Transsexualism, why is it so dispised

[aspawloski4th]

I think the question of the OP is why does the world do what it does to folks like us.

I’ve been kicked out of multiple homeless shelters, YES catholic run ones even, because they didn’t want me using either bathroom or shower/changing room

I’ve been assaulted, I’ve had someone try to rape me, the police didn’t care, they did nothing, absolutely nothing. They laughed at me, they scorned me, threatened to arrest me for prostitution.

I have over twenty friends that committed suicide in their younger years, not a one had even managed to get past college age.

I have SIX that have been murdered for their ‘lifestyle’. The police only bothered to even investigate 1 or 2 of them. The one that was caught, got something like 5years for manslaughter by using a ‘panic’ defense despite the fact the person was open about their transsexuality.

These are not normal things to have in one lifetime, let alone someone who is only just turning 29. They’re simply not. It’s simply reprehensible. No one cares, no one really cares. Sure, they will flock in and gasp at how horrible it is, how awful it must be, but then nothing happens. Nothing changes.

Nothing ever changes. I have been absent from these forums because I am preparing to leave the United States. I simply can’t take it anymore, this country is completely inhospitable to me. I am going to have to flee as a refuge, almost quite literally. That is how bad it is for those of us with this ‘cross’ in this country.

And to think certain people who have posted on this thread think we don’t suffer! Or our suffering is not important or does not matter. The saying that was told to me in grade school “be yourself” evedently means nothing.

 

[Elizabeth502]

And to think certain people who have posted on this thread think we don’t suffer! Or our suffering is not important or does not matter. The saying that was told to me in grade school “be yourself” evedently means nothing.

Which “certain people”? I hope you’re not accusing me. I have been there and demonstrated that before. You won’t find it in my posts. Nor will you find it in Pete 29’s posts. What you will find is the implausibility of any human being, with subjective knowledge only of their own range of sufferings, being able to compare or place on a spectrum any of those sufferings – worst or least – relative to the sufferings (little or great) of any person outside of themselves.

By definition suffering is subjective: it does not refer to objective events or situations. Many variables affect the degree of that subjective suffering: degree of sensitivity, capacity to feel, awareness of feelings, inborn character strengths such as humor, inborn preferences such as an instinct away from self-pity (and thus an instinct to minimize one’s sufferings), and personal circumstances which may tend either to lessen or to enhance those sufferings – such as, simultaneous sufferings which may magnify the perception of individual ones.

Some people brush off divorce as just an inconvenient & unfortunate mistake. Other people experience it as a lifelong agony and are never able truly to get over it, despite great effort. Some people are able to rebuild their lives after having lost all possessions and their entire immediate family in a fire; others collapse under the weight of emotional paralysis: that difference in reaction could be due to differences in personal resources to resist suffering, but it could also be due to differences in levels of experienced pain. (Or it could be both.)

We can only evaluate and compare our own sufferings; we can never get into the mind of someone else. Descriptions of pain disappoint, and are inadequate. Descriptions can provide images, but ultimately suffering belongs to the realm of the nonverbal.

We get it that transsexualism results in great social pain, as it represents something unusual in society and a great risk of rejection on an everyday basis. My question is, now that this has been said repeatedly on several threads, what do you expect posters on CAF to do about your pain? Not, What do you want the Catholic Church to do about it?

Because I keep getting the message that somehow we’re responsible for the degree of your suffering, although we did not create you.

 

[hyflyer64]

TRANSSEXUALISM, WHY IS IT DISPISED??

I’d like to try and aswer that question.
Hatred for minorities has been around forever. As a minority, you’re different from mainstream society. The difference can be race, religion, lifestyle, physical appearance. It doesn’t matter. If you’re different, you can be singled out at any time and become the recipient of anyones abuse. Why?? Because people are stupid and bigoted and ignorant and it makes them feel superior when they can debase someone else.
People of color still suffer but not as they did in the past. Gay people are accepted more than they used to be. And we are making ground.
However, as someone pointed out on another thread, the part of the country you live in, makes a big difference as to the level of acceptance. The more educated and younger the population, the higher the acceptance level appears to be. Even then, one has to be careful. The bigotry can be laying just below the surface. During the day you’re fine but at night you have to be real careful. Even in areas where there is great acceptance, there are individuals that with too much alcohol, turn into complete monsters. The movie “Soldiers Girl” is a prime example.
And how many times have we seen some minister’s or priest’s, condemnation from the pulpit insight the population to resort to criminal acts!!??
It happens all the time. It has and always will. At least until reasonable people, no matter what faith or lack of faith, stand up and denounce those that use their position to influence others in a manner that can result in tragedy for another.

So, I’m thinking that maybe we should be asking not the “WHY”, but what is there that we, here in CAF, can do to make a difference?? Or is there even any thing that we do want to do??
I know that I do. I’m not here because I’m “suffering”. I do not consider myself TS. That is behind me. I’m here because I felt that I needed to do something for my “sisters” that are still on this journey, who are Catholic, and try to enlighten those that have little to no knowledge about this subject.
I hope to possibly change the attitude of some of those that feel we are going straight to hell. They seem to think that that is what we deserve. Well in fact that is what the majority of all people deserve, but GOD gave us his Son and even at the moment of our death, if we ask HIM for HIS mercy and forgiveness, HE will grant it. We may have to do some atonement in Purgatory for a while, but we will be with HIM in eternity. Of that I have no doubt.

 

[prodigal-sun]

For those here that think the ways transsexuals deal with themselves is wrong or a sin. In practical and tangible terms, what would you have us do? Be specific and leave nothing to the imagination. I’ve heard from the other side of the topic what I should not do, plenty up to here. I’m just curious as to what you think we should do. Make it tangible.

PICK UP YOUR CROSS!

This is what you do! We were never promised paradise on earth. God loves us so much that he allowed his only begotten son to be tortured and crucified for our sins. By picking up our cross and following him we place our burdens and sacrifices on the platen next to him during the Great Amen!

This is what you do, This is what Christ told us to do, This is what the Church teaches us, as a Catholic you should know this. We all have our burdens some more than others. I will never be able to phathom what you go through on a daily basis. I neither loathe or even dislike for that matter and my quess is that what you construe as hatred and loathing from CAF members is nothing more than correction and sympathy.

Acceptance of what the church teaches as sin is never going to happen because the church does not have the authority to change the basic tenets of sin. YOu ask us what to do, and your best bet in all walks of life is to live as a Catholic man following the teachings of the church because they come from our Lord and saviour.

Peace!

 

[prodigal-sun]

im not here for personal acceptance.i have that in my life.i just believe that the way this whole issue is treated by the majority of christians is very unchristian and any change in anybodys view or treatment of the condition and understanding of it in a positive way is a step forward.it is time for the barriers of intolerance and hatred to begin to be broken so christianity doesnt lose any more souls because of those misguided barriers.
having said that why shouldnt somebody open a thread on this issue here? if people on this site can learn about the realities and can have their ways changed to a more christian way of treating the issue…it might be a small step but it is still a step in the right way

The correct Christian way is one of correction and repentance. We repent when we sin and try to correct ourselves. It is not loving or christian to allow someone to allow their fellow man to flounder in sin. It is also not intolerance or hatred to not agree or accept sin as natural. I’m sorry for your burdens and pray for them to be lightned.

Peace!

 

[aspawloski4th]

PICK UP YOUR CROSS!

This is what you do! We were never promised paradise on earth. God loves us so much that he allowed his only begotten son to be tortured and crucified for our sins. By picking up our cross and following him we place our burdens and sacrifices on the platen next to him during the Great Amen!

This is what you do, This is what Christ told us to do, This is what the Church teaches us, as a Catholic you should know this. We all have our burdens some more than others. I will never be able to phathom what you go through on a daily basis. I neither loathe or even dislike for that matter and my quess is that what you construe as hatred and loathing from CAF members is nothing more than correction and sympathy.

Acceptance of what the church teaches as sin is never going to happen because the church does not have the authority to change the basic tenets of sin. YOu ask us what to do, and your best bet in all walks of life is to live as a Catholic man following the teachings of the church because they come from our Lord and saviour.

Peace!

While that is your answer, and can tellI from the way I read your response you are sincere. While others here seem to have a grit your teeth and bear it attitude. In this post medern age we are able to cure and deal with many human conditions that we were not able to in the past. If there was to come along a cure for my getting kidneystones or a friend of mine’s autism , or another firend of mine’s cerbral pulsy I don’t think anyone here would be saying ohno thats a cross you have to bear and not partake of the cure. If a cure for cancer ever was to come about, the first one to say curing was wrong would be tarred and feathered. But while maybe not a cure, there has been found a very successful way of dealing with transsexualism, but many are saying nowway that is just a cross you have to deal with end of story. Well I’m saying double standard. I should be able to correct thie mistake nature made in forming me.

 

[prodigal-sun]

Oh hun, you are so mistaken here. Please do some homework. It was sinful to eat meat on Fridays when was younger. Do you know why??? **Because the Italian fisherman needed a bigger market. That was the bottom line. F(*&&^^& money!! I could go on and on.**Along these lines, it’s SINFULL for a woman to get breast augmentation!? To get liposuction!? Plastic surgery!? Facial dermabration!?
A lot of things that were once considered sinful are no longer so. A sin is committed when you belive that a certain act is sinful and you still commit that act. A lot of so called sins are really in the mind of man! Through our thought process we make them so.
**Some people believe that the paintings on the ceiling of the Sisteen Chapel ( sp?) are sinful. Do you?? **Some people viewing them would find them very erotic.
Is killing someone in the name of GOD not a sin?? Apparently they did not think so in the Ols Testament and also in the new. The Crusades were in the name of GOD and thousands of inocent souls were murdered… The Church was in support.
Think on it.
What is sin and what isn’t.

Kinda off topic here but this nonsense has to be corrected.

The sin was not the eating of meat but the disobedience. This disicpline was changed to a degree removing the discipline and thereby removing the sin of disobedience. This sin is still around just not connected to that discipline. I hope that helps clear up this misunderstanding of yours in regard to sin changing.

Now as for the reason you give here for the cause of this disipline is nothing short of a lie which has been told enough times that people end up either believe it, or using it to shore up some argunment against the church, or both. Regardless this bunk is not true and no where can you find a legit source of any type of proof.

As with anything just because some people believe something is true does not make it so! That is why as Catholics we have the church to help and guide us through this earthly journey as the Church millitant to be with the church exalted.

With out the Church and her sacrements all of which were instituted by Christ this world would be completely lost.

Peace!

 

[prodigal-sun]

While that is your answer, and can tellI from the way I read your response you are sincere. While others here seem to have a grit your teeth and bear it attitude. In this post medern age we are able to cure and deal with many human conditions that we were not able to in the past. If there was to come along a cure for my getting kidneystones or a friend of mine’s autism , or another firend of mine’s cerbral pulsy I don’t think anyone here would be saying ohno thats a cross you have to bear and not partake of the cure. If a cure for cancer ever was to come about, the first one to say curing was wrong would be tarred and feathered. But while maybe not a cure, there has been found a very successful way of dealing with transsexualism, but many are saying nowway that is just a cross you have to deal with end of story. Well I’m saying double standard. I should be able to correct thie mistake nature made in forming me.

You are Catholic, no? What does the church say? This is the standard we must live by a Catholics. Does the church teach that this cross you have can be corrected with surgery as one with kidney stones. Are you equating This cross you need to bear with a Birth defect such as Autism. When my Down syndrome Nephew is doing something he shouldn’t be doing becuase it is a sin should I allow him to continue or should I correct him?

With all sincerity, Peace!

 

[aspawloski4th]

You are Catholic, no? What does the church say? This is the standard we must live by a Catholics. Does the church teach that this cross you have can be corrected with surgery as one with kidney stones. Are you equating This cross you need to bear with a Birth defect such as Autism. When my Down syndrome Nephew is doing something he shouldn’t be doing becuase it is a sin should I allow him to continue or should I correct him?

With all sincerity, Peace!

Actually the church has individual statements and no comprensive stand on the issue. Yes the church doe’s make mistakes. If the church never made mistakes Galleo would of never been jailed, there never would of been a Spanish Inquisition, and the battle of Hastings in 1066 would of never gotten the church’s blessing.

 

[prodigal-sun]

Actually the church has individual statements and no comprensive stand on the issue. Yes the church doe’s make mistakes. If the church never made mistakes Galleo would of never been jailed, there never would of been a Spanish Inquisition, and the battle of Hastings in 1066 would of never gotten the church’s blessing.

Church infallabilty has nothing to do with politics but faith and morals. This is where the church can teach no wrong. It is indeed protected by the HOly spirit. This is where your dilema lies.

All the examples you state from the above have nothing to do with what we are talking about but if you are serious about finding out about the truth to these incidents you make reference to please do some research. YOu will find that Gallieo was not jailed for what you suppose. The church had very little to do with the spanish inquisition and even comndemed it. As for the battle of hastings I will need to find out more on this subject but is more than likely political rather than having anything to do with faith and morales.

I hope this helps to correct some false beliefs about the Catholic Church.

Peace!

 

[aspawloski4th]

Church infallabilty has nothing to do with politics but faith and morals. This is where the church can teach no wrong. It is indeed protected by the HOly spirit. This is where your dilema lies.

All the examples you state from the above have nothing to do with what we are talking about but if you are serious about finding out about the truth to these incidents you make reference to please do some research. YOu will find that Gallieo was not jailed for what you suppose. The church had very little to do with the spanish inquisition and even comndemed it. As for the battle of hastings I will need to find out more on this subject but is more than likely political rather than having anything to do with faith and morales.

I hope this helps to correct some false beliefs about the Catholic Church.

Peace!

Thw church of medieval times would of considered the Galleo situation and the Normans invaiding England a faith situation. ( If one doesn’t trust the church one has a lack of faith). While we are on the subject of morals. When the church converted Iceland it did allow partially for the ancient trandition of selective infantacide to still procede for a time.

 

[hyflyer64]

PICK UP YOUR CROSS!

This is what you do! We were never promised paradise on earth. God loves us so much that he allowed his only begotten son to be tortured and crucified for our sins. By picking up our cross and following him we place our burdens and sacrifices on the platen next to him during the Great Amen!

This is what you do, This is what Christ told us to do, This is what the Church teaches us, as a Catholic you should know this. We all have our burdens some more than others. I will never be able to phathom what you go through on a daily basis. I neither loathe or even dislike for that matter and my quess is that what you construe as hatred and loathing from CAF members is nothing more than correction and sympathy.

Acceptance of what the church teaches as sin is never going to happen because the church does not have the authority to change the basic tenets of sin. YOu ask us what to do, and your best bet in all walks of life is to live as a Catholic man following the teachings of the church because they come from our Lord and saviour.

Peace!

Here I go again!!! Where does the church teach that going through HT and SRS, is a sin??? Please, please show me.
And once again I quote:
" An analysis of the moral licitness of “sex-change” operations. It concludes that the procedure could be morally acceptable in certain extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will “cure” the patient’s internal turmoil"
All trueTS Pre-Op women are “extreme cases”. Thus SRS is morally acceptable as it has been the one proven practice to “cure” the patients internal turmoil.

As for “acceptance of what the curch teaches as sin etc”. I say HOGWASH!!
The curch has a history of classifying things as sinful, only to change it’s position in a more honest and realistic time.
Can you tell me why it was a sin to eat meat on Fridays?? Or are you too young to remember that?? I would love to see your answer on this. Please!
Also, and this is extreme, in the past a catholic pregnant woman who was having life thretning complications was not allowed an abortion. At the risk of her life, she was forced by the church, to go to term and give birth, or be excomunicated.
I believe that the church now allows abortions in those “extreme” cases. Better to save the mother and give her a chance to bear another child.
SIN is not black and white, people. There are many gray areas and I haven’t seen anyone post who is in a position to pass judgement and say outright, what is sinful and what isn’t.
No one knows what is going on inside another. Only our Lord has that knowledge.
Are there actions that should be condemned, most certainly, and these usually pertain to actions that impact our neighbor.
As has been asked, would you deny an operation that would “cure” autism?? Please think on this. Remove the blinders.
What Would Jesus Do?? Sorry I wont “cure” you. Pick up your cross.

 

[hyflyer64]

You are Catholic, no? What does the church say? This is the standard we must live by a Catholics. Does the church teach that this cross you have can be corrected with surgery as one with kidney stones. Are you equating This cross you need to bear with a Birth defect such as Autism. When my Down syndrome Nephew is doing something he shouldn’t be doing becuase it is a sin should I allow him to continue or should I correct him?

With all sincerity, Peace!

We most certainly are equating “This Cross” to Autism. Scientific studies indicate that they have similar causes. It’s something that occurs to the brain in the womb.
You believe that this is something that we choose, don’t you??
If so, why is it that children of pre-school age know that they are not the gender their bodies indicate??
How could they possibly be making that choice??
And BTW, some of these children have been psychoanalyzed, prayed over, counceled, received “shock” therapy. All in an effort to “cure” them. To drive out the devil. Only to have them hurt themselves or commit suicide. The lucky ones finally come to terms with who and what they are and have it fixed.

 

[rosetta_stone]

a leading scientist at John Hopkins who pioneered transgender treatments admitted that after years of collecting data that the operations often failed to fix the depression and inner problems of those who underwent the surgery. Furthermore surgery and hormone therapy cannot change your genetic makeup, and souls have a gender which cannot be changed either.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Medical and psychological science has never benn or will ever be perfect. Harry Benjamin had much success with treating transsexuals and satisfaction after sugery.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

a leading scientist at John Hopkins who pioneered transgender treatments admitted that after years of collecting data that the operations often failed to fix the depression and inner problems of those who underwent the surgery.

Please see the other threads on the subject. Paul McHugh is a leading scientist, but a specialist in addiction, not gender. He had nothing to do with transgender treatment, never has done, never will do.

There are some 280 papers on long-term (15 year plus) outcomes, showing a 98% success rate for this treatment.

As for the surgery not being a cure-all - of course it isn’t! Treatment for heart-disease will do nothing for a broken leg. And the release of a prisoner from a torture-chamber will not cure them of any psychological or physical ailments they may have acquired from being tortured. That’s not to say that releasing them is useless. That analogy is exact.

As for the soul having gender - that may be true. But can you be certain that the body always reflects the soul’s gender? What about those cases where babies are born looking female, but masculinise later? Please read this whole thread, and follow the links to similar threads where these issues have been discussed in detail.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

PICK UP YOUR CROSS!

I always ask those who say this one question:

Last time you had a toothache, did you pick up your cross and dedicate your suffering to God, or did you see a dentist?

Because if you couldn’t even bear the comparatively minor discomfort of a rotten tooth, then what right to you have to tell others to bear the much greater discomfort of transsexuality.

I find that those who tell others to bear their cross don’t do it themselves. I’ve never found an exception.

 

[aussie_jaz]

The correct Christian way is one of correction and repentance. We repent when we sin and try to correct ourselves. It is not loving or christian to allow someone to allow their fellow man to flounder in sin. It is also not intolerance or hatred to not agree or accept sin as natural. I’m sorry for your burdens and pray for them to be lightned.

Peace!

so you would be saying that medical treatment (by surgery and/or drugs) of a mistake of nature is a sin ?
i dont see how
i do know that willful ignorance is a sin and it is that ignorance that breeds the intolerance and hatred towards the mistakes of nature.
my burdens were lightened by the wonderful worlds of medicine and science so how about you look into what they have found in relation to this condition and then you can honestly say you are sorry.

 

[hyflyer64]

a leading scientist at John Hopkins who pioneered transgender treatments admitted that after years of collecting data that the operations often failed to fix the depression and inner problems of those who underwent the surgery. Furthermore surgery and hormone therapy cannot change your genetic makeup, and souls have a gender which cannot be changed either.

Hun, you need to go back and read your source for these really inacurate statements.
Paul McHugh did NOT pioneer transgender treatments at John Hopkins. And he’s a psychiatrist not a scientist. When he took over the department of psychiatry at JH, he set out from the start, to dismantle the gender clinic. He had Dr. Jon Meyer undertake a study of “50” patients that had undergone SRS. I quote; “The report published by Jon Meyer (and cited authoritatively by Dr. McHugh) was met with considerable skepticism at the time it was published. It was widely criticized for methodological flaws, while other studies have shown that Meyer’s study was incorrect in its conclusions. Nevertheless, it was used by Johns Hopkins as an excuse to shut down its gender identity clinic.”

And pray tell, where did you come up with this??? "souls have a gender "!! Really!? And you know this … how??

The above post is the type of thing that people latch onto to support their intolerance.
It is completely inacurate and unsubstantiated opinion.
Please stop doing this. You are causing some people harm and confusing others.
If you want to quote something, post the actual text and not your interpretation of what it states.
I’m not directing this at anyone person ( sorry it had to be your post ) but to all of us.
Please let’s be honest and state that we are expressing an opinion.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Now in some posts we are talking genetic makeup. In the past on other subjects Catholics and their church didn’t care about genetic make up on ioda. So which is it, do we care about it or don’t we? Those who don’t like transsexxuals are trying to have it bothways, not very adult.