Transubstantiation

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There are some people who have an allergy to wheat or gluten and therefore will not receive the host. This confuses me. If transubstantiation is a true doctrine then that means that what appears to be bread is not bread…rather, it is the true flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. With that said, how could someone with a gluten allergy get sick from eating the host when it isn’t bread anymore?
 
There are some people who have an allergy to wheat or gluten and therefore will not receive the host. This confuses me. If transubstantiation is a true doctrine then that means that what appears to be bread is not bread…rather, it is the true flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. With that said, how could someone with a gluten allergy get sick from eating the host when it isn’t bread anymore?
Because the accidents of bread–the appearances of bread–remain. They are precisely the same before and after consecration. It is the substance that changes. The accidents remain.

But here’s the key: accidents are all that we can ever perceive–either before or after consecration. We never perceive substance directly. We perceive the accidents–those sense perceptions that can affect our senses.

Even if I perceive my brother standing in front of me, it is his accidents that I perceive–that which is perceptible to the senses. I can’t touch his substance with any of my senses directly.

Consequently, if we are allergic to the accidents of bread before the consecration, we will continue to be allergic to the accidents of bread after the consecration.
 
Just glad this topic doesn’t have the word mass in front of it,
 
Also, there are gluten free hosts available for consecration. I know a few people who are gluten free and arrange for this.
 
Also, there are gluten free hosts available for consecration. I know a few people who are gluten free and arrange for this.
Low gluten, but not gluten free. Valid matter for the Eucharist would never be entirely gluten free.
 
There are some people who have an allergy to wheat or gluten and therefore will not receive the host. This confuses me. If transubstantiation is a true doctrine then that means that what appears to be bread is not bread…rather, it is the true flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. With that said, how could someone with a gluten allergy get sick from eating the host when it isn’t bread anymore?
If the gluten in the host after consecration did not act as gluten in the same host prior to consecration, then the accidents of the host would have changed.

Transubstantiation is the belief that each and every accident of the bread and wine remain after the consecration, yet they are truly the Body and Blood of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

.
 
I am one of those unfortunate souls. Because the accidents remain the same, the body processes it the same way. The Eucharist feels the same as normal gluten, whether it is in my hand, mouth, or intestines. But the substance has become the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord. That actual substance is not perceptible to the senses.
 
I am one of those unfortunate souls. Because the accidents remain the same, the body processes it the same way. The Eucharist feels the same as normal gluten, whether it is in my hand, mouth, or intestines. But the substance has become the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord. That actual substance is not perceptible to the senses.
Do you receive the host or drink the wine?
 
Jesus is True Man
Jesus is True God

While Jesus was walking the Earth and preaching the Word, he was in every way possible physically the same as any other human. If you were to X-ray Jesus, if you were to perform a CAT scan on him, if you were to do a blood test on Jesus - all of these tests and observations would be indistinguishable from any other human. If you were to operate on Jesus, it is not like you would see some unique organ or “god-part” that made him divine. But, we know that Jesus was also God - and so not at all like any other human.

All of the sacraments in Church established by Christ have this very same nature.

If you were to analyze the Eucharist - it would physically appear just like any other bread, just like any other wine. But, we know - just like Christ - the Eucharist is completely unlike normal bread and wine.

If it did change, then it would be in opposition to the nature of Christ.
 
It’s ok folks,just my warped sense of humour ,I fell off the Clubhouse truck,
 
There are some people who have an allergy to wheat or gluten and therefore will not receive the host. This confuses me. If transubstantiation is a true doctrine then that means that what appears to be bread is not bread…rather, it is the true flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. With that said, how could someone with a gluten allergy get sick from eating the host when it isn’t bread anymore?
Hi praestat_fides 🙂

Catholic’s believe when at His Last Supper, Jesus said: “This is my body”, what he held in his hands still had all the appearances of bread: the “species” or “accidents” remained unchanged. However, when Jesus made that declaration, the underlying reality (the “substance”) of the bread was changed into that of his body, blood, soul and divinity. In other words, it actually was his body, blood, soul and divinity, while all the appearances open to the senses or to scientific investigation (accidents) were still those of bread, exactly as before. We believe the same change of the substance of the bread and of the wine occurs at the consecration of the Eucharist.

Thus they can still get sick from the accidents or species that remain. Thus those with gluten intolerance can also recieve under the accidents of wine.

Now, you might be thinking *“Well, Josh, thats not much, I could say my wooden desk transformed into a metallic seat, the accidents of my wooden desk remain but the substance of it is a metallic seat.” *However, this is where scripture comes into it (John 6) and the many Eucharistic Miracles (not to mention personal experience but we can’t exactly use that as it’s just that, personal experience) I believe we are reassured of this teaching through the so many Eucharistic Miracles that have taken place throughout the history of the Catholic Church, just like the people were reassured before such teaching by Jesus’ feeding of the five thousand men.

What are Eucharistic Miracles? Throughout the history of the Catholic Church, Jesus has proven beyond any doubt that He is truly present in the Holy Eucharist. Why did He have to prove this to us? It is because at certain times in history, there were heresies that denied the Real Presence in the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. On other occasions, some priests doubted the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. And yet, on other occasions, the Holy Eucharist was abused by believers and non-believers alike.

What follows are some of the Eucharistic Miracles that took place throughout the history of the Catholic Church. All of these have received the full approval of the Catholic Church.

Eucharistic Miracles of the World - therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm

I would like to draw particular attention to two recent Eucharistic Miracles that have undergone vigerous scientific analysis.

Eucharistic Miracle of Poland, Sokólka, October 12, 2008

Sokólka, October 12, 2008 (Part 1) – (PDF: 1.41M)
Sokólka, October 12, 2008 (Part 2) – (PDF: 1.31M)
Sokólka, October 12, 2008 (Part 3) – (PDF: 1.41M)

And the Eucharistic Miracles of Argentina, Buenos Aires, 1992 - 1994 - 1996

(note: The scientific investigations into this Eucharistic Miracle were actually instigated and latter the miracle officially approved by Pope Francis then known as the Argentina Archbishop Jorge Bergoglio).

Buenos Aires, 1992 - 1994 - 1996 (part 1) - (PDF: 1.46M)
Buenos Aires, 1992 - 1994 - 1996 (part 2) - (PDF: 1.42M)
Buenos Aires, 1992 - 1994 - 1996 (part 3) - (PDF: 1.25M)
Extract from the book linked in my signature 'Unseen by Ron Tesoriero and Lee Han':
No one can call the Hosts-to-Heart cases spiritual. They are 100% physical. But the fact that these transformations have all occurred in a Christian context cannot be avoided. And neither can the fact that they confirm the original and enduring doctrine of the ‘real presence’ of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. *“I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread which I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world” *John 6:51

If these words of Christ are true, these outrageously audacious, almost unthinkable words are true, these words uttered many thousands of times for thousands of years, every single day in every corner of the planet are true, that bread does become real flesh, then it certainly seems the height of folly to not soberly consider everything else this man had to say.
Please continue to next post -
 
Jesus to Catalina:
In Adoration - loveandmercy.org/Eng-IA-Reg.pdf

**17) “It is not the Tabernacles that are closed, but your hearts. For very few succeed in understanding how I, who am hidden and enclosed, have the freedom to reveal Myself, to make My living presence felt, there in the Host which every one of those Tabernacles encloses.
  1. “My Presence can be noticed if you have open minds, hearts and souls. Whoever comes to Me receives the proofs of My Eucharistic Presence, since I cause that marvelous miracle, precisely in order to approach you, welcome you, and console you who suffer from the life that is passing.”**
The Sacred Heart Image (St Margaret-Mary Alacoque) -

http://s7.postimg.org/4jx43bm1n/Christ_7.jpg

This is the revelation which took place in June 1675 when St Margaret Mary was before the Blessed Sacrament (The Holy Eucharist). Our Lord said to her:

**"Behold this Heart, Which has loved men so much, that It has spared nothing, even to exhausting **(Crucifixion) **and consuming Itself, **(Last Supper, Eucharist) **in order to testify to them Its love; and in return I receive from the greater number nothing but ingratitude by reason of their irreverence and sacrileges, and by the coldness and contempt which they show Me in this Sacrament of Love. **(Referring to how people treat His real presense in the Holy Eucharist). But what I feel the most keenly is that it is hearts which are consecrated to Me that treat Me thus. Therefore, I ask of thee that the Friday after the Octave of Corpus Christi be set apart for a special feast to honour My Heart, by communicating on that day and making reparation to It by a solemn act, in order to make amends for the indignities which It has received during the time It has been exposed on the altars. I promise thee that My Heart shall expand Itself to shed in abundance the influence of Its divine love upon those who shall thus honour It, and cause It to be honoured."

What I also find interesting, is this occured in 1675 before any Eucharistic Miracle could be thoroughly scientificly analysed, and in these scientifically verified miracles, we find that it is not just any human tissue, but rather heart muscle tissue, from the left ventricle that gives the heart it’s beat!

Please continue to next post -
 
John 6:47-71:
Rejected by His Own

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Turn Away

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you (John 14:18)
Jesus to Catalina:
The Holy Mass - loveandmercy.org/Eng-HM-Reg.pdf

The Last Supper was the moment of the greatest intimacy with My own. During that hour of love I instituted what in the eyes of mankind might be the greatest madness, to make Myself a prisoner of Love. I instituted the Eucharist. I wanted to remain with you until the end of time because My Love could not bear that you, whom I loved more than My Life, be left orphans…
Jesus to Catalina:
The Passion - loveandmercy.org/Eng-TP-Reg.pdf

**11) For love of souls, I remain a prisoner in the Holy Eucharist, so that in their sorrow and grief they are being consoled by the most tender of Hearts, by the best of Fathers, by the most loyal friend. But that Love, which is consumed for the good of mankind, is not going to be returned.
  1. I live amongst sinners to be their salvation and their life, their doctor and medicine; yet they, in return, in spite of their sick nature, distance themselves from Me. They offend Me and scorn Me.
  2. My children, poor sinners! Do not distance yourselves from Me. I wait for you night and day at the Tabernacle. I will not reproach you for your crimes; I will not throw your sins in your face. What I will do is to wash you with the Blood of My wounds. Do not be afraid; come to Me. You do not know how much I love you.
  3. And you, dear souls, why are you cold and indifferent to My love? I know you have to attend to the needs of your family, your home, and of the world that constantly demands of you. But, can it be that you do not have a moment to come and give Me proof of your love and gratitude? Do not allow yourselves to be carried away by so many useless worries; reserve a moment of your time to visit the Prisoner of Love. If your body is sick, can you not find a few minutes to seek the Doctor who must cure you? Come to He who can restore strength and health of the soul. Give alms of love to this Divine Beggar, who calls you, wants you, and waits for you. **
God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
Hi all, haven’t been here in a while, and I was looking around for posts on the ‘real presence’, and wondering if anyone else has ever had the experience I’ve had in receiving Our Lord in Communion. Yesterday I received both the precious body and the precious blood which I don’t always do (both species). Upon returning to the pew and praying and thanking Jesus for this wonderful awesome gift He has given us, and after praying the Amina Christi (I always pray this prayer after Communion) I always make sure all traces of wine are gone from my lips etc. It was unmistakable and really took me back when upon licking my lips, I unmistakably tasted blood. Having tasted blood many times in my life to date from different mouth procedures etc, it’s hard not to recognize the taste. I was so taken back, it was hard to regain my composure!! That’s never really happened to me before, but when I was very young, I remember a few times the host felt almost as if it was vibrating on my tongue, and of course wondered about it, but never really said anything to anyone. Wondering, has anyone else had any similar experiences? Is this maybe more common than I’m aware? Keep in mind though, that this doesn’t always happen, in fact, don’t think it EVER has with the precious blood. I always lick my lips when receiving the precious blood as I do (unlike some) really believe in the real presence, and don’t want any traces to be ‘hanging around’ on my lips, if you know what I mean:) I am STILL in shock about this…thoughts?
 
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