Trapped in TN - Needing Advice

[MikeLurie]

Hello friends.
I’m new to the forum here, and was looking for some help/advice, particularly from traditional Catholics who live in a part of the country where the LRM/EM is not readily available.

To give you a little background, I was born and raised Catholic in a a Novus Ordo household (New York). My grandparents were 1st generation from Italy and were very traditional, but apparently that was lost on my parents. Growing up, it was more “cafeteria Catholic” than anything else. I have an older brother who has since married and started his own family. My brother is now attending Mass at an SSPX church.

I have since married and started a family as well, but my travels have taken me to Tennessee. Most everyone here is evangelical Christian/non-denom/Baptist. My town has 1 Catholic church (Novus Ordo) and there is only 1 LRM in a 50 mile radius, but it is an SSPX church and I won’t attend Mass there.

My family is planning to relocate back to the North. We make charitable donations to the FSSP and proximity to an FSSP church will be a primary criteria for where we decide to settle. But any move is at least 12-18 months on the horizon and that’s a long time to remain in a parish that I am not comfortable with.

I have tried to make some roots in the local NO parish, and have gone as far as joining the KofC Council and really trying to get involved in various ministries. To clarify, I have absolutely no issue with the post VII Church. I do enjoy the EM and I do adhere to more traditional practices in my daily life (No meat on Friday, pray the LOH daily, receive the Eucharist from a clergy in the mouth/not hand), but those are all choices that can be made while still remaining a Novus Ordo Catholic. I would be perfectly happy attending Mass at this parish if the body were more reverent and respectful. Unfortunately that is not the case. And the irreverence has reached a level that I can officially say is interfering with my ability to worship.

My attempts to get involved with various ministries has done nothing for my spiritual development. The only thing it has done is open my eyes to some very disturbing people who are impersonating faithful practicing Catholics. Many of the people in my parish would not meet the minimal requirements to be considered in union with the Church. Many of these people are actually leaders in the parish, some of them are Eucharistic Ministers. The Knights of Columbus has proven to be a complete joke. What I thought was going to be a fraternal order of Catholic brothers devoting their time to the faith has turned out to be a poker club run by a good ol’ boys network of 10-15 people. The same 10-15 people that seem to make all the parish decisions.

Many of the men I have met in the Knights habitually drink and drive, the women in the Heart of Mary Guild have been downright rude to my wife and to top it all off, we have a contingent of liberal/Democrat Catholics in the parish that are pro-choice.

The last thing I want to do is to be judgmental. I don’t mean to be. But how do you not notice these things? God gave me two eyes to see and two ears to hear, am I not supposed to be mindful of the people around me? I can forgive these things, I can continue to love my Catholic brothers and sisters despite these things, but I don’t feel that I should have to continue worshiping in this parish if I am consistently distracted from the Word.

I have talked to people/clergy about these feelings, and the typical response seems to be that I should focus on improving these issues at my current parish. Don’t give up on this parish, and remember that God put me in this place for a reason. In fact, I consistently here this message about not straying from the place you are… despite never gleaning that theme from any part of scripture personally. Is it true that were are bound to the parish body of the town we are currently living? And if so, can anyone provide scripture on this topic? Because I have never known this.

Ultimately, I just don’t know what to do. There is an Indult Mass at one of the Nashville Cathedrals (about 60-90 minutes away) on the third Sunday of every month. My wife and I are planning to give this a try next weekend. But that still leaves the question of going outside my home parish. And it doesn’t solve anything for the other holy days of obligation throughout the month.

Any advice/opinions would certainly be appreciated

 

[momor]

I’m not sure what you are saying. There is nothing wrong with going to another parish in another town and making that your home parish.

If what you are saying is that you have no other option and are looking for permission to stay home on Sunday so it won’t upset your worship I doubt you will find it here.

I would go to Church and do my best to focus on God in the Liturgy and shut out whatever bothers you. Offer up your frustration along with the sacrifice of the Mass and let Him know there is nothing that any human can do to keep you away from the Eucharist. You don’t need to get involved in the ministries especially if you are planning to move away soon anyway. Do some other ministry on your own instead.

 

[MikeLurie]

If what you are saying is that you have no other option and are looking for permission to stay home on Sunday so it won’t upset your worship I doubt you will find it here.

wow…

Anybody else want to give it a shot…

 

[Chatter163]

Could you state your problem more succinctly, in a few sentences, instead of something so lengthy? And what is the LRM/EM?

 

[Onegin]

I’m sorry to hear that your parish is so difficult. Two of my friends from college struggled with this issue when they got married and moved to an area with only one liberal parish, and these are some of the things they did after unsuccessful attempts to participate at the local parish:

1. Stopped trying to “fit in” to the liberal parish where doing so results in either getting angry or compromising your own beliefs. Or where doing so would put the children in a situation where they would be taught liberal theology.
2. Where finances were an issue for them, they chose to commit to a once-a-month trip to the TLM Mass 2 hours away. That way they had something to look forward to every month without feeling like they were “trapped” at the current parish.
3. They continued going to Mass at the current Parish to fulfill the Sunday Obligation, but, at home, supplemented that with the rosary, reading the Missal and other traditional devotions so as not to become discouraged.
4. Started looking for other traditionally minded Catholics in the area to form either a group catechism program for the kids, a carpool for driving out to the TLM or just a support group for adults and parents who were in a similar situation.

I hope things get better for you! Also, if you can get a group of traditionally-minded Catholics together in your area, perhaps you can petition your diocese for a priest to say the TLM in your area. Unfortunately, there’s a shortage of priests and dioceses are often stubborn but I’ll say a prayer for you and hope that things start looking up. Don’t get discouraged!

 

[corsair]

Many Trad’s feel trapped in a liturgy that they do not like, BUT we have been there for almost 40 years. No I don’t try to fit in. I just attend Mass and pray. Our local FSSP expansion, to a closer church, has hit a “snag”. Seems its about some problem with a Building Use agreement. Seems kind of flakey to me but guess the Lawyers have got to have some justification for their existance.

We have been faithful to the church for decades but its been rather tough. We are so close to having a weekly TLM that I can taste it. According to the FSSP its just been postponed.

So a little more waiting is necessary. Boy, talk about being tested. The next closest FSSP parish is 120 miles away (not round trip, each way). I go there about once a month but it becomes an all day affair. My wife and I are not 'spring chickens" so travel is becoming tougher. as we age.

When the Expansion parish actually occurs we’ll only have 75 miles each way.

My advise is to bit the bullet and expand home devotions to make up for it. No priest is going to OK staying at home.

 

[the_phoenix]

Hello MikeLurie,

Onegin provides some excellent suggestions for you.

Of course the most important thing is to fulfill your Sunday obligation.

As for the fitting in at the parish part, I don’t, and I’ve tried the advice of joining groups, helping out at the parish, being the one to approach others first in a friendly manner, and so on and so forth etc … In fact, I am and have been involved in my current home parish as an Adorer in the Perpetual Eucharistic Chapel for several years now. That chapel and a reverent English-language Mass keep me as a parishioner.

I am blessed in that I can travel about a half hour downtown to the Latin Mass, so I have as it were a secondary parish. Went there these last two Sundays, and thank God for the opportunity.

As for the lack of Catholic fellowship, once it was established that Donut Sundays and other forms of socializing just don’t seem open to welcoming interested newcomers (for some reason Protestants seem to give me a much warmer welcome and friendlier treatment even when they know I’m a firm Catholic), I ended up venturing forth into the great outdoors after Mass, camera in hand, and have now become of all things, an artist! As in, actual art galleries! As a fine art photographer, and it may even be that this is my vocation for goodness sake, odd as it may seem for one who intended being just a mild-mannered technical writer.

As for praying, together with the Adoration Chapel, there’s always the Rosary (which I could stand to be more faithful to), and in fact being active in the Prayer Intentions forum here at CAF keeps me busy saying Hail Marys and tracking down bits and pieces of the day’s Liturgy of the Hours that seem to fit somebody’s particular prayer intention on a given day.

You have your own talents and charism … What is the Good Lord calling you to do?

As for attending another parish, while the distance sounds like it could end up being a bit of a penance for you, it’s well worth looking into.

God bless you as you strive to follow Him.



PAX ET BONUM

 

[pro_multis]

Maybe you can evangalize some of these people at your new church.

 

[MikeLurie]

I’m sorry to hear that your parish is so difficult. Two of my friends from college struggled with this issue when they got married and moved to an area with only one liberal parish, and these are some of the things they did after unsuccessful attempts to participate at the local parish:

1. Stopped trying to “fit in” to the liberal parish where doing so results in either getting angry or compromising your own beliefs. Or where doing so would put the children in a situation where they would be taught liberal theology.
2. Where finances were an issue for them, they chose to commit to a once-a-month trip to the TLM Mass 2 hours away. That way they had something to look forward to every month without feeling like they were “trapped” at the current parish.
3. They continued going to Mass at the current Parish to fulfill the Sunday Obligation, but, at home, supplemented that with the rosary, reading the Missal and other traditional devotions so as not to become discouraged.
4. Started looking for other traditionally minded Catholics in the area to form either a group catechism program for the kids, a carpool for driving out to the TLM or just a support group for adults and parents who were in a similar situation.

I hope things get better for you! Also, if you can get a group of traditionally-minded Catholics together in your area, perhaps you can petition your diocese for a priest to say the TLM in your area. Unfortunately, there’s a shortage of priests and dioceses are often stubborn but I’ll say a prayer for you and hope that things start looking up. Don’t get discouraged!

Thanks so much for the advice. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Mostly, I was curious about this belief that you somehow have a spiritual obligation to attend Mass at the parish servicing your zip code… I have never heard of this before and wasn’t sure if somebody here had some scripture to support this belief.
From the responses I am getting, it doesn’t seem to be based in scripture.

As for not attending Mass at all, I’m not really certain what I said in my initial post to give anyone the impression I would ever miss a holy day of obligation. I would go to a clown mass if it was the only option. I guess I should have been more “succinct” in my original question…

 

[Onegin]

Thanks so much for the advice. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Mostly, I was curious about this belief that you somehow have a spiritual obligation to attend Mass at the parish servicing your zip code… I have never heard of this before and wasn’t sure if somebody here had some scripture to support this belief.
From the responses I am getting, it doesn’t seem to be based in scripture.

In the past I would imagine that most people went to their local parish because, at most parishes, you would be exposed to the same traditional faith so there wasn’t the need to drive and fewer people had the means to do so anyway.

Today we have a bad situation with the lack of available Masses in some areas. At the same time, we are also blessed to have more resources than people did in the past (faster cars, highways, the internet) so we can use those to our advantage. I’ve met some families that drive amazing distances to get to the TLM and while that isn’t a financial reality for a lot of us, their devotion to attending the Traditional Mass is inspiring.

Chances are if there aren’t many options in your area, there are at least a few families struggling in your same situation. Seek them out! The worst option is resigning yourself to trying to go it alone, it can get terribly discouraging and challenging.

 

[Ichbinian]

Where in TN are you located…there are several Latin masses in the state.

 

[Filioque]

Holy Resurrection Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Mission has the Byzantine Rite at Holy Ghost Church, 1041 N. Central St. in Knoxville. Divine Liturgy will be celebrated at 3:30 p.m. Sundays and at other times by announcement. Holy Resurrection, formerly at Holy Family Church in Seymour, is part of the Ruthenian Byzantine Archeparchy of Pittsburgh under Archbishop Basil M. Schott, OFM.

Ukranian Catholic Mission in Knoxville. saintthomasknoxville.org/

 

[MikeLurie]

Where in TN are you located…there are several Latin masses in the state.

Icbbinian, I’m in Murfreesboro, about 40 miles SE of Nashville.
The only Latin Mass I can find in my area is in Franklin (40 miles to my west) and that is an SSPX Church. I won’t attend an SSPX Mass.

The Assumption (Nashville) offers the Latin Mass on the 3rd Sunday of every month, which we plan on attending. But that is all I know of.

If you know of others (non SSPX) I would love to get the info from you. I would be extremely grateful. And if you know something about an FSSP parish in this area I would be grateful beyond words.

 

[Chatter163]

LRM and EM refer to Latin Masses?

 

[mary_bobo]

I’m sorry you live in the wrong part of the state. Holy Ghost Parish in Knoxville has a TLM every Sunday at 1:30 p.m. Our former bishop, no Archbishop of Louisville, sent Father Orr to learn the latin mass and it is he who offers it each week. I wonder if a note to the diocesan office in Nashville might let you know if there is an interest in any part of that diocese for a latin mass.

 

[thomas_jd]

Hello friends.
I’m new to the forum here, and was looking for some help/advice, particularly from traditional Catholics who live in a part of the country where the LRM/EM is not readily available.

To give you a little background, I was born and raised Catholic in a a Novus Ordo household (New York). My grandparents were 1st generation from Italy and were very traditional, but apparently that was lost on my parents. Growing up, it was more “cafeteria Catholic” than anything else. I have an older brother who has since married and started his own family. My brother is now attending Mass at an SSPX church.

I have since married and started a family as well, but my travels have taken me to Tennessee. Most everyone here is evangelical Christian/non-denom/Baptist. My town has 1 Catholic church (Novus Ordo) and there is only 1 LRM in a 50 mile radius, but it is an SSPX church and I won’t attend Mass there.

Try to FOCUS on the mass and not on the abuses seen at most parishes.
Spiritual growth can come from a contemptlative method for now. Read the Divine Office, say a family rosary or alone if necessary. Sit closer to the altar if you are distracted.You can’t see the people as well if they are behind you. Every morning as you say your morning offering ask God to give you the Theoligical gift of charity.
My family is planning to relocate back to the North. We make charitable donations to the FSSP and proximity to an FSSP church will be a primary criteria for where we decide to settle. But any move is at least 12-18 months on the horizon and that’s a long time to remain in a parish that I am not comfortable with.

I have tried to make some roots in the local NO parish, and have gone as far as joining the KofC Council and really trying to get involved in various ministries. To clarify, I have absolutely no issue with the post VII Church. I do enjoy the EM and I do adhere to more traditional practices in my daily life (No meat on Friday, pray the LOH daily, receive the Eucharist from a clergy in the mouth/not hand), but those are all choices that can be made while still remaining a Novus Ordo Catholic. I would be perfectly happy attending Mass at this parish if the body were more reverent and respectful. Unfortunately that is not the case. And the irreverence has reached a level that I can officially say is interfering with my ability to worship.

My attempts to get involved with various ministries has done nothing for my spiritual development. The only thing it has done is open my eyes to some very disturbing people who are impersonating faithful practicing Catholics. Many of the people in my parish would not meet the minimal requirements to be considered in union with the Church. Many of these people are actually leaders in the parish, some of them are Eucharistic Ministers. The Knights of Columbus has proven to be a complete joke. What I thought was going to be a fraternal order of Catholic brothers devoting their time to the faith has turned out to be a poker club run by a good ol’ boys network of 10-15 people. The same 10-15 people that seem to make all the parish decisions.

Many of the men I have met in the Knights habitually drink and drive, the women in the Heart of Mary Guild have been downright rude to my wife and to top it all off, we have a contingent of liberal/Democrat Catholics in the parish that are pro-choice.

The last thing I want to do is to be judgmental. I don’t mean to be. But how do you not notice these things? God gave me two eyes to see and two ears to hear, am I not supposed to be mindful of the people around me? I can forgive these things, I can continue to love my Catholic brothers and sisters despite these things, but I don’t feel that I should have to continue worshiping in this parish if I am consistently distracted from the Word.

I have talked to people/clergy about these feelings, and the typical response seems to be that I should focus on improving these issues at my current parish. Don’t give up on this parish, and remember that God put me in this place for a reason. In fact, I consistently here this message about not straying from the place you are… despite never gleaning that theme from any part of scripture personally. Is it true that were are bound to the parish body of the town we are currently living? And if so, can anyone provide scripture on this topic? Because I have never known this.

Ultimately, I just don’t know what to do. There is an Indult Mass at one of the Nashville Cathedrals (about 60-90 minutes away) on the third Sunday of every month. My wife and I are planning to give this a try next weekend. But that still leaves the question of going outside my home parish. And it doesn’t solve anything for the other holy days of obligation throughout the month.

Any advice/opinions would certainly be appreciated

to FOCUS on the mass and not on the abuses seen at most parishes.
Spiritual growth can come from a contemptlative method for now. Read the Divine Office, say a family rosary or alone if necessary. Sit closer to the altar if you are distracted.You can’t see the people as well if they are behind you. Every morning as you say your morning offering ask God to give you the Theoligical gift of charity.
But first I would talk to a priest. God Bless

 

[MikeDunphy]

byzcath.org/Nashville/

St. Nicholas Ukrainian Greek Catholic Mission currently has a monthly Saturday evening Divine Liturgy in Nashville. The Divine Liturgy is the eastern Catholic version of the Mass. Unfortunately, this month’s DL was this past weekend.

The mission is being hosted by
St. Patrick Catholic Church
1219 Second Avenue South
Nashville, TN 37210

St. Catherine of Siena in Columbia has a Sunday Traditional Latin Mass on the 2nd Sunday of the month at 6 am and the 4th Sunday of the month at 4 pm. You already know about the Church of the Assumption.

Both the traditional Latin Mass and the Divine Liturgy take a little getting used to if you have always gone to Novus Ordo Masses.

The parishes that host the Masses listed above might be good ones to try on other Sundays, too, but if they are too far to visit on a weekly basis, then you could look for closer parishes on masstimes.org.

 

[ProVobis]

Ultimately, I just don’t know what to do. There is an Indult Mass at one of the Nashville Cathedrals (about 60-90 minutes away) on the third Sunday of every month. My wife and I are planning to give this a try next weekend. But that still leaves the question of going outside my home parish. And it doesn’t solve anything for the other holy days of obligation throughout the month.

Any advice/opinions would certainly be appreciated

You pretty much solved your own problem. There shouldn’t be problem attending any Catholic rite Mass to fulfill your obligation for a given Sunday. However, you’re going past the Mass and consider parish life just as important to you. As you are already considering moving far away, any real progress toward a meaningful parish life at your closest parish will be short-term at best. But you are working on a longer term parish life and your attempts to check out all the Masses is a good step toward ultimately settling down in a parish you will be comfortable in. I would say keep up the good work.

 

[NeelyAnn]

The Nashville Diocese is not in very good shape right now. The only diocesan Latin Mass is at Assumption Parish on the 3rd Sunday of the month. The priest is flown in from out of state to do this Mass. I don’t think there are any plans to have a local priest take over at this time, but I could be wrong. Last I heard, some priests expressed interest but then something happened and it hasn’t been mentioned since. The only other Mass available is the SSPX. I am not sure what side of Nashville you live but if it is on the North side, there is a Latin Mass in Horse Cave, KY every Sunday. Some people from Nashville do go there occassionally. Oh, I almost forgot, there was Columbia. I am not sure if they are still having the Mass there, or not. You may try calling. I believe the parish was St. Catherine’s.

I am not sure how far you are from the Knoxville Diocese, but they have a few Latin Masses in Cleveland, Clinton, and Farragut. The Memphis Diocese also has a few Latin Masses in Memphis and Bartlett. The SSPX also has a Chapel in Memphis.

It sometimes helps to get to know a few elderly/semi-retired/retired priests. Some of them will say do say the Latin Mass privately and it is OK to attend teh priest’s private Mass. If you get to know a few of the ‘better’ elderly priests, even if they aren’t already saying the Latin Mass privately you might be able to convince them to do so. You may even be able to get them to be willing to do Mass at one of the local Churches afterwards, providing you can find a pastor willing to let it happen. The Bishop’s sentiments on this will play a big part too. Not to many want to go up against the Bishop if they think he is not in favor of it.

 

[Jimzz12]

Thanks so much for the advice. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Mostly, I was curious about this belief that you somehow have a spiritual obligation to attend Mass at the parish servicing your zip code… I have never heard of this before and wasn’t sure if somebody here had some scripture to support this belief.
From the responses I am getting, it doesn’t seem to be based in scripture.

As for not attending Mass at all, I’m not really certain what I said in my initial post to give anyone the impression I would ever miss a holy day of obligation. I would go to a clown mass if it was the only option. I guess I should have been more “succinct” in my original question…

There is a duty to go to mass regularly at your canonical parish. The first choice is your local parish, second a cathedral seat, and third a qualifying ethnic parish. I am sure this was much easier in the New York were ethnic Italian parishes abound.

I usually go to the Italian parish, seconded by the cathedral; as I like to hear the monsignors and bishops homilize. I do go to my local parish from time to time, especially when accompanied by the folks I grew up with.

When I traveled to the West Coast a year or so back, I made it a point to be super-catholic man, and just tell people this is how it’s always been done where I come from. Many of them were very intrigued. Here I am thinking of, passing around and reading encyclicals and audiences from the Pope, reading good books from reputable publishers such as Ignatius, Sceptre, and TAN, etc., and also especially of spreading devotions to sacramentals: scapulars and rosaries, and most especially to the Liturgy of the Hours. There is also a number of very good Catholic parishes now taking root in your neck of the woods. They may be of some assistance in bending the iron slowly back to orthodoxy on the hard issues.

It is utterly astounding how much more is taught through faithful attendence to all three liturgies. You might want to get together with one of the local priests and set up a regular mens Liturgy of the Hours practice, in the early morning and the evenings. Perhaps if the Knights have an issue with drink, you may want to consider joining the Knights yourself (if you haven’t already done so) and admonish them from the inside. Maybe it’s high time the beer is made less available. As my grandmother said,“Its not the drinkin’ it’s the stinkin’ thinkin’” that causes problems with alcohol.

While your in the south you may want to take a peak at the Basilica in Asheville, NC. It was built by an Italian, who incidently is also buried in the building. Asheville has the same approximate climate as Perugia. Some years there are cold blasts but on the whole olives and figs, blood oranges and lemons could be moderately grown there.

BTW. good on you for supporting FSSP they are a good group of fellas.

EDIT: Also the reading and discussion of good secular authors such as GK Chesterton, Hilaire Belloc, Etienne Gilson, Christopher Dawson.