I know exactly how you feel Carol:thumbsup:See reply.
Yes, sir! Between the Ethiopian’s sufficient belief, and his baptism into the faith, there is a very short contretemps with Phillip. It was sufficient for him to say *I believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. *Simple as that. Me, I have to go through the aftermath of 2000 years of thinking, praying, contemplation, scholarship, infallible bulls etc., to understand the essence of the faith, and to join the Church in all honesty.
This was for Iowa Mike - think that’s clear. Sorry.
See above. I just wish, I suppose, that it was rather more pleasant to be with Christ than it is at present, undergoing this kind of Inquisition. I really thought I would find help. Instead I find a very rocky road indeed, with little succour. I try to follow Christ’s examples, but am completely thrown off-base.
Yes, of course, eternal life. We must take Jesus at His word:
This is an interesting comment I think. Do you believe that partaking of the Eucharist will give you eternal life?
Or is it all part, and perhaps the ultimate confirmation of, our lives as Christians, bringing us into full intimacy with Christ?
I am not sure that I would agree that it is the Eucharist which bestows a guarantee of life everlasting.
Please try and keep your temper in check. The tone of your post is extremely defensive. The use of indignation and invective is unnecessary in civil discourse. The term Mushy Catholic is indeed an invective because it is negative in tone. I sure people that throw around such epithets arn’t offended by them but the people on the receiving end are. Your comment to me that I am ignorant isn’t very charitable either. In these posts you are the only person that I see using such invectives and provocative and/or offensive descriptions in an effort support your beliefs. You should think about that.We must all be open to learning: that’s why I’m asking questions here. *Mushy Catholic’ *is *not *invective, and you know it: you are not one, nor will I be.
With respect to my beliefs I refer you to the Bible and to the CCC. These are the faith based sources of my beliefs. I suggest you study them as part of your journey. As far as containing literal truths, can you prove the existance of God?I have no idea who you are, why you are, and have no interest in rejecting your thus-far unknown beliefs. Are they worth hearing - do they contain literal truths? Or is it more
Only uninformed ones.I think there are lots of Catholics who do not even *think *about transubstantiation.
You seem sensitive about this point yet it is you that is picking one thing to believe while rejecting others out of hand. There are many Catholic dissident groups that hold views similar to yours. Some of them have been excommunicated by Rome so I think this label is appropriate. To be a faithful Catholic you must accept all of the teachings and doctrines of the Church. I think you have much to learn about the faith and pray that you are open to doing so.What makes you say I pick and choose? … Cafeteria Christian? …Get a new one(description)!
I do worry because so many people fall prey to Catholic dissident groups. I suggest you make sure that your advisors beliefs are in communion with Rome.Thank you but I shall let my Bishop, my Jesuit colleagues, and my spiritual director be judges of that, as they walk with me. Please do not worry yourself.
Please go back and read your own words about transubstantiation…there was no question only ridicule and mocking language. I’m sorry if my posts are causing you pain and sorrow it is my hope they will help you grow.I did not dismiss! I asked a question! Read what is in front of you, please, before you commit further unjustice, and cause more sorrow and anger.
How dare you? This is a vicious comment if ever there was one. A Bishop of the Church, a Monsignor and Doctor of Canon Law, and a much-loved and saintly senior Jesuit?Iquote] do worry because so many people fall prey to Catholic dissident groups. I suggest you make sure that your advisors beliefs are in communion with Rome.
Check the log in your own eye.Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.
I have only two comments:
How dare you? This is a vicious comment if ever there was one. A Bishop of the Church, a Monsignor and Doctor of Canon Law, and a much-loved and saintly senior Jesuit?
Check the log in your own eye.
How very sad.
I am leaving the Forum and thank those who have helped me so much on my journey.
My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. …*That deep emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God. *Albert Einstein
I’m sorry to see you leave the forum in anger. I hope you come back when your ready to dialogue instead of proselytize. I wish you well on your journey and will pray for you.
My closing thoughts:
How dare you
I would be grateful before you leave that you would answer my questions in post #160, and if you do go, then farewell and may you find what your looking for.I am leaving the Forum and thank those who have helped me so much on my journey.
Unfortunately Carol hasn’t been big about answering questions.I would be grateful before you leave that you would answer my questions in post #160, and if you do go, then farewell and may you find what your looking for.
Gosh I found this on another thread, addressed to Iowa Mike and several other bullies!Unfortunately Carol hasn’t been big about answering questions. Iowa Mike
Well I may be misreading, but are you saying Iowa mike is a bully ?Gosh I found this on another thread, addressed to Iowa Mike and several other bullies!
I’m confused, nerfherder. Are you saying this text in blue was written by Carol Coombe? I can’t find the post. Can you provide the link? Also, I’m wondering how Carol’s post #148 in this thread appears under your user name. This was pointed out by Carol in post #149 without explanation. Can you shed light on that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa Mike
Transubstantiation is a Device of Man [Carol Coombe]
If I am a literalist, I would need a bit of Christ’s body to eat - His right finger? a left toe, a bit of hair? Disgusting thought, heinous sin, grotesque cannibalism.
And it goes on and on. If there was a question in there someplace I missed it. She was simply and emphatically throwing transubstantiation under the bus.Why? Understanding our Creator God, and the laws of nature, makes it clear that natural laws of the universe/multiverse are fixed and immutable. as far as we know. Our current belief is that God will not intervene in the physical, chemical or biological laws which He has established for all time. If He did, we would be confronted by chaos and anarchy. Our brains have likely not evolved sufficiently to catch up with the true magnificence of His creation - but they will. (Even if one believes He did not create the laws which Newton, Einstein, Hawking et al are defining for us, the laws are still immutable.
Horse hockey! I think you need to pray to the Holy Spirit to increase your faith. There is plenty of scripture that clearly supports transubstantiation starting with the Last Supper and I know loads of Catholics that are not struggling. The Catholic Church is a faith based religion e.g. the doctrines on Mary, transubstantiation, the resurrection, the ascention, the sacraments. In addition the Bible violates Carol’s ‘natural laws’ all over the place. The miracles of Jesus, etc. etc. To be a Catholic you can’t pick and choose what you want to believe…check it out with a good priest.This is just horse hockey, IowaMike. Faithful Catholics have struggled with Transubstantiation since the first century.
I beg to differ. I did not belittle Carol and anyone else. Read her original post and my last post to guanophoe (#171).Gosh I found this on another thread, addressed to Iowa Mike and several other bullies!
This is my last post in this thread. Many of you I feel give Catholics a terrible name. Not because of your beliefs. You beliefs are dead on with what I think God expects from us.
I am embarrassed because people with these views condemn people with different views and try and belittle them into changing.
First of all just as a person you should never do that. Just because you do not agree with someone else’s views, and sometimes view there opinions as wrong and maybe sick you have to respect there formed view. If you do not you have no ability to have a discussion and make points to change the other persons ideas.
Second, (this is basic human psychology) You need to discuss and make points about why your view is right and move on. But trying to belittle an opinion, you turn the other person defensive and the other person will then not sway from their opinion no matter what points you make as good as they are. Why is this? because you need to attack the argument. People will change what they believe a million times on everything if the facts are good. But if you make the person making the argument feel bad, then they will stick with their opinion because they are no longer defending their opinion but defending themselves. By doing that you just did more harm because if ever that person hears a good point they will always think back to when they were attacked and know if they change opinions, they were right to be belittled. No one wants that.
Yes, that is what I am saying, on the evidence of his behaviour on this thread, and elsewhere on the Forum. If you check his postings, you will see what I mean.Well I may be misreading, but are you saying Iowa mike is a bully ?
GarbageI beg to differ. I did not belittle Carol and anyone else. Read her original post and my last post to guanophoe (#171).
Any person who puts up a thread like Carol’s “Transubstantiation is a Device of Man” should expect vigorous debate. I won’t apologize for vigorously defending the faith against such an obvious attack on one of its tenants. She didn’t ask a question she delivered a condescending, prostelizing diatribe against transubstantiation.
Iowa Mike
Member **hlmem **posted this reply to Iowa Mike on Feb 10, '07, 6:07 am on a thread entitled A little Rant. Check other threads if you want. If you follow Iowa Mike through threads you will find examples of similar bullying behaviour.I’m confused, nerfherder. Are you saying this text in blue was written by Carol Coombe? I can’t find the post. Can you provide the link?
Actually, Mike, I am responsible for the thread. I moved a message from another thread, and put up the title myself. I was not attempting to explain Carol’s remarks, but pleading for some mercy on her behalf. I realize the manner of the posts comes across as condescending at times, and was trying to get you to look past that to the deeper motives and yearning to understand.Please guanophore,
Thank you but I don’t need you to explain Carol’s remarks. I have carefully read her words and I understand her context. If you go back and read her original thread you will see that it asks no questions. Instead she delivers, beginning with the title, a condescending, prostelizing diatribe attacking one of the core tenants of the Catholic Faith. Perhaps she would have been better served to take a more inquisitive position and titled her thread…“Is Transubstantiation a Device of Man?” Instead she chose the following:
I do not disagree with your view of the term Mushy Catholic, and I did address that in a PM. I don’t think anything you posted was vicious or bullying either. Vigorous is a good word.And it goes on and on. If there was a question in there someplace I missed it. She was simply and emphatically throwing transubstantiation under the bus.
So far on this forum I’ve been called ignorant, a bully, vicious and a Mushy Catholic (contrary to your view Mushy Catholic is an invective because of the context in which she used it). I don’t recall myself or any other so called forum ‘bully’ using this kind of invective or crass and provocative language to make their points. As far as I’m concerned she and you shouldn’t be surprised by the vigorous response.
I do pray for this daily, Mike, and I was not saying that there are not supports for transubstantiation. I am talking about the struggle of trying to get one’s mind around it. I have never been able to do it, and I maybe never will. I don’t know that Carol will either, and I am not sure it is necessary. It is a mystery, and sometimes the intellect stumbles most majorly on the mysteries.Horse hockey! I think you need to pray to the Holy Spirit to increase your faith. There is plenty of scripture that clearly supports transubstantiation starting with the Last Supper and I know loads of Catholics that are not struggling.
I was not suggesting that one should. And I agree with you, it is a matter of faith. Where I see Carol’s struggle, and I see with a number of faithful, is trying to reconcile faith with reason. She has been endowed with a strong rational sense, and as for other similar people, this sometimes is a stumbling block. I think maybe Nicodemus was this way…thinking to literally, maybe? I was just pleading for mercy for this.The Catholic Church is a faith based religion e.g. the doctrines on Mary, transubstantiation, the resurrection, the ascention, the sacraments. In addition the Bible violates Carol’s ‘natural laws’ all over the place. The miracles of Jesus, etc. etc. To be a Catholic you can’t pick and choose what you want to believe…check it out with a good priest.
Thanks. I finally decided that I don’t need to understand, just accept. She has not gotten there yet, and I read yesterday that she decided not to enter the church at Easter. I was disappointed, but I realize how important it is to her to get more of this sorted out in herself, and to be less conflicted before participating in the initiatory rites. thank you for your post.Last thing…I’ll pray that Carol and you find your way through.
Iowa Mike.
I did expect vigorous debate, and I guess it did help. It helped her right off the list of the Elect! I suppose this is an issue for another thread, but I am also in amazement about the suggestion that God does not interfere with His natural laws. After reading another post on this yesterday, I think I have a clearer undrestanding of the source of that, but I really can’t say that I have any good response for that.I beg to differ. I did not belittle Carol and anyone else. Read her original post and my last post to guanophoe (#171).
Any person who puts up a thread like Carol’s “Transubstantiation is a Device of Man” should expect vigorous debate. I won’t apologize for vigorously defending the faith against such an obvious attack on one of its tenants. She didn’t ask a question she delivered a condescending, prostelizing diatribe against transubstantiation.
Iowa Mike
I’m sorry but I consider that sophistry. Everything as much as possible should be delivered in Christian love, and I know I don’t always live up to that standard either.Any person who puts up a thread like Carol’s “Transubstantiation is a Device of Man” should expect vigorous debate. I won’t apologize for vigorously defending the faith against such an obvious attack on one of its tenants. She didn’t ask a question she delivered a condescending, prostelizing diatribe against transubstantiation.
Invective and mean spirited comments…always a sure sign of a sore loser.Yes, that is what I am saying, on the evidence of his behaviour on this thread, and elsewhere on the Forum. If you check his postings, you will see what I mean.
Perhaps it is an adrenalin rush for him - sort of like a rugby player?
Jack,I’m sorry but I consider that sophistry. Everything as much as possible should be delivered in Christian love, and I know I don’t always live up to that standard either.
Being defensive like this will drive people away from the Church. I know the defensive reaction is to say “good riddance” anyway.