Transubstantiation Analogy form OT to NT

  • Thread starter Thread starter Catholic_Author
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
JReducation said:
That’s because you don’t have to sterilize everything and prepare all the food from scratch and take it to be blessed by the Rabbi. You can come help me get ready. I have only two weeks and two hands. :eek:

JR 🙂
Click to expand...
I would love to come and help out but I live on the left coast. I can’t afford the gasoline to and from, and Pasche would be long since past before I could get there on foot. I will be with you in spirit.😉
 
I have a question about something I proposed in an apologetics thread on the Eucharist.

I am wondering if there is a connection between the hidden Jesus in the Eucharist and the incident with the apostle Thomas

–John the Baptist proclaims Jesus to be the “lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.”[Jn 1:29]

–John the Baptist says that “'He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. And I have **seen **and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.”[Jn 1:33-34]

–The next day John the Baptist again declares “Behold, the Lamb of God!”[Jn 1:36]

–as the twelve apostles are called by Jesus there is recognition that he is the messiah. Nathaniel even says, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”[Jn 1:49]

–Jesus tells the woman at the well that he is the messiah. The woman at the well tells her fellow Samaratins about Jesus and many believe in him. Some of them listen to Jesus and then tell the woman “It is no longer because of your words that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world.” [Jn 4:26-43].

In John 6:36 Jesus says, “But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.”

In John 9:35-38 we read about Jesus and the blind man whose sight Jesus restored. It says, " Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, “Do you believe in the Son of man?” He answered, “And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?” Jesus said to him, “You have seen him, and it is he who speaks to you.” He said, “Lord, I believe”; and he worshiped him."

Finally, in John 20:28-29 we read about Thomas where it says, "Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.”

Some have seen Jesus but did not believe while some saw Jesus and did believe. We are told, however, that blessed are those that have not seen Him and yet believe. We have the testimony of scripture and we have Jesus in the Eucharist. Jesus is hidden and we cannot see Him. We must look beyond the appearances of bread and wine and believe the words of our Savior.

Are these connections sound, or is this a bit of a stretch?
 
I think this is fantastic Pax! I will ponder it for a while but I do not expect to find an objection. I think you covered most of the bases:
believers who see
believers who do not see
non believers who do not see
non believers who see

There is only one more sub-category to add I think… non believers who do not see but say that they see… like the Pharisees.

*Then Jesus said, “I came into this world for judgment, so that those who do not see might see, and those who do see might become blind.”

Some of the Pharisees who were with him heard this and said to him, “Surely we are not also blind, are we?”

Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you are saying, ‘We see,’ so your sin remains.* John 9:39-41
 
Tim,

Thanks for the kind words…if you have anything more to add I love to “see” it.
 
Dr. Peter Kreeft paraphrased J.R.R. Tolkien when quoting his well known essay On Fairy-Stories saying, “The Gospel has not abrogated legends, myths, fairy stories but it has hallowed them, especially the eucatastrophy, the happy ending, because of course the resurrection is the eucatastrophy of the incarnation and the incarnation is the eucatastrophy of creation.”

It is Kreeft who is coining the phrase euchatastrophy and Kreeft who applies Tolkien’s meaning to the resurrection, incarnation and creation. This reminded me of this thread where I tried to show parallels between creation and the life/death/resurrection of Christ as a new creation or re-creation. I hope it makes a happy ending of this thread too.
 
I had a few more thoughts on this topic that faded away and am wondering if they are reasonable. They both concern the fire that Elijah called down from heaven to consume the sacrifice:

“The LORD’S fire came down and consumed the holocaust, wood, stones, and dust, and it lapped up the water in the trench. Seeing this, all the people fell prostrate and said, “The LORD is God! The LORD is God!”” ~ 1Kings 18:38, 39

First Thought
When Elijah calls down fire to consume the sacrifice it is tied in with judgment for the people who have fallen to worshiping false idols. This may be likened to the responsibility we have to discern rightly the Body and Blood of Christ.

“For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.” ~ 1 Cor 11:29

Second Thought
The sacrifice is completely consumed. In other words nothing of the substance/ material of the offering remained and in this act the people recognized God. The same thing is described in the Catholic definition of Transubstantiation; the substance of bread is no longer there… it is “consumed” if you will. The people in Elijah’s day fell prostrate and exclaimed, “the Lord is God”. They understood that God demonstrated His presence at this altar and “consumed” the offering. In other words it was God who substituted Himself for the offering just as He substituted the ram for Isaac. Where Isaac was the ram now is… where the offering was the Lord now is.

Notes:
Remember that I said the same thing of the presence of God in the cloud of glory (Ex 16:10) over the desert where Moses had the Israelites present themselves. The next day the manna fell in the same place (the desert) where the Glory for the Lord had been (Ex 16:14)

In post 176 Pax mentioned that Elijah was like the Spirit of God. Well that’s fitting…continuing the theme… at the Eucharistic prayer the priest asks that the Holy Spirit bless our offering so that it may become for us the Body and Blood of Christ.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top