mary probably related to story of their early days and they spoke ancient Aramaic, not Greek. Jesus spoke to his apostles in ancient Aramaic. Mary spoke to John in Aramaic, her native language. The writers of John (and Matthew) had to come up with what they thought was the closest term.
When the gospel were written, the popular language of the world in which they were written was Greek. There is some translation problems with assigning words to a language (Aramaic) in which a corresponding word did not exist. Hence the problems we encounter in understanding certain aspects of the gospels.
 
I do not believe that you understand what I was saying. The Greek word that is used means a country man. The translations vary but the Greek word does not mean cousin. The writers I believe our inspired by God BUT that does mean dictated by God. God didn’t choose each and every word. The writing would be to the understanding of the writer. The writer would be inspired to write about Jesus from what the writer knew either from first hand knowledge or from others. Since such concepts in the language as cousin, niece, nephew did not exist than they would write it according to what they did understand. To repeat God did not dictate scripture He inspired scripture.
 
. Odd too that the parents of said cousins are never referenced.
I am not sure of what parents you are referencing but if you mean those named as brothers of Jesus than you are incorrect each one of them are mentioned with other mothers and fathers. Since none of the sisters are named, it is impossible to say that their parents weren’t named.
 
. . . There are Greek words (for cousin), but WHY should a writer (like St. Mark) or a later translator CHANGE the word AWAY from what was actually said? They shouldn’t. . . .

This below from another post of mine . . . .
Hebrew culture called all male relatives “brothers”.

The ancient Jews didn’t even have a WORD for “cousins”!

There are Greek words, but WHY should a writer (like St. Mark) or a later translator CHANGE the word AWAY from what was actually said? They shouldn’t.

If the Blessed Virgin Mary had other children, you would have expected St. Mark’s Gospel to say . . .
NOT MARK 6:3 but a phantom verse 3 Is not this the carpenter, ONE OF the SONS of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.
Not this . . .
MARK 6:3 3 Is not this the carpenter, THE SON of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.
Every argument against the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, has a strong refutation in my opinion. Every last one.

Mark 6:3 is no exception.
Hope this is helpful.

God bless.

Cathoholic
 
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This may also be helpful . . .

I would not call them “cousins” but “close relatives” because that is what the CCC states (there are other good reasons, but I won’t get into that here).

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CCC 500 Against this doctrine the objection is sometimes raised that the Bible mentions brothers and sisters of Jesus.157 The Church has always understood these passages as not referring to other children of the Virgin Mary. In fact James and Joseph, “brothers of Jesus”, are the sons of another Mary, a disciple of Christ, whom St. Matthew significantly calls “the other Mary”.158
They are close relations of Jesus, according to an Old Testament expression.159
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The Hebrew word “ach” (Aramaic = “Ah”), the Hebrew word for “brother” has a variety of meanings.

(And if the discussion morphs into “the Greek” that isn’t going to change this outlook either.)

ach = uterine brothers
ach = cousins
ach = second cousins
ach = third cousins
ach = distant relatives
ach = fellow tribesmen
Etc.
.

Ten Biblical Meanings of “Brother” (in addition to “Brother” in the sense of from the same womb in a Hebrew outlook)
  • Half-brother
  • Relative
  • First cousin
  • Second cousin
  • Third cousin
  • Companions
  • Fellow Tribesmen
  • Fellow Countrymen
  • Nephew/Uncle
  • Of the same religious affiliation
 
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Yes - that’s right. I stand corrected. Not sure why I thought they were about the same age. Quite possible Elizabeth was more of a distant aunt than a cousin.
 
In Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55-56 - who are the parents of those named (and unnamed female) brethren? What passages do those names (of the parents) come from?
 
but WHY should a writer (like St. Mark) or a later translator CHANGE the word AWAY from what was actually said?
Because of going towards more succintness when applicable. If indeed one is a brother from same parents why go away from that and say it just a relative, which is still true but away from succintness.
 
Because the original Hebrew and Aramaic did not have a word for cousin or even nephew.
This is what I have heard Father Mitch say a number of times. Since he is fluent in 7 languages, including the above, I’ll accept his explanation.
 
Cathoholic . . . .
. . . There are Greek words (for cousin), but WHY should a writer (like St. Mark) or a later translator CHANGE the word AWAY from what was actually said? They shouldn’t. . . .
mcq72 . . .
Because of going towards more succintness when applicable.
I don’t see how this would be more “succinct”. I do see how it could be wrong (for example, what if two of these “brothers” were “cousins” and two of them were “second cousins”?)

.

Why not just go with what the Church teaches?
CCC 500 excerpt . . . the Bible mentions brothers and sisters of Jesus. The Church has always understood these passages as not referring to other children of the Virgin Mary. . . . They are close relations of Jesus . . .
 
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Because the original Hebrew and Aramaic did not have a word for cousin or even nephew.
But the Greek does, and that is what is inspired, and certainly you would think the writers of the gospel understood whether or not Mary had other children or not, and would choose a Greek word accordingly.
 
Agathon . . .
You do know they could have been stepbrothers.
Yes I do know that but thanks for bringing up even another dimension of “brothers” in the Hebrew sense.
 
I’ve heard the argument that the “brothers” of Jesus mentioned in scripture were not literal blood brothers, but were most likely akin to cousins and the like, because the language of the time didn’t have words for those other, familial terms.

How is it then that elsewhere in the Gospel, it describes Elizabeth as being Mary’s “cousin”?

Thanks in advance 🙂
Consider these explanations
Re: scripture, The CC is the writer and interpreter of scripture
 
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For a very good treatment of the question of the “brothers” of Jesus see see Brant Pitre’s talk “The ‘Brothers’ of Jesus: A Fresh Look at the Evidence” here on YouTube.
 
But the Greek does, and that is what is inspired, and certainly you would think the writers of the gospel understood whether or not Mary had other children or not, and would choose a Greek word accordingly.
The Greek wasn’t inspired. The author was inspired. So what does it mean to be inspired Fr. Hardin defined it this way
INSPIRATION, BIBLICAL. The special influence of the Holy Spirit on the writers of Sacred Scripture in virtue of which God himself becomes the principal author of the books written and the sacred writer is the subordinate author. In using human beings as his instruments in the composition, God does so in harmony with the person’s nature and temperament, and with no violence to the free, natural activity of his or her human faculties. According to the Church’s teaching, “by supernatural power, God so moved and impelled them to write, He was so present to them, that the things which He ordered and those only they first rightly understood, then willed faithfully to write down, and finally expressed in apt words and with infallible truth” (Pope Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus , Denzinger 3293
God doesn’t dictate what is written. He uses people. Referring to the bolded type, it means that God does not dictate what is written and the person just writes it down. The authors of the Bible might have written in Greek but their native language was not Greek. When they were confronted with the relatives of Jesus, they were not use to uncle, aunt, cousin, brother-in-law, sister-in-law. They wrote as they were accustomed to referring to these relatives. God inspired them in harmony with the their nature in the natural activity of their faculties.
 
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