Transubstantiation vs Magic

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donanobis

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How would you explain to someone who doesn’t know, is into occult practices or is inquiring about the Catholic Faith

** What is the difference between transubstantiation and magic?**

Just an example:
Someone asked me "Why not Reiki?. I said “it is magic,energy manipulation”.They inquired “Then what is your Holy Communion??”.

dona

Give your opinion in the standard vs flexible poll
 
The difference is the Source. Transubstantiation is what God does.
 
donanobis said:
How would you explain to someone who doesn’t know, is into occult practices or is inquiring about the Catholic Faith

** What is the difference between transubstantiation and magic?**

Just an example:
Someone asked me "Why not Reiki?. I said “it is magic,energy manipulation”.They inquired “Then what is your Holy Communion??”.

dona

Give your opinion in the standard vs flexible poll
Click to expand...
Magic–mans attempt to manipulate nature by occult means and if such occurs it will be by demons (fallen angels).

The Eucharist --by the Holy Spirit
 
donanobis said:
How would you explain to someone who doesn’t know, is into occult practices or is inquiring about the Catholic Faith

** What is the difference between transubstantiation and magic?**

Just an example:
Someone asked me "Why not Reiki?. I said “it is magic,energy manipulation”.They inquired “Then what is your Holy Communion??”.

dona

Give your opinion in the standard vs flexible poll
Click to expand...
As another aspect on the “source” issue.

In “magic” the object is to manipulate for the purpose of doing “Our Will”. The source is selfish and ego - centric.
In Transubstantiation, the object is to conform to the will of God, not ours, and to do as He commanded. The source is Deo-centric.

This can be applied to any aspect of spirituality vs magic.
In Spirituality we ask God for favors, but always pray - “Thy Will be Done”
In magic we ask “the universe” for favors but expect - “my will be done”.

Peace
James
 
donanobis said:
How would you explain to someone who doesn’t know, is into occult practices or is inquiring about the Catholic Faith

** What is the difference between transubstantiation and magic?**

Just an example:
Someone asked me "Why not Reiki?. I said “it is magic,energy manipulation”.They inquired “Then what is your Holy Communion??”.

dona

Give your opinion in the standard vs flexible poll
Click to expand...
God’s Mysteries are not easily explained. Try the meaning of the theoligical virtues of faith, hope, and charity.
 
The words “Hocus Pocus” are actually a takeoff from the Latin words of consecration so I can understand the public’s fascination of the Mass as some magical event.

I don’t know how to counter this perception but there is something the Vatican did several years ago that has somewhat pacified the Christian world. They approved a Rite (Chaldean) which has no traditional words of Consecration, which to me says that the entire canon is what is to be adhered to, not a couple of breathtaking moments to be fascinated with.
 
ProVobis said:
**The words “Hocus Pocus” are actually a takeoff from the Latin words of consecration **so I can understand the public’s fascination of the Mass as some magical event.

(Snip)
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Could you tell me which words this is taken from?

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
Could you tell me which words this is taken from?

Peace
James
Click to expand...
“Hoc Est Enim Corpus Meum”

There’s a great t-shirt that says "What part of Hoc Est Enim Corpus Meum don’t you understand?
 
ProVobis said:
The words “Hocus Pocus” are actually a takeoff from the Latin words of consecration so I can understand the public’s fascination of the Mass as some magical event.

I don’t know how to counter this perception but there is something the Vatican did several years ago that has somewhat pacified the Christian world. They approved a Rite (Chaldean) which has no traditional words of Consecration, which to me says that the entire canon is what is to be adhered to, not a couple of breathtaking moments to be fascinated with.
Click to expand...
That’s actually a very good point. I always though that the formula of consecration was the high point of the Mass but the example you cite makes me wonder. If I recall correctly, though there are no “traditional words of Consecrations” it was said that this particular Eucharistic prayer had an implicit intent to “do what the Church intends” even though the words of Consecration are not specific. It makes one wonder…🙂
 
In general, I would define magic as the manipulation of forces under the control of the operator to produce a desired result.

Religious acts (like confecting the Eucharist) are different. A deity is petitioned to act on our behalf or that of others. We are not in control of the deity. The deity acts at his own pleasure.

Bread and wine do not become the Body and Blood of Christ because the priest has a personal power to make that happen. They happen because God honors a promise to be present in the elements when the correct form is followed by a proper minister. If the Eucharist were magic, the priest might command Christ to impose himself upon the elements or suffer punishment.

But the priest does no such thing. He asks the Holy Spirit to descend upon the gifts and become the Body and Blood. That this miracle happens reliably and that people trust in it doesn’t make it magic. It’s simply God holding up his end of the bargain.
 
At_Trent said:
🙂 I’d like to have one of those shirts .
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About halfway down the page (after “Catholicism: Can’t beat the real thing”.) From Agnuswholesale.com.

agnuswholesale.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=12&zenid=96kspg4putlih55glu7vvq3gj7

I just noticed that you have to order 12 or more at the wholesale site. I think cafepress also has this, or try the retail site at www.agnusgiftshop.com.

One last edit…in the regular gift shop (the second link) there are all sorts of options, including hoodies. This is the first time I’ve looked. There’s lots to see there.
 
The OP topic seems to have changed, almost like magic!:confused:
Incomplete said:
About halfway down the page (after “Catholicism: Can’t beat the real thing”.) From Agnuswholesale.com.

agnuswholesale.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=12&zenid=96kspg4putlih55glu7vvq3gj7

I just noticed that you have to order 12 or more at the wholesale site. I think cafepress also has this, or try the retail site at www.agnusgiftshop.com.

One last edit…in the regular gift shop (the second link) there are all sorts of options, including hoodies. This is the first time I’ve looked. There’s lots to see there.
Click to expand...
 
The answers seemed to have deteriorated from the OP. If someone should ask I’ll should send them to Cafepress to get a recommended tee shirt??. :confused:
 
donanobis said:
The answers seemed to have deteriorated from the OP. If someone should ask I’ll should send them to Cafepress to get a recommended tee shirt??. :confused:
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obviously a slight detour there.

How have answers been so far.

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
obviously a slight detour there.

How have answers been so far.

Peace
James
Click to expand...
I thought the ‘hocus pocus’ response was informative until it came to selling t-shirts.

Your original answer “our will” vs “God’s will” seems like a good response. The Anglicans answer was also very well thought out. Explaining the epiclesis is abstract and abstracts are a bit slippery.

What do you say to someone who calls you a “cookie worshiper?” Is there anything that can be said?

dona

Standardized vs Flexilble - take the poll
 
donanobis said:
I thought the ‘hocus pocus’ response was informative until it came to selling t-shirts.

Your original answer “our will” vs “God’s will” seems like a good response. The Anglicans answer was also very well thought out. Explaining the epiclesis is abstract and abstracts are a bit slippery.

**What do you say to someone who calls you a “cookie worshiper?” Is there anything that can be said? **

dona

Standardized vs Flexilble - take the poll
Click to expand...
Not really.
Such comments are inflamatory and emotional. They are made by ignorant or uniformed people and are designed to “get your goat” rather to engage in realistic and charitable discussion or debate. Your best bet is to either ignore the comment altogether or simply ask them if “name calling” is the best argument they can come up with.

Peace
James
 
donanobis said:
What do you say to someone who calls you a “cookie worshiper?” Is there anything that can be said?
Click to expand...
Those who receive just because everyone else in church receives are just that. Those who receive properly disposed knowing WHOM they receive and why they receive are far from worshipping false gods.
 
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