Transsexualism, why is it so dispised

[Dale_M]

Anyway, I would say that it is a huge problem that this is linked with homosexual activism. GLBT: the T stands for transsexual, which is the problem under discussion, if I understand correctly. The T does not stand for people who simply wear the clothes of the opposite sex for reasons of titillation, is that right? (Just want to clarify here so I’m not suddenly saying a bunch of stuff that doesn’t make any sense…)

What you ask about is actually a big fight in the the trans community. Some transsexuals are very clear that they adhere to the gender binary: the two sexes as laid out in Genesis. Others are more open-minded and see gender as being a spectrum.

Officially, the T in LGBT stands for “Transgender” which would include transsexuals, but also those who don’t complete their genital surgery (but live full-time as the opposite sex) as well as cross-dressers and transvestites, who are simply temporary visitors in the land of the opposite sex (in which they were born.) And yes, some of these transvestites or cross-dressers are motivated by sexual desire, which is not the case of transsexuals.

So you are correct. The inclusion of the T in the LGBT umbrella is problematic. Many transsexuals object to their inclusion in this group.

Well, there is a difference between what you all are going through and the situation of homosexuals, and while homosexuals may be more receptive to your situation than non-homosexuals are, the fact is that homosexual behavior is wrong, disordered, and not to be accepted the way they want it to be.

I think that as long as your problem is linked with homosexual activism, that you will have a huge hurdle that you don’t need to have in discussing this with those who do not know very much about it. I think that I am with many others who don’t really care that much about what people do in private but who do object to the attempt to force acceptance of disordered behavior as normal.

I wonder if transsexuals seek the shelter of the LGBT community because the general population is so unaccepting. If the general population were more accepting of transsexuals, perhaps that would split them away from the gay community.

 

[St_Francis]

What you ask about is actually a big fight in the the trans community. Some transsexuals are very clear that they adhere to the gender binary: the two sexes as laid out in Genesis. Others are more open-minded and see gender as being a spectrum.

Officially, the T in LGBT stands for “Transgender” which would include transsexuals, but also those who don’t complete their genital surgery (but live full-time as the opposite sex) as well as cross-dressers and transvestites, who are simply temporary visitors in the land of the opposite sex (in which they were born.) And yes, some of these transvestites or cross-dressers are motivated by sexual desire, which is not the case of transsexuals.

So you are correct. The inclusion of the T in the LGBT umbrella is problematic. Many transsexuals object to their inclusion in this group.

I wonder if transsexuals seek the shelter of the LGBT community because the general population is so unaccepting. If the general population were more accepting of transsexuals, perhaps that would split them away from the gay community.

I have seen this phenomenon elsewhere, so it wouldn’t surprise me here.

Your mention of transvestites made me realize that that is what I was trying to say, that perhaps the general population sees transsexuals as more like hyper-transvestites than hyper-homosexuals. Seriously, I read a lot about a wide variety of subjects, and this is stuff I never heard even a whisper of before. I always thought that it was either that the person had the chromosomal problem (which I had heard of) or transvestitism (?) as a sexual problem run amok.

 

[Dale_M]

Your mention of transvestites made me realize that that is what I was trying to say, that perhaps the general population sees transsexuals as more like hyper-transvestites than hyper-homosexuals…

You should realize, of course, that transsexualism is neither hyper-transvestism nor hyper-homosexuality. Transsexualism has nothing to do with sexual desire.

 

[aspawloski4th]

You should realize, of course, that transsexualism is neither hyper-transvestism nor hyper-homosexuality. Transsexualism has nothing to do with sexual desire.

That is very true. If I had a dime for everytime I was asked about my sexual attraction , I’d be able to buy out Bill Gates with pocket change. My answer is always, Iv’e thought about that because I’m to embroiled in trying transition. With people asking the sexual attraction question, and transewexuals like me not even thinking about it, I’d sugest maybe transexuals are less seualized than the general populace. It seems to me at least in our American culture it’s the average Jo or Jane that is more likely to have a sex obsession problem than your average transsexual. Just going by my personal experience.

 

[Dale_M]

With people asking the sexual attraction question, and transewexuals like me not even thinking about it, I’d sugest maybe transexuals are less seualized than the general populace. It seems to me at least in our American culture it’s the average Jo or Jane that is more likely to have a sex obsession problem than your average transsexual. Just going by my personal experience.

You may well be right. I don’t think there are any reliable statistics in the topic, but I have heard that many transsexuals have low sexual desire. Partly this is an effect of taking cross-gender hormones, but many transsexuals had low libido even before starting hormones… which I suppose makes sense. If someone is born with the wrong genitalia, it might be hard to sexually relate to those genitals.

 

[melissa1980]

Thank you, Dale_M, you are reaching to understand something with which I have continually dealt, little to no desire to use equipment which has from my earliest days seemed wrong for this body.

 

[St_Francis]

You should realize, of course, that transsexualism is neither hyper-transvestism nor hyper-homosexuality. Transsexualism has nothing to do with sexual desire.

Yes, that is what I have learned from Zoe and Aspawloski.

 

[Dale_M]

Yes, that is what I have learned from Zoe and Aspawloski.

Oh, okay.

I’m sorry I questioned your statement.

 

[PrincessKatrina]

What you ask about is actually a big fight in the the trans community. Some transsexuals are very clear that they adhere to the gender binary: the two sexes as laid out in Genesis. Others are more open-minded and see gender as being a spectrum.

Officially, the T in LGBT stands for “Transgender” which would include transsexuals, but also those who don’t complete their genital surgery (but live full-time as the opposite sex) as well as cross-dressers and transvestites, who are simply temporary visitors in the land of the opposite sex (in which they were born.) And yes, some of these transvestites or cross-dressers are motivated by sexual desire, which is not the case of transsexuals.

So you are correct. The inclusion of the T in the LGBT umbrella is problematic. Many transsexuals object to their inclusion in this group.

I wonder if transsexuals seek the shelter of the LGBT community because the general population is so unaccepting. If the general population were more accepting of transsexuals, perhaps that would split them away from the gay community.

The Trans Community seeks shelter with the LGB community because “we are all beat up/killed by the same people.” There is safety in numbers.

 

[Shaken]

What I notice is the rage in posts about this and related topics elsewhere and surprisingly here, too. I am sure God loves all people and that all have a chance at reaching heaven. I don’t think one type of sexual sin is so much worse than any of the others.

The rage is another sin and Catholics know what to do about sins.

 

[GW]

This is a related oft-asked question:

How Does Gay Marriage Law Hurt Heterosexuals and their Families?

Answer: tinyurl.com/qs7vfy

 

[aspawloski4th]

This is a related oft-asked question:

How Does Gay Marriage Law Hurt Heterosexuals and their Families?

Answer: tinyurl.com/qs7vfy

This has nothing to do with transsexualism whatsoever! Homosexuality , and transsexuality are two different things, not related to eachother at all. Quite frankly I’m sick and tired of them being lumped together. Why people just assume things rather than read up on them when they know not much is byond me.

 

[melissa1980]

This has nothing to do with transsexualism whatsoever! Homosexuality , and transsexuality are two different things, not related to eachother at all. Quite frankly I’m sick and tired of them being lumped together. Why people just assume things rather than read up on them when they know not much is byond me.

It is just too easy to click a post without reading sometimes. Frankly, that has been part of the history here as well. I agree, we could do with staying on point and well thought additions. The homosexuality thread belongs nowhere in this thread, let alone associated with those who are transsexed within society at large. We could do with a good bit of distance away from that topic.

 

[aspawloski4th]

It is just too easy to click a post without reading sometimes. Frankly, that has been part of the history here as well. I agree, we could do with staying on point and well thought additions. The homosexuality thread belongs nowhere in this thread, let alone associated with those who are transsexed within society at large. We could do with a good bit of distance away from that topic.

Yes Iv’e alread experienced a lot of grief because of false association with that subject.

 

[St_Francis]

The problem is the consequeces have made me loose my job and put my transition on hold. And some wonder why our suicide rate is so high. Now I’m forced into malehood to find a job. Where if I lived in a place like they are proposing for the No judgement project , I’d be transitioning and not loosing my way to make a living on account of it… When No judgement opens up for settlement. When I leave Grand Rapids for good, I’m shaking the dust off my feet or maybe even throwing my shoes out as a sign of my protest. With all the services for transpeople planned , I plan to be involved with transchildren, which is more meaningful than working reuler job making some greedy hellhound more moey.

I think that sometimes we can get involved in our problems and forget to handle them in a Catholic way. I know a family who because of the downturn in the economy lost their work. They had to move back in with relatives as a result, and lost all their savings because their house took several months to sell after they had moved out for a buyer who backed out. Then one of their children was diagnosed with leukemia… “luckily” the one with the best survival rate of 85%.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that, yes, you have your problems, but it’s not like the only people in the world who have problems are transsexuals. And consider that while you may have had to put your transition on hold, you live in a time when you can actually do that, whereas if you had been born during the vast majority of human history, you’d be stuck forever.

Yes, it is true that many people, like me, have a lot of misconceptions. But if you allow that to embitter you, then you will not be helping the situation. It takes time. God sends us crosses to bear, each of us has them, and He also sends grace to help us with them. Use this time to get closer to Him and be more at peace. Thank Him that you are living now rather than a century ago.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I think that sometimes we can get involved in our problems and forget to handle them in a Catholic way. I know a family who because of the downturn in the economy lost their work. They had to move back in with relatives as a result, and lost all their savings because their house took several months to sell after they had moved out for a buyer who backed out. Then one of their children was diagnosed with leukemia… “luckily” the one with the best survival rate of 85%.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that, yes, you have your problems, but it’s not like the only people in the world who have problems are transsexuals. And consider that while you may have had to put your transition on hold, you live in a time when you can actually do that, whereas if you had been born during the vast majority of human history, you’d be stuck forever.

Yes, it is true that many people, like me, have a lot of misconceptions. But if you allow that to embitter you, then you will not be helping the situation. It takes time. God sends us crosses to bear, each of us has them, and He also sends grace to help us with them. Use this time to get closer to Him and be more at peace. Thank Him that you are living now rather than a century ago.

If I lived a century ago,I’d likely be dead by now. Iv’e had 35 kidneystones in my life and one had to be operated on to be removed or it would of caused the kidney to die. Because of the way family relations are right now, if we were to loose our home, we would be out on the street, and my wife has multiple health problems including being diebetic. She take a shot for her arthraitis that is required to be refridgerated, without that medication she is bed ridden. With all that in mind. I have a special ed history partly on account of having a learning disability that makes it hard for me to multitask.

 

[GW]

Transsexuality just gets into the bizarre realm of human behavior, which is why it’s despised. There are innate human norms, usually a range of acceptability, and then it goes twisted. For sexuality among humans, the vast overwhelming norm is reproduction. When you stray too far from that it begins to strike against biology.

MarriageNewsNow.com has a poll about why marriage law is necessary to society, and most of the reasons involve children. It’s just common sense, and it exposes that gay marriage gets astray from nature/biology.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Transsexuality just gets into the bizarre realm of human behavior, which is why it’s despised. There are innate human norms, usually a range of acceptability, and then it goes twisted. For sexuality among humans, the vast overwhelming norm is reproduction. When you stray too far from that it begins to strike against biology.

MarriageNewsNow.com has a poll about why marriage law is necessary to society, and most of the reasons involve children. It’s just common sense, and it exposes that gay marriage gets astray from nature/biology.

First in the past marriage in most societies had nothing to do with love, it was preplanned, for strategic type purposes. And really marriage has little to do with the issue at hand. As for sexuality it is a feel good thing and reproduction is an accepted result of it.
What I’m discussing in this thread is gender identity, not sexual attraction. 2 things as different from eachother as trees and toasters. Transsexualism is a condition where the mind and soul are not congruent with the rest of the body. What makes a humanbeing essence of who they are and their identity its the mind not body! But our ultra superficial society with all the enlightenment there is to spread around still insists on body.

 

[MarkInOregon]

We most certainly are equating “This Cross” to Autism. Scientific studies indicate that they have similar causes. It’s something that occurs to the brain in the womb.
You believe that this is something that we choose, don’t you?? I don’t think the issue is whether you chose it or are born with it–that has little bearing on whether something is right or wrong. Exampleand this example in no way is meant to speak to the issue of TS or to equate it with the example–the example simply illustrates that being born with something doesn’t make it right or give it moral ligitamacy) Many Pedophiles will tell you they don’t chose to be attracted to children–they can’t help it–they were born that way. Now even if they were born that way–that would not make pedophilia right. (though I am sure someday as our society “progresses” someone will try to advance that argument)
It would seem it would be more fruitful to study the nature of TS - is this a brain problem–where we should seek to cure the brain or is it a body defect (like being born with a cleft palate) that we should try to repair? I have no idea. A follow-up question would be – if it turns out to be a brain problem–one that cannot yet be corrected (say like autism) is it o.k to attempt to mitigate the problems caused by the brain problem by altering the body? Again I don’t know.

If so, why is it that children of pre-school age know that they are not the gender their bodies indicate??
How could they possibly be making that choice??
And BTW, some of these children have been psychoanalyzed, prayed over, counceled, received “shock” therapy. All in an effort to “cure” them. To drive out the devil. Only to have them hurt themselves or commit suicide. The lucky ones finally come to terms with who and what they are and have it fixed. Do any come to terms with who and what they are and decide to bear the suffering? Is that person not also “lucky”?

 

[hyflyer64]

Originally Posted by hyflyer64
We most certainly are equating “This Cross” to Autism. Scientific studies indicate that they have similar causes. It’s something that occurs to the brain in the womb.You believe that this is something that we choose, don’t you??
I don’t think the issue is whether you chose it or are born with it–that has little bearing on whether something is right or wrong. Example (and this example in no way is meant to speak to the issue of TS or to equate it with the example–the example simply illustrates that being born with something doesn’t make it right or give it moral ligitamacy) Many Pedophiles will tell you they don’t chose to be attracted to children–they can’t help it–they were born that way. Now even if they were born that way–that would not make pedophilia right. (though I am sure someday as our society “progresses” someone will try to advance that argument)
It would seem it would be more fruitful to study the nature of TS - is this a brain problem–where we should seek to cure the brain or is it a body defect (like being born with a cleft palate) that we should try to repair? I have no idea. A follow-up question would be – if it turns out to be a brain problem–one that cannot yet be corrected (say like autism) is it o.k to attempt to mitigate the problems caused by the brain problem by altering the body? Again I don’t know.
If so, why is it that children of pre-school age know that they are not the gender their bodies indicate??
How could they possibly be making that choice??
And BTW, some of these children have been psychoanalyzed, prayed over, counceled, received “shock” therapy. All in an effort to “cure” them. To drive out the devil. Only to have them hurt themselves or commit suicide. The lucky ones finally come to terms with who and what they are and have it fixed.
Do any come to terms with who and what they are and decide to bear the suffering? Is that person not also “lucky”?

Mark,
First off, most of your questions/opinions are extreemly well covered by Zoe.
Also, if you do read Zoe’s posts, you will see overwelming evidence that points to the fact that we are in fact born this way. It is not just something that we say and it is NOT a psychological disorder and you will then “know”. Whether or not you accept that evidence…
“Pedophilia (or paedophilia) is defined as a psychological disorder in which an adult experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children.”
I don’t know of any “true-transexuals” who have " come to terms with who and what they are and decide to bear the suffering". I do know some who for medical and/or financial reasons are having to “bear the suffering”.
YOU would not want to be in their shoes.
Last but not least, if you read my posts on this subject, especially “What is the Churches Position etc…”, you will see a reference to a Vatican document stating that “in extreme cases” SRS would be morally acceptable. That being the case, why would one want to “bear the suffering”??

Rachel