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Peter_J
Guest
(Kidding. 
)
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Peter_J
Guest
That is, at least, the way a lot of Confessional Lutherans see the situation. Whether they’re right … well that’s another matter.
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Peter_J
Guest
Fair enough.
If you’ll pardon my asking, would you agree that we could find just the reverse of that if we went to a Lutheran forum?
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Trevor_Dewey
Guest
Because God, through the Holy Spirit conceived in the Blessed Virgin Mary and incarnated as a man, and in doing so accepted the limitations of men.I’ve always wondered why, if the truth resides in the Catholic Church, God left the Native Americans in the New World in paganism without access to the Catholic Church for 1500 years?
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FollowChrist34
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Does this make it ok? “They are just as nasty as we are.” No doubt many are. Do you see that as a justification for it here? I thought we were the ones who have the advantage of truth and grace - so why do we so often mirror the actions of those who are wrong?
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Duane1966
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Evidence for who?
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KjetilK
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Well, mostly that the voice of the narrator made me sleepy. But also that there wasn’t a single source cited in the description of the video.
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KjetilK
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No Pope says that those who lack apostolic succession don’t have churches.
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MaryT777
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I have never read any such statistic myself. In my own everyday life as a cradle CatholicI agree on that - they do seem to think about him on CAF though. Which has a good and a bad side. I am actually enjoying this thread.
Between you and me, I find it more than a little ironic though that I have more in common with Luther than I do with many Catholics in the pews, what is it 60% or something who don’t concur with teaching that Luther did??..
Luther rarely if ever comes up.
Those that do bring him up to me are usually converts to the Catholic Church from the Lutheran Church or those that leave the Catholic Church to be Lutheran. I’ve known a few both ways.
Yes, here on CAF Luther can be a “hot topic.” I think the issue is that many Lutherans see him as a great reformer while Catholics often don’t share that sentiment and see him as an instrument of great division which continues today. Somewhat extreme views which can cause some heated disagreements.
Mary.
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FollowChrist34
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Hi Mary,
Yes I agree. I am a revert Catholic. I was born Catholic but was an atheist most of my life. As I have mentioned previously, I read Luther when I was considering Christianity - I didn’t know whether it would be Protestantism or Catholicism at the time. He had a very strong impact on me - in a good way. He is a big part of why I became a Christian (but not all). That is why I defend him - he, among others, gave me a cup to drink: that is how faith developed for me. I can do no other.
That is where I am coming from personallly.I agree that strong theological views on either side can sadly do more harm than good. It is funny. If you compare what the Council of Trent (which I read last night and actually found a little depressing) was about to what the Family Synod taking place next week is about, it is ridiculous. Child’s play back then. Or put another way, maybe they had a great advantage: if the doctrine of justification was the hot topic of the day - the central issue of how a Christian saw his faith play out in his life - as opposed to divorce or same-sex relationships - I bow to my ancestors - on both sides of the debate.
:tiphat:
Cheers.
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MaryT777
Guest
I began my main interest in learning more about Luther when I met a LCMS Pastor at a nursing home!~ I was managing an apt. complex and I was visiting my resident who was there briefly and the Lutheran service at the Nursing Home was at that very time. So she asked me to wheel her in there and I stayed for the 30 minute service and was mesmerized.Hi Mary,
Yes I agree. I am a revert Catholic. I was born Catholic but was an atheist most of my life. As I have mentioned previously, I read Luther when I was considering Christianity - I didn’t know whether it would be Protestantism or Catholicism at the time. He had a very strong impact on me - in a good way. He is a big part of why I became a Christian (but not all). That is why I defend him - he, among others, gave me a cup to drink: that is how faith developed for me. I can do no other.
I agree that strong theological views on either side can sadly do more harm than good. It is funny. If you compare what the Council of Trent (which I read last night and actually found a little depressing) was about to what the Family Synod taking place next week is about, it is ridiculous. Child’s play back then. Or put another way, maybe they had a great advantage: if the doctrine of justification was the hot topic of the day - the central issue of how a Christian saw his faith play out in his life - as opposed to divorce or same-sex relationships - I bow to my ancestors - on both sides of the debate.
:tiphat:
Cheers.
I felt a little like I was in “opposite land” theology wise. LOL if that makes any sense. Like Mary in Lutheran Land! We became friend and it led to me visiting to hear him preach and also was intrigued with the law/gospel approach. He was then doing a TWO YEAR, yes two year Bible study every Sunday to study the Bible from start to finish with Today’s Light Bible. He had a Master’s in exegesis so it was fabulous!~
I had tried to read the bible from start to finish alone and couldn’t do it alone; numbers got to me,
and going through the OT was tricky. This was fabulous and taped so weeks I did not attend I did get the tape. I learned a lot.Eventually I became somewhat well known in the Bible study that grew to 100 people weekly for two years as “Mary the Catholic visitor”
He had MS and retired due to disability but now I believe is an adjunct professor in a sem in Wisconsin.
We had some good natured “hellish” fights when I read about some of what Luther said about Papists in the Concord book and the Primacy of Peter but he always said just put on a Lutheran hat and listen. He had a great sense of humor and was a second career pastor, a CPA in his first which made him somewhat different.
So when he left,
he said,
We are as different as Catholic and Lutheran
but as similar at two believing Christians.
Towards a better understanding he always said…
PS for any Catholic reading this I did attend Mass weekly and do all the right Catholic things and never Communed in the LCMS Church. (Disclaimer)
I used to tell him he was more Lutheran that Luther
Mary.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
This is great stuff - I hope we aren’t deteriorating into sentimentality here. But I think these kinds of experiences are what God cares about…and loves.I began my main interest in learning more about Luther when I met a LCMS Pastor at a nursing home!~ I was managing an apt. complex and I was visiting my resident who was there briefly and the Lutheran service at the Nursing Home was at that very time. So she asked me to wheel her in there and I stayed for the 30 minute service and was mesmerized.
I felt a little like I was in “opposite land” theology wise. LOL if that makes any sense. Like Mary in Lutheran Land! We became friend and it led to me visiting to hear him preach and also was intrigued with the law/gospel approach. He was then doing a TWO YEAR, yes two year Bible study every Sunday to study the Bible from start to finish with Today’s Light Bible. He had a Master’s in exegesis so it was fabulous!~
I had tried to read the bible from start to finish alone and couldn’t do it alone; numbers got to me,
Eventually I became somewhat well known in the Bible study that grew to 100 people weekly for two years as “Mary the Catholic visitor”
He had MS and retired due to disability but now I believe is an adjunct professor in a sem in Wisconsin.
We had some good natured “hellish” fights when I read about some of what Luther said about Papists in the Concord book and the Primacy of Peter but he always said just put on a Lutheran hat and listen. He had a great sense of humor and was a second career pastor, a CPA in his first which made him somewhat different.
So when he left,
he said,
We are as different as Catholic and Lutheran
but as similar at two believing Christians.
Towards a better understanding he always said…
Miss him.
PS for any Catholic reading this I did attend Mass weekly and do all the right Catholic things and never Communed in the LCMS Church. (Disclaimer)
I used to tell him he was more Lutheran that Luther
Mary.
(note this is not moral doctrine or creed quibbling right? it is theological quibbling - different thing altogether)
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MaryT777
Guest
Right. Just had to share back where I was coming from.This is great stuff - I hope we aren’t deteriorating into sentimentality here. But I think these kinds of experiences are what God cares about…and loves.
Now back to the topic at hand.
:slapfight:
Mary.
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