Travel During Holy Days

[Booter]

I ask this question b/c a year ago I asked a priest and he told me it was ok to miss Jan 1 last year b/c I was traveling to LA and Jan 1 is not celebrated as a HDOO. Long Story short, I was going with a travel group to the Rose Parade then to the Rose Bowl so I couldn’t go. If it was a HDOO I woulda went the day before, but the priest said it was ok to miss. What is the official rules regarding traveling to a diocese either within or outside your own country, which doesn’t observe the same days as HDOO? Are we still required to attend?

 

[kage_ar]

If it is a Holy Day of Obligation for you at home, it is a HDO wherever you are on the planet.

Football is not what I can stretch my mind around as a vaild reason to miss mass.

 

[Booter]

I didn’t miss Mass b/c of the Game per se. I didn’t go because it wasn’t a Holy Day of Obligation in LA for whatever reason. Like I said I asked a priest, albeit, one I didn’t know 2well, and he said it was ok to miss. The obligation to attend obviously supercedes a parade and football game, I just didn’t know what the rules were if you were in a diocese that doesn’t celebrate the day as a HDOO. It would be alot easier if the HDOO were Universal in all countries. I’m not looking to get out of going or anything, it just doesn’t make sense to me that if someone misses mass in PA on Jan 1 they committ mortal sin and if someone does the same thing in LA they committ no sin. At the time, I didn’t think I was doing anything wrong, I guess I know better now if I ever go back.

 

[thistle]

I didn’t miss Mass b/c of the Game per se. I didn’t go because it wasn’t a Holy Day of Obligation in LA for whatever reason. Like I said I asked a priest, albeit, one I didn’t know 2well, and he said it was ok to miss. The obligation to attend obviously supercedes a parade and football game, I just didn’t know what the rules were if you were in a diocese that doesn’t celebrate the day as a HDOO. It would be alot easier if the HDOO were Universal in all countries. I’m not looking to get out of going or anything, it just doesn’t make sense to me that if someone misses mass in PA on Jan 1 they committ mortal sin and if someone does the same thing in LA they committ no sin. At the time, I didn’t think I was doing anything wrong, I guess I know better now if I ever go back.

Jan 1 is a Holy Day of Obligation in the US. The obligation is not transferred to a Sunday.

 

[Ron_Conte]

If it is a Holy Day of Obligation for you at home, it is a HDO wherever you are on the planet.

Not true. Canon Law says the following:

Can. 12 §1. Universal laws bind everywhere all those for whom they were issued.

§2. All who are actually present in a certain territory, however, are exempted from universal laws which are not in force in that territory.

Can. 13 §1. Particular laws are not presumed to be personal but **territorial **unless it is otherwise evident.

§2. Travelers are** not bound**:

1/** by the particular laws of their own territory as long as they are absent from it **unless either the transgression of those laws causes harm in their own territory or the laws are personal;

 

[kage_ar]

Not true. Canon Law says the following:

Can. 12 §1. Universal laws bind everywhere all those for whom they were issued.

§2. All who are actually present in a certain territory, however, are exempted from universal laws which are not in force in that territory.

Can. 13 §1. Particular laws are not presumed to be personal but **territorial **unless it is otherwise evident.

§2. Travelers are** not bound**:

1/** by the particular laws of their own territory as long as they are absent from it **unless either the transgression of those laws causes harm in their own territory or the laws are personal;

That is the letter of the law.

Stand corrected (however, I would never try to “get out” of my HDO when traveling…)

 

[Ron_Conte]

Jan 1 is a Holy Day of Obligation in the US. The obligation is not transferred to a Sunday.

“Whenever January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, or August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption, or November 1, the solemnity of All Saints, falls on a Saturday or on a Monday, the precept to attend Mass is abrogated.”
usccb.org/liturgy/q%26a/general/obligation.shtml

This was the case in 2000, 2001, 2005, and 2007, but not last year or this year.

However, a parish pastor is able to dispense an individual from the obligation to attend Mass on a feast day, for a just reason.

Can. 1245 Without prejudice to the right of diocesan bishops mentioned in can. 87, for a just cause and according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop, a pastor can grant in individual cases a dispensation from the obligation of observing a feast day or a day of penance or can grant a commutation of the obligation into other pious works.

The reason needed is only a just reason, not a grave reason. It is a judgment of the prudential order as to whether or not travel (for whatever reason) would be a just reason.

 

[Apryl]

I try not to get caught up in the red herrings…

… but IS New Year’s Day (January 1) a Holy Day of Obligation in Los Angeles, California, or not?

If it is, then the OP was obligated to attend Mass… wasn’t he?

And if it is not, then he got a pass.

I have issues with people asking priests, and the priest glaze over what is expected. I mean, we ASK because we want to know. To try to ‘play nice’, imo, doesn’t help any one.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I try not to get caught up in the red herrings…

… but IS New Year’s Day (January 1) a Holy Day of Obligation in Los Angeles, California, or not?

If it is, then the OP was obligated to attend Mass… wasn’t he?

And if it is not, then he got a pass.

I have issues with people asking priests, and the priest glaze over what is expected. I mean, we ASK because we want to know. To try to ‘play nice’, imo, doesn’t help any one.

Bishops may, for proper and sufficient pastoral reason, dispense the obligation for a specific holy day of obligation in their diocese for a specific year. This must be done for a specific year; they may not permanently abolish it. Therefore, the Bishops of California dispense the obligation for January 1 in a separate act each year, and have declared their intent to continue to do so. [Nobody asked me my opinion on this, and it is probably best if I don’t give it. ]

 

[Booter]

That was my whole point. A priest told me I was ok to miss. I am not sure how orthodox he was/is. My only part that I actually feel bad about is that I was relived that I didn’t have to explain to my less religious friends that I would have to find a church in LA. I would have went on New Years Eve, but since it wasn’t a HDOO, there was no Vigil Mass. Honestly, though I don’t feel like I didn’t do anything wrong. If the priest told me I still had to go and I chose not 2 go then it would be mortal sin, but he said that it was ok not to go, so I didn’t. If you can’t trust a priest, then who can you trust? I just tend to be scrupulous, that’s why I posted this and to see what is right to do in the future. LA probably has the annual dispension b/c of the thousands who travel to see the parade/game, and those who participate in the event. I’m not saying these are more important than the Solemnity, but why risk having thousands of people sinning because they want to see the Rose parade and the Grand Daddy of them all. It would be better for all if all Holy Days of Obligation were Universal worldwide, but they aren’t. The best thing is to go to all Holy Days regardless but this was an interesting situation. Thank You for your responses.

This was my source…back in January of 09’
la-archdiocese.org/prayer/worship/calendar/holydays.html

 

[thistle]

“Whenever January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, or August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption, or November 1, the solemnity of All Saints, falls on a Saturday or on a Monday, the precept to attend Mass is abrogated.”
usccb.org/liturgy/q%26a/general/obligation.shtml

This was the case in 2000, 2001, 2005, and 2007, but not last year or this year.

However, a parish pastor is able to dispense an individual from the obligation to attend Mass on a feast day, for a just reason.

Can. 1245 Without prejudice to the right of diocesan bishops mentioned in can. 87, for a just cause and according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop, a pastor can grant in individual cases a dispensation from the obligation of observing a feast day or a day of penance or can grant a commutation of the obligation into other pious works.

The reason needed is only a just reason, not a grave reason. It is a judgment of the prudential order as to whether or not travel (for whatever reason) would be a just reason.

I stand corrected.
Here in the Philippines the above-mentioned are days of obligation whatever day they fall on.
Actually the last time Jan 1 fell on a Saturday I happened to attend the Saturday evening Mass and the priest said that Mass was a two for one (i.e. covered the Mary, Mother of God obligation and our Sunday obligation).

 

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[CatholicZ09]

Actually the last time Jan 1 fell on a Saturday I happened to attend the Saturday evening Mass and the priest said that Mass was a two for one (i.e. covered the Mary, Mother of God obligation and our Sunday obligation).

That’s strange. Usually the Masses in the day usually fufill the obligation only for that day. So, the Saturday evening Mass you attended was actually supposed to fufill the Sunday obligation, not the Saturday obligation. The only Masses that would fufill the obligation for Saturday would be a Friday evening Mass or Saturday morning/afternoon Mass. Anything beyond that is for the Sunday obligation.

This I strictly remember because December 8th, 2007 (Feast of the Immaculate Conception) fell on a Saturday and our Pastor explained that only the Friday evening Mass and Saturday morning Mass fufilled the the Saturday obligation. Those Masses DIDN’T fulfill the Sunday obligation.

 

[thistle]

That’s strange. Usually the Masses in the day usually fufill the obligation only for that day. So, the Saturday evening Mass you attended was actually supposed to fufill the Sunday obligation, not the Saturday obligation. The only Masses that would fufill the obligation for Saturday would be a Friday evening Mass or Saturday morning/afternoon Mass. Anything beyond that is for the Sunday obligation.

This I strictly remember because December 8th, 2007 (Feast of the Immaculate Conception) fell on a Saturday and our Pastor explained that only the Friday evening Mass and Saturday morning Mass fufilled the the Saturday obligation. Those Masses DIDN’T fulfill the Sunday obligation.

The priest specifically told us that it fulfilled both obligations and my wife’s relatives at two different parishes were told the same.
He said all Masses on the Saturday fulfilled the Mary, Mother of God obligation and additionally the Saturday evening Mass also fulfilled the Sunday obligation. That’s why he smilled and said everyone at that Mass was getting 2 for 1.
Whether it is correct or not I don’t know but that was three priests in different parishes who said that.
If there is some documentation I could be referred to that would help and I could take it up with the priest.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

Thus a Saturday evening mass can satisfy the obligation for Saturday - *on the feast day itself - *or for Sunday - *in the evening of the preceding day . *However, I have seen arguments for and against the belief that one mass can satisfy both. It appears that there is a valid uncertainty; so I think one can legitimately follow either. For my self, it feels like game-playing, and I would participate in two masses.

 

[thistle]

Thus a Saturday evening mass can satisfy the obligation for Saturday - on the feast day itself - or for Sunday - in the evening of the preceding day . However, I have seen arguments for and against the belief that one mass can satisfy both. It appears that there is a valid uncertainty; so I think one can legitimately follow either. For my self, it feels like game-playing, and I would participate in two masses.

I agree.

 

[Kathrin]

I got to an evening mass once on a Holy Day that had fallen on a Saturday, and a priest there said if I chose to use it as my Hold Day obligation that was ok.
I did go to another mass on Sunday though.

Kathrin

p.s. As for travelling. Do you have to have a rpiest’s extra personal permission if you think you are going to miss mass? Or is there a general rule for travelors?