Trappist's Church

[Luigi_Daniele]

You know, I only learned this recently, but it makes me feel better about my confirmation. I was actually confirmed by an abbot (bishop was busy, and we were a far-flung country parish). It was probably the second time I’d EVER seen a male religious in life and I thought he looked very comical at the time.

Confirmed by an Abbot? That is really cool!

 

[Rich_C]

Confirmed by an Abbot? That is really cool!

I always felt like I got gipped, but now that I know better I’ll try to look at that way, haha.

Stay

 

[jwinch2]

You know, I only learned this recently, but it makes me feel better about my confirmation. I was actually confirmed by an abbot (bishop was busy, and we were a far-flung country parish).

Interesting. I wonder how often that happens. I was confirmed by our parish priests for the same reasons, but you are the first case I have heard of where the Abbot went out to a parish to do confirmations.

Cool story.

 

[JReducation]

Neat.

Maybe someday I’ll get to experience some of these things. I missed the last “pre-Vatican II” (I have no idea what to call this missal) Dominican Mass in our area.

Don’t forget Dominican.

The Dominicans fall under the Augustinian umbrella, because they vow to follow the Rule of St. Augustine. They don’t really have a “Dominican Spirituality”. What makes them different is their ministry and the Dominican Rite. Their government is that of the Augustinians.

 

[JReducation]

You know, I only learned this recently, but it makes me feel better about my confirmation. I was actually confirmed by an abbot (bishop was busy, and we were a far-flung country parish). It was probably the second time I’d EVER seen a male religious in life and I thought he looked very comical at the time.

Interesting. I wonder how often that happens. I was confirmed by our parish priests for the same reasons, but you are the first case I have heard of where the Abbot went out to a parish to do confirmations.

Cool story.

The bishop can delegate any auxiliary bishop, vicar general, abbot or any other priest to confirm. It’s usually done in hierarchical order.

Bishop
Auxiliary Bishop
Vicar General
Chancellor
Abbot (if he’s a priest)
Pastor
Parish Priest

In the absence of one, you go to the next level. Not all abbots are priests. Then you would skip him. Not every diocese has an abbey. The monastic vocation is for a very select few who are very close to God. Most of us are not that close to God to deserve to be called to such an exalted way of life or we’re not strong enough to live such a penitential life. Because God only calls the very special to the monastic life, there are very few abbeys.

 

[OraLabora]

Interesting. I wonder how often that happens. I was confirmed by our parish priests for the same reasons, but you are the first case I have heard of where the Abbot went out to a parish to do confirmations.

Cool story.

There is still a small number of “territorial” abbeys around, where the abbot is an “abbot nullius diœceseos” (abbot not belonging to a diocese). The abbot is the ordinary for a territory that is not part of a defined diocese and thus is de facto the bishop.

Interestingly, Monte Cassino abbey, the one founded by St. Benedict himself, is still a territorial abbey, as is Subiaco where he first lived as a hermit.

In Canada there used to be only one, St. Peter’s Abbey in Muenster, Saskatchewan, but it lost that status 1998 when its territory became part of diocese of Saskatoon. I think in the US, only Belmont Abbey was a territorial abbey at one time.

 

[jwinch2]

There is still a small number of “territorial” abbeys around, where the abbot is an “abbot nullius diœceseos” (abbot not belonging to a diocese). The abbot is the ordinary for a territory that is not part of a defined diocese and thus is de facto the bishop.

Interestingly, Monte Cassino abbey, the one founded by St. Benedict himself, is still a territorial abbey, as is Subiaco where he first lived as a hermit.

In Canada there used to be only one, St. Peter’s Abbey in Muenster, Saskatchewan, but it lost that status 1998 when its territory became part of diocese of Saskatoon. I think in the US, only Belmont Abbey was a territorial abbey at one time.

Interesting history. Thanks!

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

There is still a small number of “territorial” abbeys around, where the abbot is an “abbot nullius diœceseos” (abbot not belonging to a diocese). The abbot is the ordinary for a territory that is not part of a defined diocese and thus is de facto the bishop.

Interestingly, Monte Cassino abbey, the one founded by St. Benedict himself, is still a territorial abbey, as is Subiaco where he first lived as a hermit.

In Canada there used to be only one, St. Peter’s Abbey in Muenster, Saskatchewan, but it lost that status 1998 when its territory became part of diocese of Saskatoon. I think in the US, only Belmont Abbey was a territorial abbey at one time.

Very interesting! Thank you.

 

[McCall1981]

The superiors of the orders of men have jurisdiction over their men and over any layperson attached to their houses and parishes. They need not be bishops. To be an order you must belong to one of the following families either be male or cloistered nun:

Augustinian
Benedictine
Franciscan
Carmelite
Jesuit
Basilian

So, would it be correct to say that each of these six families has their own individual charism (which defines each family)?

And that the divisions within a particular family are like sub-divisions, based on rites rather than based on charisms?

Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[OraLabora]

So, would it be correct to say that each of these six families has their own individual charism (which defines each family)?

And that the divisions within a particular family are like sub-divisions, based on rites rather than based on charisms?

Am I understanding this correctly?

For Benedictines, indeed they have a specific charism. Benedictine abbeys are autonomous, so each has its particular culture. However Benedictines are divided into congregations. While each congregation has its own flavour, there remains a high degree of individuality between abbeys. Oblates, which are sort of equivalent to a “third order”, aren’t really because our attachment is not to the order, but to our individual abbey. Benedictines are a contemplative order.

Other orders also have their own charisms.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

For Benedictines, indeed they have a specific charism. Benedictine abbeys are autonomous, so each has its particular culture. However Benedictines are divided into congregations. While each congregation has its own flavour, there remains a high degree of individuality between abbeys. Oblates, which are sort of equivalent to a “third order”, aren’t really because our attachment is not to the order, but to our individual abbey. Benedictines are a contemplative order.

Other orders also have their own charisms.

And of course:

COMMUNITY

Act in the best interest of others and be considerate.

PRAYER

Take time for reflection and to seek guidance.

HOSPITALITY

Welcome visitors and treat your neighbor as your guest.

STABILITY

Embrace the traditions and heritage of community.

DISCIPLINE

Practice restraint and act with maturity.

STEWARDSHIP

Take care of what is given to you.

HUMILITY

Listen to others, grant forgiveness and admit your mistakes.

CONVERSATION

Seek opportunities to learn and grow.

LOVE OF CHRIST AND NEIGHBOR

Embrace others with an open heart.

OBEDIENCE

 

[JReducation]

So, would it be correct to say that each of these six families has their own individual charism (which defines each family)?

And that the divisions within a particular family are like sub-divisions, based on rites rather than based on charisms?

Am I understanding this correctly?

Within the orders, each branch of the order has a defining apostolate as well as national and local cultures that define it. For example, Franciscans are 1.7 million. We are approximately 116 branches of men and women. We follow the same rule of life. You will find no difference in government, daily prayer life, or spirituality. You will find differences in apostolic work and culture. Each branch borrows from the local culture.

For example, the Franciscans of the Renewal have their roots in NYC. Their culture is very much that of NY no matter where they go. They eat that food, speak that language, use that music in worship and prayer, and even their habits are designed for that environment. Whether they’re in NYC or China, you can tell them apart from other Franciscans.

Franciscans of Life (my community) were founded in Florida. Our habit, our language, food, music, our apostolate is defined by the local culture.

However, both the Franciscans of the Renewal and Franciscans of Life follow the same rule of life, observe the same disciplines, embrace the same spirituality, obey the same founder, have the same vision of the Church and ultimate mission, which is to obey without ever questioning.

This is the case with the other families.