uhhuh. Hoboy. Cobalt do you really believe what you write here?
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+++++Yes, I know there is wine with drunkeness in the scriptures but this wine I do not believe was the aged, fermented wine…I gave you the definations from W.E. Vines, Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words…from the original Hebrew/Greek.
This is one of the ways to understand God’s Word…you have to have the origianl words defined…The wedding is the one being discussed and the wine had not had time ferment …like I asked…do you think Jesus was advocating drunkness at the wedding from the very first miracle he performed? ?
I guess if that blew your mind then how about this:
LUKE 22:17-18
" And He took a cup, and when He had given thanks, He said, Take this and divide and distribute it among yourselves; 18 For I say to you that from now on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine at all until the kingdome of God comes." Amplified Bible
King James: “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.”
NIV "17 "After, taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you, 18 For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
Jesus plainly says he will not drink of the fruit of the vine…thus the reason many non-catholic church’s do not use wine when receiving the body and blood of Christ. OR why many born again Christians take it upon themselves not to drink…and/or to do it in the privacy of their homes and in very moderate amounts. And it is a policy with these church’s that the pastor does not drink even in moderation…he couldn’t preach Christ not drinking if he is still drinking.
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This is only tangentially related to the OP but let me make a few quick statements to get you realigned to the truth.
In Genesis 9:20-21, the Scripture states, “Noah a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. When he drank some of its wine he became
drunk and lay uncovered inside of his tent.” Clearly this was “wine” as we conventionally know it and not grape juice.
Genesis 14:18 states, “…and Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and
wine; and he was the Priest of the most high God.” To this day through the consecration prayers of a Hierarchical Priest in a Catholic Mass, the bread and wine become the Body-Blood-Soul-and-Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ!.
In Exodus 29:40, Sacred Scripture gives affirmation that wine is used for a libation. Yes, wine is used in a spiritual offering. Just as wine was used in the Old Testament for offerings to God, bread and wine are used in every Catholic Mass for the magnificent sacrificial offering to the Father.
In Genesis 19:32, Lot’s daughter states, “Come, let us make our Father drink wine and we will lie with him.”
In Leviticus 10:8-9, Almighty God speaks to Aaron telling him not to drink wine or strong drink
when going into a tent meeting. Notice that God tells him to abstain from drinking wine which contained alcohol.
2 Samuel 16:2, Sacred Scripture gives evidence that wine was used as an antidote for weariness, for those who faint in the wilderness.
In 2 Chronicles 11:11, Sacred Scripture gives evidence that wine was used as a beverage for the soldiers.
In Nehemiah 2:1-4, Sacred Scripture here gives evidence that Nehemiah had wine taken up to King Artaxerxes. Wine was a drink for kings.
Proverbs 31:4 also gives affirmation wine was a drink for kings. In Esther 1:7, Sacred Scripture gives evidence that royal wine was lavished in accordance to the bounty of the king.
Recall the Jewish woman Judith. Judith brought about the salvation of her people when they were threatened by the army of Holofernes. Judith 12:10-20 to Judith13: 1-9 gives affirmative evidence that the Holofernes who was the chief general in the army of Nebuchadnezzar and second to him, drank excessive wine and got drunk before Judith cut the head off Holofernes with a sword. Surely Holofernes did not get drunk on grape juice. Unfortunately (for) you Protestants deleted The book of Judith from Sacred Scriptures.
In Song of Songs 4:10, Sacred Scripture gives evidence that love is better than wine. Notice how love is compared with wine and we are told love is better. If wine did not contain alcohol that would make one feel sentimental or melancholy, why would the Biblical text use it in this manner? Surely grape juice would not make one feel sentimental or melancholy.
Proverbs 20:1: “Wine is a mocker and beer is a brawler whoever is lead astray by them is not wise.” Sacred Scripture, the Church, and reason absolutely teach that wine, when used in moderation, is a blessing from God. When it is used excessively, it is an abomination. Drunkenness is sinful! Isaiah 5:11: “Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them.” Isaiah 5:22: “Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks.” Isaiah 28:1-7 gives absolute definitive affirmation regarding drunkenness.
Tobit 4:15 states, “Do not drink wine to excess or let drunkenness go with you on your way.” Proverbs 23:20-21 states, “Be not among winebibbers, or among gluttonous eaters of meat, for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty.” Sirach 31:28-30 states, “Wine drunk in season and temperately is rejoicing of heart and gladness of soul. Wine drunk to excess is bitterness of soul, with provocation and stumbling.” Habakkuk 2:5 gives definitive affirmation that wine is a betrayer. “He that transgresseth by wine is prideful.” In Habakkuk 2:15, Scripture states, “Woe to him who makes his neighbors drink of the cup of wrath, and makes them drunk!” Proverbs 21:17 gives definitive evidence that he who loves pleasure; he who loves wine will never be rich. Proverbs 23:32 warns of wine’s influence and end. It “biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder”. Hosea 4:11 “Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.” In Ephesians 5:18 St. Paul exhorts, “Do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; for be filled with the Spirit!” 1 Tim.3:8 gives evidence that Deacons must not indulge in much wine. Titus 2:3 gives evidence that the older women be reverent in behavior and walk in holiness, not be slanderers and drink too much wine. In 1 Peter 4:2-3, St. Peter states, “Do not live in the human passions of the flesh, but live in the will of God. Do not live like the Gentiles do, living in licentiousness, passions, drunkenness, revels, carousing, and lawless idolatry.”
There are MANY more cases in scripture that make the distinction of wine and grape juice and show that moderation in drinking wine is acceptable and wine is actually a drink that is integral with worship from time immemorial.
More here:
Wine or Grape Juice
James
